[yatin]

I have their quote in hand; ₹78000+tax for a petrol Etios, for a roughly ₹1/km saving is not a good financial argument. But I don't think a generic environment argument is required to support, just see if you want your kids to have atleast our current "quality" of life. I see Maruti mild hybrid diesels priced ₹2.2 lakhs more than petrol, Nexa's is ₹1.8 lakhs for similar, so the retrofit is not overpriced.

My concern is is it safe "enough"? They route wires from the battery to the engine bay under the body. The thought of 48V DC flowing back & forth under the fuel tank is discomfiting.

[pramodkumar]

Originally Posted by socradamus

In reality, there is no need of RTO endorsement. It is useful if you want to sell it and when the buyer knows that what you have put is a ARAI certified kit and RTO endorsed vehicle.

If the idea is to use the kit and remove it when you sell to put it in your new car, then technically you dont need a RTO endorsement.

This is what I have understood from RTO endorsements of CNG/LPG kits and these kits.

You are ignoring the fact that RTO endorsements actually help in case of an accident and subsequent insurance claim. If a vehicle has any mods which is not RTO endorsed the mod becomes illegal and could be one reason your insurance claim is declined. This could affect 3rd part claims as well.

Pramod

[socradamus]

Hi Pramod

I agree with you. I am merely stating the fact if RTO endorsement is needed.

If you endorse it, the insurance will include with the fact that there is a RTO approved kit

If you dont endorse it, when you renew your insurance, the guy has no clue about the mod anyways.

I also heard that they tied up with Mahindra First Choice service centers for nationwide service network.

i am now at peace.

[socradamus]

Originally Posted by yatin

I have their quote in hand; ₹78000+tax for a petrol Etios, for a roughly ₹1/km saving is not a good financial argument. But I don't think a generic environment argument is required to support, just see if you want your kids to have atleast our current "quality" of life. I see Maruti mild hybrid diesels priced ₹2.2 lakhs more than petrol, Nexa's is ₹1.8 lakhs for similar, so the retrofit is not overpriced.

My concern is is it safe "enough"? They route wires from the battery to the engine bay under the body. The thought of 48V DC flowing back & forth under the fuel tank is discomfiting.

The Kits are ARAI tests for safety interms of emissions and so on. In any case, I used basic funda that if I have a choice between roaming around with a CNG cylinder and tons of spurious CNG/LPG kits, the 48V system the way it is packaged and harnessed with certification seemed much safer.

But I do agree with you. If we want a clean environment, we have to do something other than lip service and be 'invested' into it.

[abhishek46]

Even after going through the posts and pictures, I am still not clear how the Motor/Generator is connected to the wheels.
Is it connected directly to the wheels or the differential?

Is it possible to achieve electric only propulsion with this?

Lastly, I would take 20% plus fuel savings (that too with 55Kg weight penalty), with several sacks of salt. (not a pinch)

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by socradamus

The Kits are ARAI tests for safety interms of emissions and so on. In any case, I used basic funda that if I have a choice between roaming around with a CNG cylinder and tons of spurious CNG/LPG kits, the 48V system the way it is packaged and harnessed with certification seemed much safer.

But I do agree with you. If we want a clean environment, we have to do something other than lip service and be 'invested' into it.

socradamus, how is driveability, especially low speed driveability ?
also, impact on overall power delivery?
do they have any after sales support network - i mean if something goes wrong, you can't simply drive it into a random garage
I assume they would have a tie up with some existing network - but how is it working out?

[socradamus]

I figured this out after bugging the hell out of their engineer.

Drive Pattern - They seem to have done a lot of homework to calibrate these systems. The power train maps the users drive pattern. Meaning if you are a driver who is used to revving high and get more torque, the control algorithms map this out and give assistance in the same pattern. Hence you dont feel anything. Its as if you are riding your car as if there was no Kit. The logic is that the driver shouldnt feel a thrust or whiplash while driving. Else this might lead to tardy or scary experiences.

Since the battery gives this power as per their 'secret sauce', since the vehicle is moving as per my choice, I ease my foot on the gas pedal. Thats how they save the fuel.

The system is specially designed for low speed/high torque conditions...aka..basically 1st and 2nd gear scenarios. Since the engine is most fuel guzzling in this phase, they provide optimal assistance in this stage. If you drive a car, you wont be able to make out any difference. None of my friends could.


They tied up with Mahindra First Choice for nationwide support. I go to Panathur branch. You can go to any workshop since the system actually doesnt tamper/intrude into existing system other than Alternator.

I have been only once so far. I told them that there is a Electric Kit. All they were interested in was IC engine - oils change, brakes, AC, etc.

[greenhorn]

hah I was hoping for something like a KERS for start stop driving. My indica turbo has extremely low poke when crawling at stuck in traffic speeds - pedal response is lazy, very frustrating really. Given that this system supports it, was hoping this would help. Guess I'll have to wait and see

[socradamus]

Yes, this is not F1 KERS!! Wish it was. But apparently the kits go into Tata Zest/Bolt/Indica, etc.

I am more aware of CO2 footprint we leave. Though I prided myself that I knew about vehicles, I just realised that every litre of Diesel, I generate 2.5Kgs of CO2!!

I just put it because, we just crib about pollution but do nothing. I didnt want to look into ROI, etc.

Socradamus

[yatin]

@abhishek46, what is the rationale for your doubts?

Their website, and the product installation video to some extent, indicate that their motor-generator assists the engine in generating crankshaft revolutions; i.e. in the engine-gearbox-wheels drive-chain, the motor-generator is between the engine & the gearbox.

I guess only engine braking will be regenerative, not the braking mechanism's.

Why does 55kg weight addition matter much? It is the same as adding one light-weight adult, or ABS-EBD mechanism, in your car. How much does that affect F.E?

Recovering energy lost in stop-go traffic should get city F.E close to highway F.E, maybe more than highway F.E for aggressive driving.

25% more F.E ... ₹1/km ... these numbers matter if money in hand can tackle the problem (it isn't needed, is it? Health insurance will cover the additional costs of living in increasing pollution.) or help to run away from the problem. If we are going to stick around, and don't want Delhi "quality" in more places, > 0% reduction in vehicular emissions is all that matters. Isn't health greater than wealth?

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by socradamus

Meaning if you are a driver who is used to revving high and get more torque, the control algorithms map this out and give assistance in the same pattern. Hence you dont feel anything. Its as if you are riding your car as if there was no Kit. The logic is that the driver shouldnt feel a thrust or whiplash while driving. Else this might lead to tardy or scary experiences.

How does the kit achieve this? Does it have motors that provide assistance? Or is it the alternator acting as a motor?

[socradamus]

Its a bi-directional Motor-Generator. Its as compact as Alternator but it belts out about 4KW. I read that a typical Alternator is 400w or so.

They claim patents in 60 countries for this design. I didnt understand much in the USPTO website. I just wanted to check if they are bluffing!

In that sense its a sleek and looks much better quality that the alternator. The same unit acts a motor during the assist mode. Their App is beta version so it shows the assist with some latency.

[srishiva]

http://www.thehindu.com/life-and-sty...?homepage=true

Some information about the company in The Hindu.

[puntOOs]

Does anyone know if they do pure electric retrofit as well? I have seen their website claims that they are working on that.

[josephrmathias]

Hi @socradamus

Have been looking at this system to install in a Renault Duster or Hyundai Verna for a mix of city / highway driving.

Just wanted to know your feedback on the system after two years of use. How has the system held up? Any break downs or niggles.

Thanks in advance.
JM