[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by vickster

I completely agree and I am very thankful for the good advice BHPians gave. The thing is that the car has some serious shift shock and improper shifting that even the workshop has confirmed. So I think there's no other option other than gearbox replacement..

Again, nobody can tell for sure what the gearbox will do once it has been flushed and refilled properly. Currently your gear box is full of muck, of course it doesn't shift properly. But that doesn't mean anything is damaged. Its is just this mixture of coolant and oil that makes it misbehave. Unless you have driven it for thousands of miles I would be very surprised to see any physical damage in the gear box itself.

Jeroen

[Sutripta]

^^^
The friction bands are contaminated. Probably permanently. But given that the OP will have to bear the full cost himself, thoroughly flushing and changing the oil to see what happens is the route I'd take.

Though it is easy to say 'change friction surfaces', even abroad auto transmissions are repaired by specialist repair houses.

Regards
Sutripta

[vickster]

Originally Posted by spookey

My cousin had almost finalised the XC90 but after reading your ordeal he has changed his mind. Thanks for sharing.

Hi Spookey. XC90 is a great car. Before your cousin cancels do ask him to check if the vehicle is still under warranty and maybe also check its service history. Do keep us posted and share some pics if possible.

[Notabikeguy]

Hello people,

I am new to this forum but I have always followed team bhp for the posts that intrest me. And this is the first time after seeing this I felt the urge to take time and write. And I hope if this may help the owner. And I would like to apologise in advance if my choice of words and grammar is not correctly used.

So let me introduce my self. I've been working with Volvo cars for the past 5 years with service, warranty and as a support to technicians. And I've seen these types of damages on numerous occasions. I am really sorry for the owner who is going through this and I hope the best for him.

Models like Xc60 and S60 who used the engines like B4, B6, D4 and D5 were the ones usually effected by these sort of coolant mixtures.

The engine oil cooler is situated along with the oil trap assembly of the engine (positive crank case or oil catch Can) and the transmission oil cooler either located at the radiator or else near the transmission.
These oil coolers are nothing but heat exchangers. Which are made of aluminum and has honeycomb mesh type of structure with dual pipes going through it one for oil and the other for coolant. Any sort of chemical reaction may cause this sort of a problem. I am sure that this damage has taken place over sometime and the only way to detect this trouble is to open the hood every week. If it is detected by a "coolant level low stop engine safely" msg then the damage is already done.

Volvos are very notorious for these problems. Both the engine oil cooler and transmission oil cooler has problems all over the world. There has been numerous complaints worldwide and unfortunately Volvo never superceded these parts after receiving complaints and they just let the customers and the dealer manage. I wonder why Volvo India is not helping the customer with Goodwill. Volvos policy is that if a customer's car has a problem under 5 years from the date of purchase which is not on economical level, then 40% of the warranty price will have to be paid by the customer and the rest 60% of the warranty price will be take care of by the dealer and principal 30%-30% respectively (customer will not have to pay retail price of the gearbox but the warranty price). Previously Volvo provided 30 years of goodwill based on the cars history but I guess this left them almost bankrupt. May be Volvo India doesn't want to help this customer has he has purchased a used car and not directly from the dealership.

But let me tell you this,once the cooland and transmission oil mixes I have never seen a gearbox last more than a week after flushing it. This residue burns the clutch or whatever is left of it and causes the gearbox to overheat and the result is that the car does not move in drive and just the rpm increases. If incase the customer still wants to fix the car I would suggest to replace all the coolant hoses and engine oil cooler too to avoid further damage to the engine assembly as well. If this is not replaced then the engine oil cooler also may get effected by the chemical reaction.

Finally i would also like to add that Volvo has been using Ford parts like engine and the gearbox which has had issues like pistons cracking and auto transmission failures very frequently. And Ford has been slapped with lawsuits in the United States for these problems. Make sure you ask your Volvo Dealer to tell you what sort of gearbox this car has. If this car has a power shift gearbox or MPS6 gearbox. Then please donot bother fixing your car with a new transmission. As this is the worst transmission I have ever seen in Volvos. This one breaks every 50-60k and requires replacing the entire assembly.

I don't know if this would help you guys. But I felt terrible after hearing this and thought of writing to you guys. Let me know if you guys need anything more. Me and my friends will try to help you.

[vickster]

Originally Posted by Notabikeguy

Hello people,

Models like Xc60 and S60 who used the engines like B4, B6, D4 and D5 were the ones usually effected by these sort of coolant mixtures.

If it is detected by a "coolant level low stop engine safely" msg then the damage is already done.

Volvos are very notorious for these problems. Both the engine oil cooler and transmission oil cooler has problems all over the world. Volvos policy is that if a customer's car has a problem under 5 years from the date of purchase which is not on economical level, then 40% of the warranty price will have to be paid by the customer and the rest 60% of the warranty price will be take care of by the dealer and principal 30%-30% respectively (customer will not have to pay retail price of the gearbox but the warranty price).

But let me tell you this,once the cooland and transmission oil mixes I have never seen a gearbox last more than a week after flushing it.

I don't know if this would help you guys. But I felt terrible after hearing this and thought of writing to you guys. Let me know if you guys need anything more. Me and my friends will try to help you.

Hi Notabikeguy

Thanks for sharing more detailed info on this. My XC60 is a December 2014 model. This was the first XC60 to come with the new Volvo Drive-E series engines which is basically Volvo terminology for the 4 cylinder 2.0 Diesels with the 8 Speed Box. Volvo had decided back then that their future IC engines wouldn't be bigger than 4 cylinders and turbocharging was the way forward to extract maximum power. The current Volvo diesels are all based on this engine and Gearbox. I was specifically hunting for this model as I loved the strong linear acceleration after many test drives.

Volvo's gearbox is supplied by Aisin - A Toyota Subsidary

This 8 speed Gearbox is actually made by Aisin, a subsidiary company owned by Toyota. If you look carefully, Aisin markings are clear under the bonnet. Most Volvo technicians and managers are not aware of this. The Aisin AW F8FXX series 8 speed box does duty in many transverse engine layout cars such as

2016–present Mini Countryman (F60)
2018–present BMW X2 (F39)
2018–present Lexus ES (4-cylinder non-hybrid engines)
2017–present Camry (4-cylinder non-hybrid engines)

2014–present Volvo XC90
2016–present Volvo S90
2016–present Volvo V90
2017–present Volvo XC60
2017–present Volvo XC40

More on this here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWF8F35


You mentioned Volvo’s policy of giving 60% discount to under 5 year old cars. Even another Volvo dealer has confirmed this to me. But surprisingly, while negotiating with the dealer, they started with a 30% discount on the Gearbox and Software which increased to 40% a couple of weeks later and now finally at 60%. Mind you, the discount is just for the box and software. The rest of the components such as the hoses, radiator etc do not carry a discount and works out to Rs.1.4 Lacs. I had clearly told them that I was willing to bear this additional cost if they took care of the Gearbox.

But Volvo India will not budge.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by vickster

while negotiating with the dealer, they started with a 30% discount on the Gearbox and Software which increased to 40% a couple of weeks later and now finally at 60%. Mind you, the discount is just for the box and software. The rest of the components such as the hoses, radiator etc do not carry a discount and works out to Rs.1.4 Lacs.

If they have already offered you 60 % Discounts, than it's a good job by Volvo India even though you are not the first owner. This was also not mentioned here before, if I am not mistaken. Please do take care to update such things as many people go through the forum and it can affect Brand and future customers as they would have not known the outcome which seems to be generous to me.

Regarding rest parts, request the dealership to forego their own margin in this particular case given the situation and maybe some rebates on the labour.

[vickster]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

If they have already offered you 60 % Discounts, than it's a good job by Volvo India even though you are not the first owner. This was also not mentioned here before, if I am not mistaken. Please do take care to update such things as many people go through the forum and it can affect Brand and future customers as they would have not known the outcome which seems to be generous to me.

Regarding rest parts, request the dealership to forego their own margin in this particular case given the situation and maybe some rebates on the labour.

Hi Turbanator

I don't think being first or second owner matters. The discussion has been going on for a while with Volvo and their last offer was a recent development. I have given the approval for repairs to be carried out since that was the best thing to do. My car has been lying in the workshop for a more than a month exposed to the weather.

Although this may seem generous from Volvo, from an owner point of view it is most disappointing. For a person like me who bought a Volvo after a near fatal crash in an Innova this has made me realise brand Volvo is a total gimmick cleverly created by some excellent marketing guys.

After all what good is safety without a gearbox?

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

If they have already offered you 60 % Discounts, than it's a good job by Volvo India even though you are not the first owner. This was also not mentioned here before, if I am not mistaken. Please do take care to update such things as many people go through the forum and it can affect Brand and future customers as they would have not known the outcome which seems to be generous to me.

Turbanator makes a very valid point. We are pleased you are getting a 60% discount on a very expensive piece and that too on a warranty expired second hand purchase. In my view this is a fair deal. We are a forum for self help and fairplay. Thus far I thought you were being given a raw deal by Volvo. Now things look just the opposite. In return for help, advice and visibility on the forum transparency is needed. Thanks.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

If they have already offered you 60 % Discounts, than it's a good job by Volvo India even though you are not the first owner.

Originally Posted by vickster

Hi Turbanator


Although this may seem generous from Volvo, from an owner point of view it is most disappointing.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Now things look just the opposite. In return for help, advice and visibility on the forum transparency is needed. Thanks.

I concur with Turbonator and V.Narayan

The Volvo gearbox failed - crap happens due to a lousy design. If this happened to every Volvo, you might have had a case. Skoda faced this (80% of Superbs!) and replaced the DSG boxes (after a lot of screaming and kicking!). You dont have a massive group of disgruntled owners to crowdsource consumer power to sort this out

This happened after 6 years. The economic life of a car is around 10 years (we, Indians think cars are like love and last forever!). You got 60% of a new gearbox for the cost of 40% of a gearbox.

Volvo have demonstrated intent to restore you to what you previously were. You are better by 20% of gearbox cost. This should offset the labour charges which is supplied by the dealer.

If you went the legal route, even with the slimmest chance of winning happened, you would be left with wasted time, legal fees and a very dusty Volvo. We would have added this to our "Imports gathering dust" thread

For a 6 year old car, you are good, accept it! Thats my advice

[Durango Dude]

Originally Posted by Notabikeguy

Volvos are very notorious for these problems. Both the engine oil cooler and transmission oil cooler has problems all over the world. There has been numerous complaints worldwide and unfortunately Volvo never superceded these parts after receiving complaints and they just let the customers and the dealer manage. I wonder why Volvo India is not helping the customer with Goodwill. Volvos policy is that if a customer's car has a problem under 5 years from the date of purchase which is not on economical level, then 40% of the warranty price will have to be paid by the customer and the rest 60% of the warranty price will be take care of by the dealer and principal 30%-30% respectively (customer will not have to pay retail price of the gearbox but the warranty price). Previously Volvo provided 30 years of goodwill based on the cars history but I guess this left them almost bankrupt. May be Volvo India doesn't want to help this customer has he has purchased a used car and not directly from the dealership.

Thanks for the insight and tech about the problem and you being candid. It's sounds horrifying at the things that could go wrong with "expensive" cars. I haven't popped the hood of any of the cars I owned except at Ayudha Pooja to insert a flower garland and to change the battery. Buying used Europeans surely looks like a recipe for disaster: may be "it's what written on one's forehead" as the saying in Tamil goes. May be Volvo now being a Chinese company has a part to play in how the customer is treated. That said I know of a close relative of mine who has an XC90 that has racked up close to 65K kms in 2 years, he's the first owner and has got himself completely covered with all warranties and says he's racked up something like ₹7-8L worth of maintenance during this time all taken care of by Volvo.

[vickster]

Originally Posted by ajmat

I concur with Turbonator and V.Narayan
The Volvo gearbox failed - crap happens due to a lousy design. If this happened to every Volvo, you might have had a case. If you went the legal route, even if the slimmest chance of winning happened, you would be left with wasted time, legal fees and a very dusty Volvo. We would have added this to our "Imports gathering dust" thread

For a 6 year old car, you are good, accept it! Thats my advice

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

That said I know of a close relative of mine who has an XC90 that has racked up close to 65K kms in 2 years, he's the first owner and has got himself completely covered with all warranties and says he's racked up something like ₹7-8L worth of maintenance during this time all taken care of by Volvo.

Thanks. You are probably right in the point that I am one of those unlucky few who wouldn't qualify for some serious crowd support. I realised Volvo doesn't care much for what's on Public forums or Social media. Therefore after some digging around, I contacted a couple of people of Volvo India who also stood by 30% and later 40%.

60% was finally achieved with a lawyer's intervention.
I have accepted their offer and repairs will begin shortly.


Regards,

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by vickster

60% was finally achieved with a lawyer's intervention.

Oh really! I will definitely like to know about such great lawyer. He certainly deserves an appreciation. Can you care to explain under what Indian laws did VOLVO backed down and agreed to bear 60% of the costs of an expensive part of an out of warranty 6 Year old car? I could not manage to get a spiral cable approved from Toyota on a sparingly used Innova just outside the warranty

[vickster]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Oh really! I will definitely like to get more details about such lawyer. Can you care to explain under what Indian laws did VOLVO backed down and agreed to bear 60% of the costs of an expensive part of an out of warranty 6 Year old car? I could not manage to get a spiral cable approved from Toyota on a sparingly used Innova just outside the warranty

Originally Posted by Notabikeguy

Volvos policy is that if a customer's car has a problem under 5 years from the date of purchase which is not on economical level, then 40% of the warranty price will have to be paid by the customer and the rest 60% of the warranty price will be take care of by the dealer and principal 30%-30% respectively (customer will not have to pay retail price of the gearbox but the warranty price).

Hi. I am not sure about which law specifically, but like our friend above has quoted Volvo has a policy to offer 60% straight away. This, other dealers have also confirmed.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by vickster

I am not sure about which law specifically, but like our friend above has quoted Volvo has a policy to offer 60% straight away. This, other dealers have also confirmed.

That’s what a fellow member has written. Do you or your lawyer have access to such Volvo policy? Can you share it here for benefits of everyone. And isn’t your car older then 5 years?

I think you are not recognizing the power of social media especially this forum which is widely regarded as the finest and most unbiased. So instead of feeling bad for not getting full compensation, you should feel lucky that Volvo India supported you. Credit goes to people like Mr. Narayan who have not only suggested you but must have privately asked guys at the top level of Volvo without even mentioning here. So, better Thank all the guys who helped you and Volvo India.

Wish you very best with the repairs and hope you have a trouble free experience with your Volvo.

[vickster]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

That’s what a fellow member has written. Do you or your lawyer have access to such Volvo policy? Can you share it here for benefits of everyone. And isn’t your car older then 5 years?

I think you are not recognizing the power of social media especially this forum which is widely regarded as the finest and most unbiased. So instead of feeling bad for not getting full compensation, you should feel lucky that Volvo India supported you. Credit goes to people like Mr. Narayan who have not only suggested you but must have privately asked guys at the top level of Volvo without even mentioning here. So, better Thank all the guys who helped you and Volvo India.

Wish you very best with the repairs and hope you have a trouble free experience with your Volvo.

Thanks Turbanator and my sincere thanks to everyone on the forum who have come forth with suggestions. I didn't mean to cause any disrespect to the forum.

The thing is when you spend a good amount of your savings buying the car you love and when something like this happens it causes a lot of disappointment. In retrospect I probably bought it with my heart rather than using my head. I just wanted to share that with fellow members here. I appreciate Volvo India for the support but honestly I wouldn't recommend a Volvo to anybody. I have done that enough.

Thank you Mr Narayan for supporting me and recommending my case to Volvo India. I honestly wasn't aware about this. Much appreciated. Many thanks to a BHPian who shared his experience privately about a gearbox failure on his V40 and suggestions on overhauling the box.

My car is a Dec 14 model which makes it 5 years old in Dec 19. I don't have access to Volvo's documented goodwill warranty policy but Volvo does have a policy of extending 60% straight away in genuine cases. Dealers have confirmed this and also a fellow BHPian has too in this thread. Most dealers like to haggle a bit before arriving at this figure. I guess that's what happened to me as well. Going legal is not something I would do or recommend considering it would be many years before a verdict is got. But it helped that the previous owner was a lawyer who gave me confidence to pursue this matter. Indian laws are definitely tilted in favour of us, the consumer.

Apologies again if I offended anyone.

Regards,