RPM Surges-Throttle Body Cleaning

Vid6639 · 25th September 2006, 20:49

i have a similar problem in my alto too. but the problem is not at idle it happens only when the AC is switched on.
when in 1st or second gear if i back of the throttle after accelerating the car while slowing down at a particular rpm suddenly jerks forward. if by chance at this point i press the gas it really gives a bad jerk. i am not able to understand as to why this happens.
i have shown it to 2 maruthi authorised service centres here and both say the cars fine and one of them has even checked up the ECU by connecting it to the tec-2 equipment and havent found anything wrong.
its a small but noticeable jerk but i would prefer it not being there.

elf · 26th September 2006, 10:42

@vid6639: If you have the 800cc Alto, your problem is mine! Wifey's car has the same damn thing.

Took it to the Maruti dealership, who first tried say that there's no problem at all, then tried to fob it of as a clutch problem, then said that it's an A/c problem. One service idiot even told us that this happens because the Alto is underpowered.

I gave up on them.

Got the Alto's injectors cleaned, problem died down a bit.

Vid6639 · 26th September 2006, 11:32

yup the 800cc alto Lxi. it gets irritating at times especially in stop go traffic. they have also done valve clearance but still teh problem persists.
even all the sensors have been checked and they say no problems with that. these chaps here keep saying there is no issues and its fine. the worst part is its very difficult to show them exactly when the jerk occurs.
the cars under warranty for another month and this problem has been happening for a long time.
should i clean the injectors? the cars just under a year old.
i was thinking of going for the K&N stock filters but wasnt sure if the warranty would be void if i did that.
so far spark plugs have been cleaned, air filter and fuel filter checked, clutch checked, valve clearance done but the problem still persists.

elf · 26th September 2006, 19:42

Before you do the mods you mentioned, simply hang on till your warranty expires. During the month that you have left, chew the living crap out of every Maruti dealer you like, as well as contact your Maruti regional customer support & try explaining the problem to them. Also, in my opinion, hanging around with a service technician / supervisor & slipping him 500 bucks when he's test driving your ride may help him see & replicate your problem, & therefore diagnose & fix it.

Our Alto has an extended warranty which my father-in-law chose when he bought the car. After the responses from Spectra Motors here in Bombay (sent the car to them twice), I simply gave up & am using my garage to do whatever, & I pay the damn costs happily - it's less of a headache than dealing with illiterate / deaf donkeys.

If you're in Bangalore, try contacting some helpful TBHP members there (according to me, every one of them) & see what they say.

All the best.

wolfinstein · 26th September 2006, 21:03

@ Vid..! First thing first, See if you can also extend the warranty- Buy the extension from the dealer.
Second, Get the Injectors checked and see if they need cleaning, Has your engine gone for a Flush treatement, Get that done + Throttle body cleaned up also.
About the K&N, It works for some and for some like they say Waste ! I don't know its still a Myth for me, See if this cleaning process helps solve the issue. It did for my lancer..!

Vid6639 · 16th October 2006, 20:39

Ok so finally i went to mandovi motors here to get evrything sorted out regarding the jerking.

After an extended test drive with the technician as well as me driving. He says there is no problem in the car.
i showed him the point at which the car jerks and when he drove he says it seems fine.

Nonetheless he offered to get it checked.

Other than the jerking i had also told him of some grinding sound from the tranny when at a highe rgear but less speed. This he informed me was due to a faulty clutch plate in a few of the '05 models. He said he would replace this under warranty.

Today i went to collect the car. When i went for a short drive the car did feel better due to the new clutch but the jerking was still there.

I spoke to the main engineer with whom i went for another drive. He also tried to convince me that the car was perfectly alright. Since i wasnt convinced he offered to take me for a drive with the tech2 attached to the car so i colud see the graph for the IAC(idle air control) and injection timing.

The graph showed everything to be normal with no errors.
So now i have got the injectors cleaned, plugs cleaned, valve clearance done and tappets adjusted new clutch and still the problem persists. He also says the throttle body is clean.

What could it possible be?

Also i just checked i too have the extended 3rd year warranty till 2008.

wolfinstein · 16th October 2006, 23:44

Maybe just wait a few more days, Rather I suggest don't drive her for some time..! It may be all in the head...A few days change will give you a fresh start..! Since you've done all that there was + TECH 2 is almost accurate..!

Vid6639 · 27th October 2006, 09:43

Guys the car still jerks. I've confirmed this again by driving a friends alto which doenst give the same jerk.
My car feels a lot smoother now after the clutch was changed but theres still that annoying jerk when you back off the gas and press it again. The engine braking also is not at all linear if i back of the gas in 2nd/3rd gear. the jerk appears to be because of this.
I'm guessing its the IAC valve or the throttle body but both have been thouroghly checked with tech2 at maruti in my presence.

elf · 27th October 2006, 10:55

@vid6639: My clutch too was allegedly changed by Spectra Motors under warranty. The problem subsided substantially for a short period of time, but it's back again, & it's so bad it feels like a hobbyhorse!

It goes away every time I get the injectors cleaned. The problem isn't dirty fuel - it's the same pump (Shell @ Bandra)with the same dispenser always. Going to get wifey to shift to HP Power now to see if that makes a difference. I really wish Maruti would iron out this bug - it's a darned nuisance in traffic.

nitrous · 27th October 2006, 11:09

Quote:

theres still that annoying jerk when you back off the gas and press it again.

Check ignition coil.

Vid6639 · 27th October 2006, 11:12

Yeah elf maybe i should try HP power too. I've used only shell from the same bunk ever since i got the car.
I really dont think the injectors are dirty, i got them cleaned and although it reduced a lilttle but still didnt go away.
Also if the fuel is not right shouldnt idling also be a little awry. its only while driving.
There's one jerk which cant be sorted out and thats the jerk when the AC compressor cuts off then on again. The maruti said this cant be sorted out as all altos have this defect and maruti hasnt fixed it yet.
I am sure this is not the AC compressor jerk. this is definitely in stop go traffic and due to something else.

How about yours, have you seen if its due to the AC cut on?

elf · 27th October 2006, 11:17

@vid6639: The A/c only compounds the problem. If Maruti has acknowledged the problem, you should get it in writing from them before your warranty runs out.

Spectra had also mentioned something like "this car is like that only because it's underpowered" which is when I freaked out at them!

@nitrous: Don't think it's the igniter coils, though thanks for your advice, & I will get that checked as well. The pickup, power delivery & idle seem to be alright. It's only when moving in bumper-to-bumper traffic that this problem arises, adding to one's frustration with the situation at hand.

Vid6639 · 27th October 2006, 12:45

Okay so looks like the same problem as the AC only compounds it for me too.
Good point, should take the AC jerk from them in writing.

Underpowered is crap from them.

If the ignition coil had a problem im guessing the timing wouldn't be proper and so too the idling and power delivery.
Also it should show up on the tech2. may not be the coil but ill also get it checked.

ownerofazkaban · 10th November 2006, 11:27

I had this problem, but it seems mitigated after this...

-->I asked the SA to completely remove the clutch & accelerator cables,
grease them and re-apply them. It's something to do with clutch, but am not sure if it's related to clutch plate or push rodes :(. Get all moving joints where you connect the end of cluch cable inside the bonnet greased.

After they have done this, the issue seems to be mitigated. It's more if you put in 1st, 2nd gear and get your foot off the clutch and try cruising at around 20kmph ... it should be really smooth, can really make out very clearly on the jerk before.

Takumi-san · 6th October 2009, 08:12

*bump* I think I roughly understand what the throttle body is all about thanks to this thread , but how often should it be cleaned? Does it necessarily have to be during every service (3 to 6 months) for a Maruti Esteem (2005 model)?

Cuz every time that I have given my car for service to vitesse, these charges are definitely added onto my bill and they are not insignificant either.

25th September 2006, 20:49	#16
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,477 Times View My Garage	i have a similar problem in my alto too. but the problem is not at idle it happens only when the AC is switched on. when in 1st or second gear if i back of the throttle after accelerating the car while slowing down at a particular rpm suddenly jerks forward. if by chance at this point i press the gas it really gives a bad jerk. i am not able to understand as to why this happens. i have shown it to 2 maruthi authorised service centres here and both say the cars fine and one of them has even checked up the ECU by connecting it to the tec-2 equipment and havent found anything wrong. its a small but noticeable jerk but i would prefer it not being there.
	() Thanks

26th September 2006, 10:42	#17
elf BANNED Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	@vid6639: If you have the 800cc Alto, your problem is mine! Wifey's car has the same damn thing. Took it to the Maruti dealership, who first tried say that there's no problem at all, then tried to fob it of as a clutch problem, then said that it's an A/c problem. One service idiot even told us that this happens because the Alto is underpowered. I gave up on them. Got the Alto's injectors cleaned, problem died down a bit.
	() Thanks

26th September 2006, 11:32	#18
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,477 Times View My Garage	yup the 800cc alto Lxi. it gets irritating at times especially in stop go traffic. they have also done valve clearance but still teh problem persists. even all the sensors have been checked and they say no problems with that. these chaps here keep saying there is no issues and its fine. the worst part is its very difficult to show them exactly when the jerk occurs. the cars under warranty for another month and this problem has been happening for a long time. should i clean the injectors? the cars just under a year old. i was thinking of going for the K&N stock filters but wasnt sure if the warranty would be void if i did that. so far spark plugs have been cleaned, air filter and fuel filter checked, clutch checked, valve clearance done but the problem still persists.
	() Thanks

26th September 2006, 19:42	#19
elf BANNED Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	Before you do the mods you mentioned, simply hang on till your warranty expires. During the month that you have left, chew the living crap out of every Maruti dealer you like, as well as contact your Maruti regional customer support & try explaining the problem to them. Also, in my opinion, hanging around with a service technician / supervisor & slipping him 500 bucks when he's test driving your ride may help him see & replicate your problem, & therefore diagnose & fix it. Our Alto has an extended warranty which my father-in-law chose when he bought the car. After the responses from Spectra Motors here in Bombay (sent the car to them twice), I simply gave up & am using my garage to do whatever, & I pay the damn costs happily - it's less of a headache than dealing with illiterate / deaf donkeys. If you're in Bangalore, try contacting some helpful TBHP members there (according to me, every one of them) & see what they say. All the best. Last edited by elf : 26th September 2006 at 19:44.
	() Thanks

26th September 2006, 21:03	#20
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	@ Vid..! First thing first, See if you can also extend the warranty- Buy the extension from the dealer. Second, Get the Injectors checked and see if they need cleaning, Has your engine gone for a Flush treatement, Get that done + Throttle body cleaned up also. About the K&N, It works for some and for some like they say Waste ! I don't know its still a Myth for me, See if this cleaning process helps solve the issue. It did for my lancer..!
	() Thanks

16th October 2006, 20:39	#21
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,477 Times View My Garage	Ok so finally i went to mandovi motors here to get evrything sorted out regarding the jerking. After an extended test drive with the technician as well as me driving. He says there is no problem in the car. i showed him the point at which the car jerks and when he drove he says it seems fine. Nonetheless he offered to get it checked. Other than the jerking i had also told him of some grinding sound from the tranny when at a highe rgear but less speed. This he informed me was due to a faulty clutch plate in a few of the '05 models. He said he would replace this under warranty. Today i went to collect the car. When i went for a short drive the car did feel better due to the new clutch but the jerking was still there. I spoke to the main engineer with whom i went for another drive. He also tried to convince me that the car was perfectly alright. Since i wasnt convinced he offered to take me for a drive with the tech2 attached to the car so i colud see the graph for the IAC(idle air control) and injection timing. The graph showed everything to be normal with no errors. So now i have got the injectors cleaned, plugs cleaned, valve clearance done and tappets adjusted new clutch and still the problem persists. He also says the throttle body is clean. What could it possible be? Also i just checked i too have the extended 3rd year warranty till 2008.
	() Thanks

16th October 2006, 23:44	#22
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	Maybe just wait a few more days, Rather I suggest don't drive her for some time..! It may be all in the head...A few days change will give you a fresh start..! Since you've done all that there was + TECH 2 is almost accurate..!
	() Thanks

27th October 2006, 09:43	#23
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,477 Times View My Garage	Guys the car still jerks. I've confirmed this again by driving a friends alto which doenst give the same jerk. My car feels a lot smoother now after the clutch was changed but theres still that annoying jerk when you back off the gas and press it again. The engine braking also is not at all linear if i back of the gas in 2nd/3rd gear. the jerk appears to be because of this. I'm guessing its the IAC valve or the throttle body but both have been thouroghly checked with tech2 at maruti in my presence.
	() Thanks

27th October 2006, 10:55	#24
elf BANNED Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	@vid6639: My clutch too was allegedly changed by Spectra Motors under warranty. The problem subsided substantially for a short period of time, but it's back again, & it's so bad it feels like a hobbyhorse! It goes away every time I get the injectors cleaned. The problem isn't dirty fuel - it's the same pump (Shell @ Bandra)with the same dispenser always. Going to get wifey to shift to HP Power now to see if that makes a difference. I really wish Maruti would iron out this bug - it's a darned nuisance in traffic.
	() Thanks

27th October 2006, 11:12	#26
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,477 Times View My Garage	Yeah elf maybe i should try HP power too. I've used only shell from the same bunk ever since i got the car. I really dont think the injectors are dirty, i got them cleaned and although it reduced a lilttle but still didnt go away. Also if the fuel is not right shouldnt idling also be a little awry. its only while driving. There's one jerk which cant be sorted out and thats the jerk when the AC compressor cuts off then on again. The maruti said this cant be sorted out as all altos have this defect and maruti hasnt fixed it yet. I am sure this is not the AC compressor jerk. this is definitely in stop go traffic and due to something else. How about yours, have you seen if its due to the AC cut on?
	() Thanks

27th October 2006, 11:17	#27
elf BANNED Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	@vid6639: The A/c only compounds the problem. If Maruti has acknowledged the problem, you should get it in writing from them before your warranty runs out. Spectra had also mentioned something like "this car is like that only because it's underpowered" which is when I freaked out at them! @nitrous: Don't think it's the igniter coils, though thanks for your advice, & I will get that checked as well. The pickup, power delivery & idle seem to be alright. It's only when moving in bumper-to-bumper traffic that this problem arises, adding to one's frustration with the situation at hand.
	() Thanks

27th October 2006, 12:45	#28
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,477 Times View My Garage	Okay so looks like the same problem as the AC only compounds it for me too. Good point, should take the AC jerk from them in writing. Underpowered is crap from them. If the ignition coil had a problem im guessing the timing wouldn't be proper and so too the idling and power delivery. Also it should show up on the tech2. may not be the coil but ill also get it checked.
	() Thanks

10th November 2006, 11:27	#29
ownerofazkaban BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: BLR Posts: 456 Thanked: 80 Times View My Garage	try this I had this problem, but it seems mitigated after this... -->I asked the SA to completely remove the clutch & accelerator cables, grease them and re-apply them. It's something to do with clutch, but am not sure if it's related to clutch plate or push rodes :(. Get all moving joints where you connect the end of cluch cable inside the bonnet greased. After they have done this, the issue seems to be mitigated. It's more if you put in 1st, 2nd gear and get your foot off the clutch and try cruising at around 20kmph ... it should be really smooth, can really make out very clearly on the jerk before.
	() Thanks

6th October 2009, 08:12	#30
Takumi-san BHPian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Melbourne Posts: 368 Thanked: 121 Times View My Garage	bump I think I roughly understand what the throttle body is all about thanks to this thread , but how often should it be cleaned? Does it necessarily have to be during every service (3 to 6 months) for a Maruti Esteem (2005 model)? Cuz every time that I have given my car for service to vitesse, these charges are definitely added onto my bill and they are not insignificant either.
	() Thanks