[kreativebug]

Hi. I bought a Figo Diesel Zxi this June from Harpreet Ford, Delhi. At the time of delivery, I got the usual steel rims for original Ford alloys. I have clocked 13000 kms till now, including 3 self drive trips to Chandigarh, Kasauli/Chail and Dehradun.

The second service was done by the same dealer's service shop in end October earlier this year at 10000 odd kms. However, I had been getting a cranking (metal against metal sound) while braking for some time now and I did highlight the same to the service advisor during the second service. He said the problem had been taken care of and was not a serious concern. Honestly, I did not bother to ask much as there was no sound for a few days.

In mid November, I got the cranking sound again and it was bad at times when braking. It did get me concerned now, but did not check the discs at that point of time. Last week, the sound was real bad and when I had a good look at the discs and found that the right disc (drivers's side) was completely worn out (scratched all over / lines all around). I called up the dealer and spoke to one of the service advisor. He advised me to visit him immediately and assured me that since there was a 20000 kms warranty on the discs, he will get the same replaced if required.

Finally, I visited the dealer today and without much hassles, he organised to replace both the discs under warranty and said I just need to pay for the brake pads and also offered me a complimentary washing. I agreed.

The twist came when at the time of delivery, the advisor asked me repeatedly whether the alloys were after market and had been fitted from outside. I told him that they were original ford and were bought at the time of delivery of the vehicle itself. He wasn't convinced and hence I had to make him speak to the sales person who had attended me during my vehicle purchase - to vouch for me.

When I asked what was the possible reason for the damage to the disc, I was told that "since I had replaced the rims with the alloys - the wheels were not running balanced and hence the disc was damaged." He added that "there are separate discs for the figo with alloys and figo with steel rims." I was confused and told him that I did not buy the logic being given by him and was not convinced. He took me to the spares shop where I was shown the 2 different packs for discs with different product codes for alloys and normal rims. This confused me further, but I was still not convinced as my bro-in-law has been driving around a figo for 3 years on which he had put after market alloys. He has clocked 50000 kms without any problem.

It further got interesting when the spares shop in-charge told me (after he checked the code of discs for my car) that ford was also putting the discs used for 'Ikon' on the Figo. This raises a few questions:

1. Why did the dealer not share that if alloys were being put in place of usual rims, the discs too need to be upgraded ?

2. Are there really a different pair of discs for alloys and rims (as in the material / quality) ? And if yes, why does not every other person installing alloys on their cars face a problem ? (I don't know anyone with this problem)

However, I still don't have the answer to my question .. Why did the disc get damaged ?

And the logic given by the service advisors in this dealership atleast does not convince me.

Any answers friends ??

[BinFord]

Originally Posted by kreativebug

Hi. I bought a Figo Diesel Zxi this June from Harpreet Ford, Delhi. At the time of delivery, I got the usual steel rims for

Any answers friends ??

Hi kreativebug

I am not sure about the authenticity of the statement by the ASC.I am driving a FORD IKON TDCI and I have changed my steel rims to aftermarket alloys a year ago and I did not face any issues till.

Initially after I took delivery with the stock pads I found excessive carbon deposits after a long drive. When checked with ASC they said it was normal and nothing to bother. However I changed my brake pads at 25000 Kms and till now at 60000 kms I did not face an issue with and without alloys.

[MetalBuff]

Hello Pawanjot,

The explanation given by the Ford guys really got me thinking for a moment as well. I don't think i am convinced and buy their story. Not surprisingly, even you don't, which doesn't leave me alone in the crowd .

Since when did anything apart from the PCD start creating any potential problems for alloys (Over-sized tires might)? And, if the balancing was SO off (as determined from the magnitude), you would have definitely known from the vibrations. Did you feel any abnormal vibrations not only during breaking but under normal runs as well?

I can attribute it to the rubber of the brake pads being worn out which explains the scratch marks on the disc and the metal screeching sound on braking (metal to metal exposure). The wearing out might either be due to slight contact with the disc or deterioration due to poor quality

The experts as well as fellow mates with similar experiences can also help us out here.

[kreativebug]

Hi. I also don't agree with the logic given by the service personnel at the dealership. Alloys or Steel Rims - it really is an independent thing from the brakes.

My brother in law has been driving a Figo TDCi for almost 3 years now and also switched to after market alloys much later. He has driven close to 50000 kms and no problems at all still.

I am really wondering as to what could have been a possible cause.

I have also written to Ford Cust Care on the matter and they promptly asked me for the Chassis / VIN number to investigate further. Lets' see if they come up with an answer.

Cheers
Pawanjot

[tharian]

Originally Posted by kreativebug

Hi. I bought a Figo Diesel Zxi this June from Harpreet Ford, Delhi. At the time of delivery, I got the usual steel rims for original Ford alloys. I have clocked 13000 kms till now, including 3 self drive trips to Chandigarh, Kasauli/Chail and Dehradun.


Any answers friends ??

kreativebug, the SA is giving you a load of bull, which good you did not agree to.

AFAIK, the two sizes of discs up front is for ABS and Non-ABS versions and has nothing to do with alloys. Even if it was, you have Ford alloys fixed from the Ford Service Center who should have informed you in the first place if this was even true.

Brake grinding noise is usual on Figo's and in my case, I chose to ignore becuase I know the service center will give me a story becuase of the Non-Ford tyres and alloys. In your case it could be dirt on the pads or not a well fixed pad, nothing to do with the wheels. Having said that, the grinding stops after few kms of driving and the pads have not been replaced in 20k kms on my car.

Good that they replaced the discs under warranty, but you need not listen to the rest regardings alloys etc.

[GTO]

Why did the disc get damaged ?

Could be one of several reasons. In your case, it appears to be a case of defective quality discs, pads or both (defective pads can damage the disc). In others, driving on worn out pads or having a stone trapped between the pad & disc can also cause severe damage to the brake disc, and the sound you reported.

Brake components are seldom replaced under warranty. Just the fact that the dealer easily agreed to means that your OEM parts were defective. You should feel good that they are replacing and not skimming the discs.

Originally Posted by kreativebug

Are there really a different pair of discs for alloys and rims (as in the material / quality) ? And if yes, why does not every other person installing alloys on their cars face a problem ? (I don't know anyone with this problem)

In his dreams.

The reason you saw different part numbers for alloy / non-alloy Figo discs is this : The ABS-equipped Figo comes with larger front discs (258 mm) and rear drums (203 mm), compared to 239 mm / 180 mm for the non-ABS models.

It's only the Figo Titanium that has ABS & Disc Brakes. Therefore, the different disc is because of the ABS trim level and not alloy wheels.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by kreativebug

However, I still don't have the answer to my question .. Why did the disc get damaged ?

This is atleast the 5th time, I'm seeing defective quality brake pads creating issues with brake discs. IMO, your issue was due to defective quality brake pads. ie, the pads were of very hard compound and hence, instead of them wearing out it was the brake disc that's wearing out!

[bijuiser]

Having owned a Ikon in the past and now Figo, I have found the Ford Service to be very generous in replacements within warranty. But as GTO rightly pointed out- you now know that you don't want the same service adviser next time you take you car to the service center.

[F150]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

This is atleast the 5th time, I'm seeing defective quality brake pads creating issues with brake discs. IMO, your issue was due to defective quality brake pads. ie, the pads were of very hard compound and hence, instead of them wearing out it was the brake disc that's wearing out!

Is that possible ? Discs are steel. Defective Brake pads material stronger than steel ?

kreativebug,

Please post pics. It is difficult to visualize the issue. Alloys have nothing to do with discs wearing out. In fact alloy wheels are lighter than steel rims.

[pranavt]

Worn out pads will destroy good rotors very quickly.

[Blow Horn Ok]

Were the alloys balanced before fitment? Were you experiencing any shake/shudder at higher speeds?

[kreativebug]

Originally Posted by MetalBuff

Hello Pawanjot,

The explanation given by the Ford guys really got me thinking for a moment as well. I don't think i am convinced and buy their story. Not surprisingly, even you don't, which doesn't leave me alone in the crowd .

Since when did anything apart from the PCD start creating any potential problems for alloys (Over-sized tires might)? And, if the balancing was SO off (as determined from the magnitude), you would have definitely known from the vibrations. Did you feel any abnormal vibrations not only during breaking but under normal runs as well?

I can attribute it to the rubber of the brake pads being worn out which explains the scratch marks on the disc and the metal screeching sound on braking (metal to metal exposure). The wearing out might either be due to slight contact with the disc or deterioration due to poor quality

The experts as well as fellow mates with similar experiences can also help us out here.

Hi. No mate, I did not have any problems with the balancing and there were no vibrations at all. The ride quality, apart from the braking was pretty much spot on. The first thought of metal to metal sound also made me think about the brake pads giving away. But then I was really wondering if it was the case when I have just driven just about 13000 kms.

Originally Posted by tharian

kreativebug, the SA is giving you a load of bull, which good you did not agree to.

AFAIK, the two sizes of discs up front is for ABS and Non-ABS versions and has nothing to do with alloys. Even if it was, you have Ford alloys fixed from the Ford Service Center who should have informed you in the first place if this was even true.

Brake grinding noise is usual on Figo's and in my case, I chose to ignore becuase I know the service center will give me a story becuase of the Non-Ford tyres and alloys. In your case it could be dirt on the pads or not a well fixed pad, nothing to do with the wheels. Having said that, the grinding stops after few kms of driving and the pads have not been replaced in 20k kms on my car.

Good that they replaced the discs under warranty, but you need not listen to the rest regardings alloys etc.

That was the whole point I grilled the service adviser. If the discs need to be changed at all with the alloys (as he said there is a separate "quality"), why was it not informed to me at the time of delivery and when I was getting the alloys for usual rims. I actually threatened him under RTI. But, on a serious note I think the grinding sound is a peculiar problem in Figo. Though I hope I am wrong about other's experiences with this car.

Originally Posted by GTO

Could be one of several reasons. In your case, it appears to be a case of defective quality discs, pads or both (defective pads can damage the disc). In others, driving on worn out pads or having a stone trapped between the pad & disc can also cause severe damage to the brake disc, and the sound you reported. Brake components are seldom replaced under warranty. Just the fact that the dealer easily agreed to means that your OEM parts were defective. You should feel good that they are replacing and not skimming the discs.

The reason you saw different part numbers for alloy / non-alloy Figo discs is this : The ABS-equipped Figo comes with larger front discs (258 mm) and rear drums (203 mm), compared to 239 mm / 180 mm for the non-ABS models. It's only the Figo Titanium that has ABS & Disc Brakes. Therefore, the different disc is because of the ABS trim level and not alloy wheels.

Thanks GTO. I don't think that dirt or a stone stuck could be a problem in my case as the disc was worn out evenly and it wasn't just a couple or grinding marks.

I guess your explanation does make sense to me about the two product types and it might be because of the ABS equipped Titanium, as it has standard alloys. That is possibly the differential between two kinds of discs. Now, I understand that the service adviser had no clue at all about it.

Originally Posted by F150

Is that possible ? Discs are steel. Defective Brake pads material stronger than steel ?

kreativebug,

Please post pics. It is difficult to visualize the issue. Alloys have nothing to do with discs wearing out. In fact alloy wheels are lighter than steel rims.

Hi. I seriously wish I had pics, but unfortunately I don't. I never thought that I would get such a lousy explanation from the dealer - but it was the case. And I had to come to this forum to try and get an understanding if what he told me had any logic to it.

[Catalyst_delhi]

Originally Posted by kreativebug

He took me to the spares shop where I was shown the 2 different packs for discs with different product codes for alloys and normal rims. This confused me further, but I was still not convinced as my bro-in-law has been driving around a figo for 3 years on which he had put after market alloys. He has clocked 50000 kms without any problem.

It is a good thing to read up service manuals to filter out such mis-information. I think the service manual for the Figo is available here.

[kreativebug]

Originally Posted by Blow Horn Ok

Were the alloys balanced before fitment? Were you experiencing any shake/shudder at higher speeds?

Hi. Yes they were. Indeed, I had got the balancing, alignment and wheel rotation done at the time of second service just a month back at 10000 kms. And last week only, I went to Dehradun. There was no shudder or shudder at high speeds - I notched 100-110 as well on the Meerut bye-pass. It was only the breaking that was making a sound.

And Yes -I was also told that the discs on my car were of Ikon - previous ones as well the new ones.

Sorry, that I skipped it earlier. Now, I don't know if that is the case too.

[kreativebug]

Finally, Ford admitted that it was not because of the Alloy Wheels that the Discs got damaged by probably a manufacturing defect which is a rare case. Enclosed is the reply received from them on the matter.

================================
Dear Sir,

This mail is in subsequent to our earlier correspondence regarding your vehicle bearing registration number DL10CF0492 .

Further to our telecom we had with your good self on 18.12.2012, We apologies on behalf of our dealership for lapses, We wish to inform you that our service team along with our regional office has taken up this issue with our dealership on a serious note. Feedback such as yours allows us to examine our practices and policies to ensure that we meet or exceed the expectations of our customers in the future. We understand from our dealership that the part( brake disc ) replaced under warranty and delivered to your good self. We also wish to inform you that any failure of part/component in the car which can be attributed to a manufacturing defect can be repaired or replaced ( depending on the serviceability of the part/ component) as per the terms and conditions of the warranty policy. We request you to drive the vehicle with complete confidence on the product and give us the feedback.

Please feel free to contact us / Mr. Rohit @ 9582940101 for any other clarifications /assistance.
Assuring you of our best services and continuous support at all times.

Thanks and Regard,
Bindhu
FIL - Customer Relations,
1800-425-2500 BSNL/MTNL 6000-2500 Add STD code of your state capital
==============================

The lady (Bindhu) had a detailed con call with me along with the Service Head from the dealership - Harpreet Ford. He apologized and said that the service team did not guide me correctly and also admitted that this replacement was due to a manufacturing defect and had nothing to do with the alloys.

But this raises another question ...

Don't these dealerships need to be sure of the training imparted to their service team and have the same conducted in more detail by auto mobile manufacturers ? What kind of guidance can people like these provide to the customers ?

cheers