Read my opening post again, this thread was not intended to be a discourse solely on boxer engines – just one paragraph in twelve mentioned their superior balance and other characteristics. I was attempting to point out that as the internal combustion engine of the motor car gets older, it has not necessarily become more refined, rather it has been engineered to be as cheap to produce as possible, with a sufficient amount of refinement (aided by much sound proofing and vibration-absorbing mounts) to keep the public from demanding better. But that for those interested in different engines, the inline four or V6 isn’t the limit of human achievement. Money is invested where the profit returns are greatest and as pointed out, the cost of a boxer engine doesn’t necessarily justify its use.
I’m sorry you have decided to remove yourself, Sutripta. I see this forum as one for the English word and recounting real-world experience, rather than one written and explained in physics or maths. It is intended for everyone, not solely for those with a ready understanding of high-level physics, maths and engineering. I write for everyone on here, not just those with maths or physics degrees.
The motor car and its engines however are all engineering, physics, maths and other science - as well as a little bit of art – but motoring is all about the
interaction of human with machine. This is what Team-BHP has to say: “
Here... honest reviews, news, opinions and analysis. Team-BHP began as an inchoate dream of a handful of motorheads who live by their passion for cars.” I firmly believe that the seat of the pants is a better judge than pages of equations and sums – if this weren’t the case then there would be no need for test drivers. We are all different, so will all appreciate different aspects of design.
I didn’t give a detailed mathematical explanation for the superiority of a boxer engine since the debate is, in my opinion, more complex than just the primary and secondary forces and the use of balancer shafts to cancel these out. Equally, I didn’t attempt to give a mathematical explanation for my suggestion that varying forces pushing down on the piston may add to the imbalance of some engines, the maths would be horrendously complex. It would also have taken a day at least to brush up on my physics and read all the relevant papers, then regurgitate it on here. As you say, it is all out there online for those prepared to do the donkey work.
This lack of maths explanation obviously upset both yourself and Jeroen. You seem more concerned with the fact that I have opinions which you don’t appreciate and that I don’t dance to your demands for mathematical explanations. Your own words suggest that your issue with all this is not that boxer engines are of superior design in terms of balance, but that you disagreed with my interpretation of some of the physics. Your question did receive a reply, but not in maths.
Sutripra:
“So what is it that I'm objecting to? Certainly not engine designs. Please note that my last post was a question about your interpretation of mechanics/ physics. To which we have not yet got a reply. (Could it be because there can be no reply? Let me say that you and I have very different engineering ideas.)” "In my opinion, you present every opinion of yours (and you have a whole lot of them) as fact. And don't take well to someone having a different opinion."
You're utterly and completely wrong with your second statement above, I love people to have opinions which are as robust as my own, then there can be some good debate had – if they can argue their point, in English. On a motoring forum I prefer the debate in English, not Maths. But when a general engine thread such as this is peppered with requests for high level mathematical proofs (when you yourself acknowledge the fact inherent superior balance of a boxer engine) and comparisons of 150mph Jaguars with pre-war rustic peoples’ cars in an attempt to justify quality of engine configuration then I start to feel as if the thread is deliberately being disrupted for its own sake, because you find my words not to your own taste.
Sutripta:
“
Nice and terse! But what happened to your command over language, your ability to post paragraphs over simple points.”
Your sarcasm here appears to point to your objection of my use of a certain word. And possibly a difference in culture between England and India? The word I assume you are referring to is quite acceptable in everyday English, in Britain, and I didn’t use it gratuitously. If I am right about this, then I don’t imagine you can bear to watch ‘Top Gear’!
I also will make the point that describing something with maths and physics formulę and models does not give to whole picture, since things are simplified to make it easier and to give the essence of the situation. Human hearing and feel is, if at all educated, able to pick up aspects which figures do not – a tiny vibration or a particularly quiet sound may become hugely irritating and tiring after many hours at the wheel. I have driven the smoothest ‘ordinary’ engines and find that they tire much more than a boxer over a day’s driving, especially if this is at speed. I myself find the difference quite extraordinary, which is why I bothered mentioning it in the first place. Rather wish I hadn’t bothered, now!
Here are a few quotes, which seem to support my opnions on boxer engines as fact:
http://www.e31.net/engines_e.html - good diagrams as well as text
http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ne/smooth2.htm
Referring to the inline four: “What about the resultant upward / downward vibration ? It seems that the movement of piston 1 is counter balanced by piston 2, while piston 3 counters piston 4. However, this is just skin-deep. More professional speaking, that just proves the balance of 1st order force. The second order force (which can be derived from equation) is normally much smaller than the 1st order force and it is rotating at twice the frequency of the 1st order force. Nevertheless, the configuration of inline-4 actually multiplies the magnitude of 2nd order force thus making it hard to be ignored, especially is for larger engines.
All boxer engines, regardless of no. of cylinders, provide perfect balance because the movement of a piston is exactly counter by the corresponding piston in another bank. However, they are too wide for good packaging, and is more expensive due to more parts used, thus the usage is limited to Porsche and Subaru today.