Is RWD more suited for India?

vcash · 20th January 2007, 03:35

Hi Guys,

I was wondering - Are there any localized cars produced or assembled in India that are not FWD or AWD? I am talking SKDs and Homogenious vehicles - so discount the CBUs. I may be wrong here but I don't think RWD cars are produced in India (Maybe the San Storm? But I'm not sure)

So that got me thinking - we have a climate conducive to RWD cars i.e. No Snow or Sleet; RWD offer better traction and more performace (Yay! for us enthusiasts) and not mention chepaer repair costs for RWD Differentials over FWD. And most importantly - you can push a RWD car laterally around a corner like no FWD car out there! So Why is no one producing these types of cars?

I know the common answers: RWD more expensive to produce, Less room in the back and trunk, etc. etc. but there are so many nice RWD cars that would be perfect for India. What do you guys think?

salilpawar1 · 20th January 2007, 14:31

As far as I know, FWD cars are much more economical to produce and also they are more practical. I am sounding cliched but finally no matter what happens, producing automobiles is a business and generating maximum profit is finally what matters at the end of the day irrespective of what people say.

RWD cars have their own merits (mainly from the performance/handling point of view) but anyway most car makers (at least in India) rarely care for auto enthusiasts, which contribute a very small percentage in the market.

That is why, the Old Honda City VTEC, Fiat Palio 1.6 and many other performance oriented cars are discontinued or on the verge of extinction because you see every Tom, Dick and Harry doesn't drive his car for max performance. He just wants to reach from point A to point B.

By the same logic, soft roaders are getting more preference over full fledged off roaders, and thus, even the so called "SUVs" are going the FWD/AWD way!!

man23ish · 20th January 2007, 14:43

The Omni, Tata's Telcoline and the old Matadors were all RWD.. Besides all of commercial grade vehicles..

GTO · 20th January 2007, 15:15

Most of the Mahindras, Tatas, Trax' and old-gen sedans (Contessa, Amby, Padmini) are RWD.

Butttttttttttttttt almost all modern cars - excepting for luxury barges - are FWD. Primary reason is cost.

vcash · 20th January 2007, 20:30

It's pretty sad about the RWD cars not being available in India. I figured it was the cost factor that keeps them out of India. Now if only Tata were to make a coupe with RWD based on the Indica platform - that would be sweet! It would cater to a niche market - they would need to price it at about 6.5L for it to work.

I can see Baby Boomers in India and young proffesionals picking up cars like this. Well - it's just a wish for now.

Rehaan · 20th January 2007, 21:59

I think another overlooked factor is safety.

FWD cars are comparatively safer in behavior, (ie understeer that can be saved by taking off the gas or hitting the brakes, whereas oversteer can be much more dangerous and not as easily recoverable).
So keeping that in mind its just the safer (less liability) and cheaper (since you guys said so) way of making an automobile, so why would the manufacturers want it any other way?

Ofcourse - this is keeping in mind that cars are getting more powerful, and a RWD contessa or omini is nowhere near as lethal as a RWD RS or Accord V6 would be.
(not to mention powerful RWD cars need electronic driving aids = more money)

However, i like the thought that our climate is conducive to RWD

cya
R

Desert fox · 21st January 2007, 01:37

I only hope increase of FWD vehicles(passenger) is not a sign of changing times here to stay.

I agree with Rehaan about it's most important attribute i:e safety,but there is no taking away the charm of typical Over-steer character of RWD....and the feel great factor of catching the vehicle back from it's typical quirks.

pgsagar · 24th January 2007, 23:58

GTO, Qualis and Innovas are also RWD cars. The best thing about RWD cars is we hear no drive-shaft clunking sound from front while taking a tight turn. In a FWD cars worn out drive-shafts produce this horrible sound which you may see from humble Maruti 800 to upmarket Honda Accords.

Steeroid · 25th January 2007, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcash

RWD offer better traction and more performace (Yay! for us enthusiasts)

Pardon my ignorance but how does RWÐ offer better performance?

Other than the fun factor around corners for ‘enthusiasts‘ - which can be dangerous in not so capable hands - what is the real advantage in having the engine upfront drive the wheels at the back?

To me it makes sense if a mid or rear mounted engine drives the rear wheels. What's the point in mounting the engine upfront when that power is meant to drive the rear wheels?

To me it makes

vcash · 25th January 2007, 10:08

Taken from Forza:
RWD Pros
Better Acceleration: When you put your foot down on the gas pedal, the car's weight transfers to the rear of the car. If you have RWD, then the wheels that are responsible for the acceleration are getting more of what they need: traction. In a FWD car, that additional traction is taken away from the wheels that need it the most.
Better Traction: If the road is dry -- which is likely when you're going to be using your high-performance automobile -- RWD has better traction than FWD because of its better weight distribution (see below) and acceleration (see above).
Better Weight Distribution: Speaking of weight transfer, the ideal for any car is to have perfect weight distribution, with 50% of its weight forward and 50% in the back. A FWD car throws everything to the front, usually by a factor of having 2/3 toward the front of the car. This affects how the car drives in many ways, making it less ideal for performance driving and racing.
Divided Labor: In FWD cars, the front tires are responsible for a lot of important work: acceleration, braking, and steering, while the potential in the rear tires are wasted. RWD puts acceleration where the weight of the car is already transferring during acceleration and lets the front wheels steer and brake, to give the driver better handling.
Confidence in Driving "At the Limit": Confidence in itself will enable the driver to lay down quicker lap times. When you are at the edge of traction, RWD typically is more "drivable" because you can easily control the pitch of the car (by steering with the throttle, for instance), whereas FWD can get out of hand very quickly because the rear is simply following the front. If the front tires are maxed out and the rear lets go, you can almost guarantee a spin, or at least scrub off tons of speed with FWD vehicles.

Steeroid,
Logically you are correct about mid engined RWD cars having optimal prformance. However historically great marques have always had the RWD, engine up front set up. Infact a lot of the new super cars being designed to incorporate this setup. There is a push back from the legacy market. Check out the New Alfa Competizone. Having Maserati's and Ferraris tech backing - they could have easily gone mid engined - but the designers pushed for a classic setup out of emotional reasons. I guess performance has 2 components - one is reality of actual handling, speed agility etc.; the second is the granduer, mystery and allure of the setup that reminds of the performance cars of yesteryear.

I consider myself to be a fairly accomplished driver and though I have never driven a Mid engined car, I have had my share of RWD and FWD cars. To me and only to me - the feel of a RWD is superior. I like sliding into tight corners - taking turns that for a mere second gives you the bad feeling that you are about to loose control only to bring you back into the thick of things. It is that charm of RWD cars that enhance driveability and performance for me.

determinus · 25th January 2007, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Pardon my ignorance but how does RWÐ offer better performance?

Agreed that in FWD, since the transmission loss is less (as it is direct drive), more torque should reach the wheels.

But performance is not just about power delivery (or efficiency). It is easier to push an object to attain a certain speed than to pull. It is a vague thought for me - who remembers, er, forces and resultants?

Mindgrinder · 17th November 2010, 17:29

is linea RWD or FWD? which second hand car i can buy as RWD in india for drifting

jeepster · 17th November 2010, 17:43

linea is FWD.
premier padmini with 2000+ cc turbo petrol engine.

also add multi point fuel injection, programable ECU, NOS, K&N, FFE.

HM ambassador, premier padmini are the best examples of RWD cars.

akhilesh51 · 17th November 2010, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcash

Hi Guys,

I was wondering - Are there any localized cars produced or assembled in India that are not FWD or AWD? I am talking SKDs and Homogenious vehicles - so discount the CBUs. I may be wrong here but I don't think RWD cars are produced in India (Maybe the San Storm? But I'm not sure)

I know the common answers: RWD more expensive to produce, Less room in the back and trunk, etc. etc. but there are so many nice RWD cars that would be perfect for India. What do you guys think?

Tata Nano : Face of Indian Auto Industry, almost entirely homogeneous product, Indian by heart and soul is also RWD.

simplythebest · 17th November 2010, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by akhilesh51

Tata Nano : Face of Indian Auto Industry, almost entirely homogeneous product, Indian by heart and soul is also RWD.

LOL, everyone missed the very obvious one. Including me.

Whose gonna soup up a nano and drift around corners? Might need 'trainer' wheels though!

20th January 2007, 03:35	#1
vcash BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 453 Thanked: 22 Times	Is RWD more suited for India? Hi Guys, I was wondering - Are there any localized cars produced or assembled in India that are not FWD or AWD? I am talking SKDs and Homogenious vehicles - so discount the CBUs. I may be wrong here but I don't think RWD cars are produced in India (Maybe the San Storm? But I'm not sure) So that got me thinking - we have a climate conducive to RWD cars i.e. No Snow or Sleet; RWD offer better traction and more performace (Yay! for us enthusiasts) and not mention chepaer repair costs for RWD Differentials over FWD. And most importantly - you can push a RWD car laterally around a corner like no FWD car out there! So Why is no one producing these types of cars? I know the common answers: RWD more expensive to produce, Less room in the back and trunk, etc. etc. but there are so many nice RWD cars that would be perfect for India. What do you guys think?
	() Thanks

20th January 2007, 14:31	#2
salilpawar1 BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (MH-01) Posts: 852 Thanked: 247 Times View My Garage	As far as I know, FWD cars are much more economical to produce and also they are more practical. I am sounding cliched but finally no matter what happens, producing automobiles is a business and generating maximum profit is finally what matters at the end of the day irrespective of what people say. RWD cars have their own merits (mainly from the performance/handling point of view) but anyway most car makers (at least in India) rarely care for auto enthusiasts, which contribute a very small percentage in the market. That is why, the Old Honda City VTEC, Fiat Palio 1.6 and many other performance oriented cars are discontinued or on the verge of extinction because you see every Tom, Dick and Harry doesn't drive his car for max performance. He just wants to reach from point A to point B. By the same logic, soft roaders are getting more preference over full fledged off roaders, and thus, even the so called "SUVs" are going the FWD/AWD way!!
	() Thanks

20th January 2007, 14:43	#3
man23ish BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 626 Thanked: 18 Times	The Omni, Tata's Telcoline and the old Matadors were all RWD.. Besides all of commercial grade vehicles..
	() Thanks

20th January 2007, 15:15	#4
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,559 Thanked: 300,924 Times View My Garage	Most of the Mahindras, Tatas, Trax' and old-gen sedans (Contessa, Amby, Padmini) are RWD. Butttttttttttttttt almost all modern cars - excepting for luxury barges - are FWD. Primary reason is cost.
	() Thanks

20th January 2007, 20:30	#5
vcash BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 453 Thanked: 22 Times	It's pretty sad about the RWD cars not being available in India. I figured it was the cost factor that keeps them out of India. Now if only Tata were to make a coupe with RWD based on the Indica platform - that would be sweet! It would cater to a niche market - they would need to price it at about 6.5L for it to work. I can see Baby Boomers in India and young proffesionals picking up cars like this. Well - it's just a wish for now.
	(1) Thanks

20th January 2007, 21:59	#6
Rehaan Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 24,046 Thanked: 34,083 Times	I think another overlooked factor is safety. FWD cars are comparatively safer in behavior, (ie understeer that can be saved by taking off the gas or hitting the brakes, whereas oversteer can be much more dangerous and not as easily recoverable). So keeping that in mind its just the safer (less liability) and cheaper (since you guys said so) way of making an automobile, so why would the manufacturers want it any other way? Ofcourse - this is keeping in mind that cars are getting more powerful, and a RWD contessa or omini is nowhere near as lethal as a RWD RS or Accord V6 would be. (not to mention powerful RWD cars need electronic driving aids = more money) However, i like the thought that our climate is conducive to RWD cya R
	() Thanks

21st January 2007, 01:37	#7
Desert fox BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 228 Thanked: Once	I only hope increase of FWD vehicles(passenger) is not a sign of changing times here to stay. I agree with Rehaan about it's most important attribute i:e safety,but there is no taking away the charm of typical Over-steer character of RWD....and the feel great factor of catching the vehicle back from it's typical quirks.
	() Thanks

24th January 2007, 23:58	#8
pgsagar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vizag Posts: 2,630 Thanked: 3,581 Times View My Garage	GTO, Qualis and Innovas are also RWD cars. The best thing about RWD cars is we hear no drive-shaft clunking sound from front while taking a tight turn. In a FWD cars worn out drive-shafts produce this horrible sound which you may see from humble Maruti 800 to upmarket Honda Accords.
	() Thanks

25th January 2007, 10:08	#10
vcash BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 453 Thanked: 22 Times	Taken from Forza: RWD Pros *Better Acceleration:* When you put your foot down on the gas pedal, the car's weight transfers to the rear of the car. If you have RWD, then the wheels that are responsible for the acceleration are getting more of what they need: traction. In a FWD car, that additional traction is taken away from the wheels that need it the most. *Better Traction:* If the road is dry -- which is likely when you're going to be using your high-performance automobile -- RWD has better traction than FWD because of its better weight distribution (see below) and acceleration (see above). *Better Weight Distribution:* Speaking of weight transfer, the ideal for any car is to have perfect weight distribution, with 50% of its weight forward and 50% in the back. A FWD car throws everything to the front, usually by a factor of having 2/3 toward the front of the car. This affects how the car drives in many ways, making it less ideal for performance driving and racing. *Divided Labor:* In FWD cars, the front tires are responsible for a lot of important work: acceleration, braking, and steering, while the potential in the rear tires are wasted. RWD puts acceleration where the weight of the car is already transferring during acceleration and lets the front wheels steer and brake, to give the driver better handling. *Confidence in Driving "At the Limit":* Confidence in itself will enable the driver to lay down quicker lap times. When you are at the edge of traction, RWD typically is more "drivable" because you can easily control the pitch of the car (by steering with the throttle, for instance), whereas FWD can get out of hand very quickly because the rear is simply following the front. If the front tires are maxed out and the rear lets go, you can almost guarantee a spin, or at least scrub off tons of speed with FWD vehicles. Steeroid, Logically you are correct about mid engined RWD cars having optimal prformance. However historically great marques have always had the RWD, engine up front set up. Infact a lot of the new super cars being designed to incorporate this setup. There is a push back from the legacy market. Check out the New Alfa Competizone. Having Maserati's and Ferraris tech backing - they could have easily gone mid engined - but the designers pushed for a classic setup out of emotional reasons. I guess performance has 2 components - one is reality of actual handling, speed agility etc.; the second is the granduer, mystery and allure of the setup that reminds of the performance cars of yesteryear. I consider myself to be a fairly accomplished driver and though I have never driven a Mid engined car, I have had my share of RWD and FWD cars. To me and only to me - the feel of a RWD is superior. I like sliding into tight corners - taking turns that for a mere second gives you the bad feeling that you are about to loose control only to bring you back into the thick of things. It is that charm of RWD cars that enhance driveability and performance for me.
	() Thanks

17th November 2010, 17:29	#12
Mindgrinder BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Delhi Posts: 229 Thanked: 65 Times	is linea RWD or FWD? which second hand car i can buy as RWD in india for drifting
	() Thanks

17th November 2010, 17:43	#13
jeepster Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: MH24 aka LATUR Posts: 1,694 Thanked: 1,927 Times View My Garage	linea is FWD. premier padmini with 2000+ cc turbo petrol engine. also add multi point fuel injection, programable ECU, NOS, K&N, FFE. HM ambassador, premier padmini are the best examples of RWD cars. Last edited by jeepster : 17th November 2010 at 17:50.
	() Thanks