Clutch Lock System - Is it really useful ?

dadu · 25th November 2007, 13:01

Its not a security system.

Hyundai advises you to press the clutch while starting in their owners manual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mithun

Can you please explain the reason behind that practice and whether it applies to both Carb & MPFI vehicles OR to one specifically ?

I've heard from some Hyundai guys that Clutch Lock System prevents the thefts that are committed by cutting the inside wires of the car. Is that true ?

doomsday · 25th November 2007, 13:15

AFAIK, most (if not all) superbikes have this system implemented. The clutch needs to be pulled in to crank the motor even though the bike is in neutral. I don't know the purpose, because of the fact that there are digital (or a tell-tale) indicators for neutral on all bikes.

In cars also, it is easy to find if the car is in neutral, whether not or it has a gear indicator. I guess it boils down to the person behind the wheel (or in the saddle) and his experience. A new driver (or rider) is much more prone to making the mistake of starting the car in gear, than an experienced one. However, I would be interested to know whether depressing the clutch even when transmission is in neutral puts less stress on moving parts(even though to a minuscule degree) and the reason behind the same.

tsk1979 · 25th November 2007, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ram

Americans never learn to reverse the car properly. Comes from having acres of paved parking space across their nation, plus huge cars and personal trucks.
Americans don't blow the horn -- again results from their vast spacious expanses, lane discipline, culture of stopping for every rare pedestrian and the mild tooters fitted in American cars. There are so many dead horns in old American cars, it isn't funny.

Ram

Disagree on the first point. I was made to reverse the car along a kerb for around 10 car lengths. If I touch the kerb I fail. If I go too wide I fail.
A learner driver has to master that before any hope of getting a license.

Speaking of clutch lock, its sure a good feature, but not much of a security feature. As for me I press clutch before starting. It is supposed to be a good practice

Thad E Ginathom · 25th November 2007, 14:05

I think a number of car manuals recommend depressing the clutch when starting. I think the Swift one does too.

Maybe it is the same reasoning as my father's advice; maybe also it puts strain on the clutch to crank the engine with it engaged?

Probably the majority of TBHP members read their manuals; I suspect that the majority of car owners do not.

Ram · 25th November 2007, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I think a number of car manuals recommend depressing the clutch when starting.
...maybe also it puts strain on the clutch to crank the engine with it engaged?

If you crank the starter without declutching, with a gear selected, it will turn the idler shaft of the gearbox, the driven gear, the crown wheel and the road wheels, in addition to the flywheel and the engine itself, making the car lurch violently.

A healthy Jeep diesel develops enough low-end torque to let the engine fire and pull away resolutely in low or reverse gear! (I've demonstrated this to my friends umpteen times).
If your gearbox is in neutral, the starter motor will still turn the idler shaft of the gearbox besides the flywheel and the engine itself, if you crank it with clutch engaged -- a harmless eventuality. Declutching does not add much value here. The starter must turn the heavy rotating mass of the engine and flywheel anyway to start the engine.

Cultivating the reflex of always declutching before cranking however, will protect you from eventuality (1) above, if some day you are less deliberate about your driving procedure.

Thad E Ginathom · 25th November 2007, 20:50

Well yes... Another of my late dad's pearls to his son: if you ever find yourself stalled on a railway crossing, and the engine won't start, engage first, and run the starter motor. It'll destroy the starter motor, but that's a small price to pay for shifting the car off the lines...

I'm pretty sure it'd never happened to him. Still, better to be prepared for every eventuality

Harbir · 25th November 2007, 22:17

Oh god, I hate it. I can't believe that Hyundai is offering it as an advantage. This is a solution to a problem that no one had.

This system exists on every single manual transmission car sold in the US, the only exception that I know of being my Lotus Elise.

You see, when millions of people don't have this system, its in their mental training to not turn the key without either pressing the clutch or ensuring the car is in Neutral. But if cars have this system, people have no incentive to do that, and they slowly forget to rely on themselves because the machine looks after them, and eventually, if you put them in a machine that doesn't have it, they are likely to cause an accident because they lost their own training to be careful.

This clutch interlock system is a typical American "dumbing down" phenomenon. Take responsibility away from people for their own actions and safety, and soon you can tell them that they can't be relied on for their actions and safety and need systems and rules to keep them safe from themselves.

In all the manual transmissions cars I have owned in the US, I disabled the clutch interlock system because I consider it an insult to my intellegence and my ability to operate a manual transmission car safely.

Are you so dangerous with a manual transmission car, so absent minded, so careless that you suddenly need this system to keep you safe? If so, how on earth did you ever stay safe till now?

I dearly hope this does not set off a wide spread trend in India. So far its widespread only in the automatic infested landscape of US and canada. Europeans don't stand for this and I hope Indians won't either.

Its really annoying to turn the key and have nothing happen.

Cheers

vivekiny2k · 26th November 2007, 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbir

In all the manual transmissions cars I have owned in the US, I disabled the clutch interlock system because I consider it an insult to my intellegence and my ability to operate a manual transmission car safely.

Are you so dangerous with a manual transmission car, so absent minded, so careless that you suddenly need this system to keep you safe? If so, how on earth did you ever stay safe till now?

Its really annoying to turn the key and have nothing happen.

Cheers

statistics, the one that comes after lies and damn lies. If statistics prove that such a system reduces accidents, i don't see any force which can stop people and their representatives and insurance companies from making it compulsory in all cars.

In india, however, it needs a party supporting from outside, a minority or religious issue or simply a brainless idiot sitting in a govt office to make it effective.

Harbir · 26th November 2007, 05:17

you can prove anything with statistics. even the truth.

but even if the statistics say that it reduces damages for insurance companies, I still don't want it in my car. Thats why in every car I've owned, I have short circuited this lock.usually, all it takes is a paper clip stuck across the terminals of the clutch interlock switcher connector

gbpscars · 26th November 2007, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by mithun

Is it a wise security feature taking into consideration our levelheaded thiefs ?

yes and no!!
it is only as secure as using an empty password for your login

Edsel Rulez! · 26th November 2007, 15:30

The instructors at Maruti Driving School (MDS) that I briefly attended used to insist that learners start the car after shifting to neutral and stepping on the clutch pedal.

doomsday · 26th November 2007, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbir

This clutch interlock system is a typical American "dumbing down" phenomenon. Take responsibility away from people for their own actions and safety, and soon you can tell them that they can't be relied on for their actions and safety and need systems and rules to keep them safe from themselves.

Are you so dangerous with a manual transmission car, so absent minded, so careless that you suddenly need this system to keep you safe? If so, how on earth did you ever stay safe till now?

I would like to mention the lane diversion warning system from Citroen in this context. It works on the principle that if you are doing above 30-35 mph and you cross the white center line, the system will alert you by vibrating the sides of your seat. Come on man... if you need a system like this to prevent you from straying into the oncoming lane, you shouldn't be driving in the first place.

I personally hate aids which depend more on the car and the electronics than the driver himself. More than absolute necessary stuff like Airbags and ABS which intended for safety on the road, where there are umpteen parameters not under driver's control- is a strict no-no. On a track, where the conditions are lot more controlled, even an ABS or TCS can be a nuisance for a good driver. As they say, with respect to handling: no amount of electronic wizardry is a substitute for a well-sorted out chassis.

cypher · 26th November 2007, 17:00

Though Hyundai didn't intend this to be a security feature, it does provide a wee bit of additional security if you use it in combination with a physical brake/clutch pedal lock.

I have a clutch lock on my Getz and (I suppose that) a thief would have to break through the lock to start the car. Granted that a professional thief would easily find a way around it, but for the oppourtunistic ones, it is an additional deterrent. I hope so at least.

Delta Wing · 9th February 2010, 10:02

This thread seems to have veered from usefulness of a feature to a debate over american intelligence quotient and habits. The clutch lock is a useful feature to have. I can't say I'm a bad driver or an unintelligent (? hehe) one but I have cranked my car in gear twice when I was preoccupied and in great hurry. Anyone can forget a habit which is learned (press-clutch-before-crank etc) as against an instinct (brake-when-see-obstruction etc) when under pressure/preoccupation. It's a feature that saves an occasional accident/embarassment/damage so why not have it? It's just like the feature that won't let you crank an already started engine. American cars have long since been having ABS, airbags, seatbelts etc much before we did in India so should we bash them for it? My 2 cents er..paise.

SS-Traveller · 9th February 2010, 10:15

A thread revived after 2 years!

Just a note on a newer innovation of the clutch lock on the Scorpio VLX: in neutral, the engine will crank and start as usual. In any gear, with clutch engaged, the starter will not crank. Depress the clutch pedal in any gear, and the starter motor runs again.

That would solve Delta Wing's problem!

25th November 2007, 13:15	#17
doomsday BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 424 Thanked: 59 Times	AFAIK, most (if not all) superbikes have this system implemented. The clutch needs to be pulled in to crank the motor even though the bike is in neutral. I don't know the purpose, because of the fact that there are digital (or a tell-tale) indicators for neutral on all bikes. In cars also, it is easy to find if the car is in neutral, whether not or it has a gear indicator. I guess it boils down to the person behind the wheel (or in the saddle) and his experience. A new driver (or rider) is much more prone to making the mistake of starting the car in gear, than an experienced one. However, I would be interested to know whether depressing the clutch even when transmission is in neutral puts less stress on moving parts(even though to a minuscule degree) and the reason behind the same.
	() Thanks

25th November 2007, 14:05	#19
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 11,469 Thanked: 30,154 Times	I think a number of car manuals recommend depressing the clutch when starting. I think the Swift one does too. Maybe it is the same reasoning as my father's advice; maybe also it puts strain on the clutch to crank the engine with it engaged? Probably the majority of TBHP members read their manuals; I suspect that the majority of car owners do not.
	() Thanks

25th November 2007, 20:50	#21
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 11,469 Thanked: 30,154 Times	Well yes... Another of my late dad's pearls to his son: if you ever find yourself stalled on a railway crossing, and the engine won't start, engage first, and run the starter motor. It'll destroy the starter motor, but that's a small price to pay for shifting the car off the lines... I'm pretty sure it'd never happened to him. Still, better to be prepared for every eventuality
	() Thanks

25th November 2007, 22:17	#22
Harbir BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 920 Thanked: 1,030 Times View My Garage	Oh god, I hate it. I can't believe that Hyundai is offering it as an advantage. This is a solution to a problem that no one had. This system exists on every single manual transmission car sold in the US, the only exception that I know of being my Lotus Elise. You see, when millions of people don't have this system, its in their mental training to not turn the key without either pressing the clutch or ensuring the car is in Neutral. But if cars have this system, people have no incentive to do that, and they slowly forget to rely on themselves because the machine looks after them, and eventually, if you put them in a machine that doesn't have it, they are likely to cause an accident because they lost their own training to be careful. This clutch interlock system is a typical American "dumbing down" phenomenon. Take responsibility away from people for their own actions and safety, and soon you can tell them that they can't be relied on for their actions and safety and need systems and rules to keep them safe from themselves. In all the manual transmissions cars I have owned in the US, I disabled the clutch interlock system because I consider it an insult to my intellegence and my ability to operate a manual transmission car safely. Are you so dangerous with a manual transmission car, so absent minded, so careless that you suddenly need this system to keep you safe? If so, how on earth did you ever stay safe till now? I dearly hope this does not set off a wide spread trend in India. So far its widespread only in the automatic infested landscape of US and canada. Europeans don't stand for this and I hope Indians won't either. Its really annoying to turn the key and have nothing happen. Cheers
	() Thanks

26th November 2007, 05:17	#24
Harbir BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 920 Thanked: 1,030 Times View My Garage	you can prove anything with statistics. even the truth. but even if the statistics say that it reduces damages for insurance companies, I still don't want it in my car. Thats why in every car I've owned, I have short circuited this lock.usually, all it takes is a paper clip stuck across the terminals of the clutch interlock switcher connector
	() Thanks

26th November 2007, 15:30	#26
Edsel Rulez! BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 210 Thanked: 33 Times	The instructors at Maruti Driving School (MDS) that I briefly attended used to insist that learners start the car after shifting to neutral and stepping on the clutch pedal.
	() Thanks

26th November 2007, 17:00	#28
cypher BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 152 Thanked: 4 Times	Though Hyundai didn't intend this to be a security feature, it does provide a wee bit of additional security if you use it in combination with a physical brake/clutch pedal lock. I have a clutch lock on my Getz and (I suppose that) a thief would have to break through the lock to start the car. Granted that a professional thief would easily find a way around it, but for the oppourtunistic ones, it is an additional deterrent. I hope so at least.
	() Thanks

9th February 2010, 10:02	#29
Delta Wing BHPian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 247 Thanked: 192 Times	This thread seems to have veered from usefulness of a feature to a debate over american intelligence quotient and habits. The clutch lock is a useful feature to have. I can't say I'm a bad driver or an unintelligent (? hehe) one but I have cranked my car in gear twice when I was preoccupied and in great hurry. Anyone can forget a habit which is learned (press-clutch-before-crank etc) as against an instinct (brake-when-see-obstruction etc) when under pressure/preoccupation. It's a feature that saves an occasional accident/embarassment/damage so why not have it? It's just like the feature that won't let you crank an already started engine. American cars have long since been having ABS, airbags, seatbelts etc much before we did in India so should we bash them for it? My 2 cents er..paise.
	() Thanks

9th February 2010, 10:15	#30
SS-Traveller Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: New Delhi Posts: 8,283 Thanked: 28,767 Times View My Garage	A thread revived after 2 years! Just a note on a newer innovation of the clutch lock on the Scorpio VLX: in neutral, the engine will crank and start as usual. In any gear, with clutch engaged, the starter will not crank. Depress the clutch pedal in any gear, and the starter motor runs again. That would solve Delta Wing's problem!
	() Thanks