The Low cost fuel of the future.

rahul_intlad · 4th October 2006, 09:29

Actually doing some research on this regard and would like to know team-bhp members views regarding what the vehicle of the future will be powered by.

1>.Today almost everybody is veering towards a diesel to lower their fuel costs,but would diesel continue to remain the same favourite in 5-10 years when cng would be present in most major towns.Would governments ban diesel vehicles from plying altogether from metros like delhi.

2.>What is the future of Cng.Would it be possible to provide CNG at all petrol pumps acrosss india.Is this the fuel we have been looking for.

3>.Lpg is also in the race but somehow is not catching up as expected,any particular reasons.

4>.We have electric cars like reva,Would we have ferraris powered by electric power.

5>.Hydrogen celled vehicles,which give expel water as its waste product,although expensive now can this be put into mass production vehicles at the cost of say a maruti 800.

6>.Biofuel vehicles,Hybrid vehicles

And now the main reason why i have put this up in the technical section.I have come across numerous queries on the internet where diesel engines are fitted with an LPG cylinder is possible or not,can anybody give a good answer.Some say yes and others no who is correct?

Also is it possible to retrofit a cng unit to a diesel engine ,and have the vehicle running on both cng as well as diesel alternatively after that[a bi-fuel vehicle].

wolfinstein · 5th October 2006, 12:11

Rahul, I Think the next Fuel Tech will be a varied one..the future lies on non fossil fuel systems such as Fuel Cell Tech,Solar Tech..! Once Fuel cell are made popular there will be no looking back on Fossil fuels.

CNG- Will pick up nationwide distribution since there are 2 major pipeline projects bringing the gas from Kazakistan via Pakistan and Big deal between Qatar and India. Along with these Reliance and ONGC have found the worlds largest Natural Gas basin reserve in Krishna Godavri basin and a new sector off Bombay High. These finds and deals are leading to infrastructure development of Gas supply for both CNG in Cars and PNG for Domestic house use.

LPG will always remain dependent on Petro refinement systems, since its a by product of Petro refinement.The distribution channel is being improved however it will remain limited to be supplied by Tankers and not Piped gas route since LPG is more inflameable at room temp, and is heavier so does not dissipate in the air easily.

Jatropha-Bio Diesal is becoming popular, However it will be some time before we see Jatropha being sold commercially all across india, currently Jatropha is being sold in Districts of Maharastra and Govt of India is promoting Jatropha cultivation all across.

Electric Cars such as REVA were flops in Metro cities since the distance were more than REVA could manage with One charge, However the development on Electric cars is that now when you brake the car the dynamo gets charged and allows more power for some more Km's..but really don't think Electric cars would work for a person who travels a lot around town.

CNG systems can be retrofitted onto a Diesel Engine, However it is more expensive process compared with the same on Petrol Engine + it involves in Bore drilling and some more methods..but it is possible.

jat · 5th October 2006, 19:33

As said by wolfinstein, there are many different possbilities, but still not commercially popular. It will depend on which way the technology development leads to.

As diesel engines do not have spark plugs and the ignition temperature of gases being higher than diesel, a pilot injection is required for starting the combustion of gas fuel in case of CI engines. Which in turns make it a expensive project and therefore it is not economical.

If low sulphur diesel catches on, then diesel is going to popular for quite some time to come.

rahul_intlad · 5th October 2006, 21:20

Once cng becomes a nation wide[pan-India] phenomenon would it be feasable for taxi/fleet operators or even people with very high fuel bills to actually opt for cng vehicles instead of diesel.

That is will cng take over the diesel automobile market completely.

wolfinstein · 6th October 2006, 09:27

CNG network is being developed in many cities, Some dedicated lines by GAIL are in place around New Delhi,Gurgaon-CNG Filler/PNG in Process,Noida-CNG Filler/PNG in Process,Agra,Mumbai,Surat etc..! It is becoming popular alternative and cost effective source, I think the network should be in place by 2010.

Diesal vehicles will shift to Low sulphur and also blended with Bio Diesel Jatropha, I read a few days back in TOI Delhi- That there is a PIL ( Public Intrest Litigation) in the Supreme Court, which says that Diesel vehicles have increased and since the Inter State buses still run Diesel, The vehicular pollution has increased to dangerous levels, Hence there might be now an additional CAP on the number of Diesel vehicles sold in Delhi along with Higher Registration charges. The Delhi Govt also wants neighbouring states to have CNG System in place by commonwealth so the pollution levels be reduced and High Capcity Buses which are now plying in Delhi on the 623 Hauz Khas-Shivaji Stadium can extend to Noida,Gurgaon,Faridabad,Etc.

4th October 2006, 09:29	#1
rahul_intlad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 1,579 Thanked: 4 Times	The Low cost fuel of the future. Actually doing some research on this regard and would like to know team-bhp members views regarding what the vehicle of the future will be powered by. 1>.Today almost everybody is veering towards a diesel to lower their fuel costs,but would diesel continue to remain the same favourite in 5-10 years when cng would be present in most major towns.Would governments ban diesel vehicles from plying altogether from metros like delhi. 2.>What is the future of Cng.Would it be possible to provide CNG at all petrol pumps acrosss india.Is this the fuel we have been looking for. 3>.Lpg is also in the race but somehow is not catching up as expected,any particular reasons. 4>.We have electric cars like reva,Would we have ferraris powered by electric power. 5>.Hydrogen celled vehicles,which give expel water as its waste product,although expensive now can this be put into mass production vehicles at the cost of say a maruti 800. 6>.Biofuel vehicles,Hybrid vehicles And now the main reason why i have put this up in the technical section.I have come across numerous queries on the internet where diesel engines are fitted with an LPG cylinder is possible or not,can anybody give a good answer.Some say yes and others no who is correct? Also is it possible to retrofit a cng unit to a diesel engine ,and have the vehicle running on both cng as well as diesel alternatively after that[a bi-fuel vehicle]. Last edited by rahul_intlad : 4th October 2006 at 09:36.
	() Thanks

5th October 2006, 12:11	#2
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	Rahul, I Think the next Fuel Tech will be a varied one..the future lies on non fossil fuel systems such as Fuel Cell Tech,Solar Tech..! Once Fuel cell are made popular there will be no looking back on Fossil fuels. CNG- Will pick up nationwide distribution since there are 2 major pipeline projects bringing the gas from Kazakistan via Pakistan and Big deal between Qatar and India. Along with these Reliance and ONGC have found the worlds largest Natural Gas basin reserve in Krishna Godavri basin and a new sector off Bombay High. These finds and deals are leading to infrastructure development of Gas supply for both CNG in Cars and PNG for Domestic house use. LPG will always remain dependent on Petro refinement systems, since its a by product of Petro refinement.The distribution channel is being improved however it will remain limited to be supplied by Tankers and not Piped gas route since LPG is more inflameable at room temp, and is heavier so does not dissipate in the air easily. Jatropha-Bio Diesal is becoming popular, However it will be some time before we see Jatropha being sold commercially all across india, currently Jatropha is being sold in Districts of Maharastra and Govt of India is promoting Jatropha cultivation all across. Electric Cars such as REVA were flops in Metro cities since the distance were more than REVA could manage with One charge, However the development on Electric cars is that now when you brake the car the dynamo gets charged and allows more power for some more Km's..but really don't think Electric cars would work for a person who travels a lot around town. CNG systems can be retrofitted onto a Diesel Engine, However it is more expensive process compared with the same on Petrol Engine + it involves in Bore drilling and some more methods..but it is possible. Last edited by wolfinstein : 5th October 2006 at 12:25.
	() Thanks

5th October 2006, 19:33	#3
jat BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SINGAPORE Posts: 265 Thanked: 7 Times	As said by wolfinstein, there are many different possbilities, but still not commercially popular. It will depend on which way the technology development leads to. As diesel engines do not have spark plugs and the ignition temperature of gases being higher than diesel, a pilot injection is required for starting the combustion of gas fuel in case of CI engines. Which in turns make it a expensive project and therefore it is not economical. If low sulphur diesel catches on, then diesel is going to popular for quite some time to come.
	() Thanks

5th October 2006, 21:20	#4
rahul_intlad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 1,579 Thanked: 4 Times	Once cng becomes a nation wide[pan-India] phenomenon would it be feasable for taxi/fleet operators or even people with very high fuel bills to actually opt for cng vehicles instead of diesel. That is will cng take over the diesel automobile market completely.
	() Thanks

6th October 2006, 09:27	#5
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	CNG network is being developed in many cities, Some dedicated lines by GAIL are in place around New Delhi,Gurgaon-CNG Filler/PNG in Process,Noida-CNG Filler/PNG in Process,Agra,Mumbai,Surat etc..! It is becoming popular alternative and cost effective source, I think the network should be in place by 2010. Diesal vehicles will shift to Low sulphur and also blended with Bio Diesel Jatropha, I read a few days back in TOI Delhi- That there is a PIL ( Public Intrest Litigation) in the Supreme Court, which says that Diesel vehicles have increased and since the Inter State buses still run Diesel, The vehicular pollution has increased to dangerous levels, Hence there might be now an additional CAP on the number of Diesel vehicles sold in Delhi along with Higher Registration charges. The Delhi Govt also wants neighbouring states to have CNG System in place by commonwealth so the pollution levels be reduced and High Capcity Buses which are now plying in Delhi on the 623 Hauz Khas-Shivaji Stadium can extend to Noida,Gurgaon,Faridabad,Etc.
	() Thanks