Start battery dead cars without jumper cables using static electricity

Sankar · 19th February 2007, 19:03

Before you guys draining your car batteries to check this how about trying it on small AA sized rechargeable batteries.

Drain the AA batt then check it on a multimeter, note down the reading, rub he +ve terminal with wool for 10 minutes and then again check the batt again on the multimeter and see how much it got charged.

I don't beleive that any of these gimmicks work. How many of you remember the other thread on similar lines? Using a tennis ball with a hole to open the car door locks.... Do you think that works? If it did then car thieves would be carying a small can with compressed air to open the locks rather than fiddling with keys or using any other method.

revvedup · 19th February 2007, 19:34

Yes the static electricity charge tranfer depends upon other factors like temperature and humidity.
Quoting from wikipedia

The triboelectric effect is a type of contact electrification in which certain materials become electrically charged after coming into contact with another different material, and are then separated. The polarity and strength of the charges produced differ according to the materials, surface roughness, temperature, strain, and other properties. It is therefore not very predictable, and only broad generalizations can be made. Amber, for example, can acquire an electric charge by contact and separation (respectively friction) with a material like wool.
Series

Materials are often listed in order of the polarity of charge separation when they are touched with another object. A material towards the bottom of the series, when touched to a material near the top of the series, will attain a more negative charge, and vice versa. The further away two materials are from each other on the series, the greater the charge transferred. Materials near to each other on the series may not exchange any charge, or may exchange the opposite of what is implied by the list. This depends more on the presence of rubbing, the presence of contaminants or oxides, or upon other properties than the type of material. Lists vary somewhat as to the exact order of some materials, since the charge also varies for nearby materials.
Triboelectric series
Most positively charged
+
Dry human skin
Asbestos
Leather
Rabbit's fur
Glass
Mica
Human hair
Nylon
Wool
Lead
Cat's fur
Silk
Aluminum
Paper (Small positive charge)
Cotton (No charge)
Most negatively charged
Steel (No charge)
Wood (Small negative charge)
Lucite
Amber
Sealing wax
Acrylic
Polystyrene
Rubber balloon
Resins
Hard rubber
Nickel, Copper
Sulfur
Brass, Silver
Gold, Platinum
Acetate, Rayon
Synthetic rubber
Polyester
Styrene (Styrofoam)
Orlon
Saran wrap
Polyurethane
Polyethylene (like Scotch tape)
Polypropylene
Vinyl (PVC)
Silicon
Teflon
Silicone rubber
Ebonite
−

After reading this we come to the conclusion that using leather gloves (provided they are you own and old weathered ones would be better) or nylon may be used for the purpose of this experiment instead of wool.
@Sankar
These things work but after some trying

and regarding opening of

cars if the it happens to be remote locking any car from a humble maruti 800 to a porsche 911 can be opened using something as simple as a walkie talkie by intercepting the signal of the remote locking with the walkie talkie at the the same set frequency.

Sankar · 19th February 2007, 19:55

It might man, but under ideal test conditions. But if anyone has access to a multimeter, a rechargeable cell and some pure wool it can be found upto what extent it works.

Revvedup, Opening the lock by electronic interference has a scientific basis. The video of the tennis ball technique to open the door i saw on youtube didn't have any scientific basis. How will air coming out of the ball push turn the lock cylinder and open the lock?

rajismine · 20th February 2007, 10:55

A gr8 idea and a gr8 video to explain this. However i doubt it will really work with bigger battries like for my Safari DICOR. I guess I will have to rub for at least 30 mins....

gd1418 · 20th February 2007, 15:39

Thanks Rehaan. The cap is genuine pure wool OSWAL brand. Costed 360/- when purchased. Real soft and warm. Now placed by my better-half on my monitor as a constant reminder...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rehaan

HAHAHAHA !!! Awesome!

I saw this thread two days ago and left it open as i didnt get a chance to watch the video, but i was very skeptical.

I finally got a chance to watch the video right now and thought to myself that it seems very unlikely, but it would be unfair to say so without trying it first.

And then i refresh this thread and see your reply

Now to play devils advocate -
- Are you sure the cap was wool?
- Doesnt ambient temperature has something to do with static electricity? (i dont know what or how?)
And most importantly -
- Leaving the lights on probably drained the battery SO low that theres no chance of this method helping. If the battery was at 95-99% of the voltage required to start the car...then MAYBE this might have worked?

Great to see you tried it though!!!
Now go buy the better half a new cap.
cya
R

gd1418 · 20th February 2007, 15:43

It actually might be true. Since diesels also need battery power to heat up the glow plugs this could be the reason plus diesel starters initially draw a humungous amount of current vis-a-vis petrol engine starters..

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocksterraghu

@gd1418

I am not sure about this, but does it have to do something with the diesel engine of the scorpio, since they don't have a spark plug and hence need more power from the battery?

gd1418 · 20th February 2007, 15:47

Enough of pot-shots my dear friends. On the contrary keep them coming. I'm loving them..One Sunday ruined and hosts of blabbering relatives calling up to find out about the experiment...

Quote:

Originally Posted by condor

E_L, good one that ..

GD, are you sure you only rubbed the cap against the battery terminal and not polished the terminal ?

WhiteKnight · 20th February 2007, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by gd1418

Enough of pot-shots my dear friends. On the contrary keep them coming. I'm loving them..One Sunday ruined and hosts of blabbering relatives calling up to find out about the experiment...

On the brighter side, can't help appreciating your spirit.

vichu · 25th February 2007, 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

The whole concept of static electricity is involving rubbing of two insulators, where one insulator looses electron and the other gets them. In this case we are rubbing an insulator (wool) with a conductor (Battery terminal). So, I am not really sure this works.

@ WhiteKnight,
You are correct.

To create static electricity two insulators have to be used.
No way it is possible to charge the dead battery (to the extent needed for cranking the engine) in these methods.

Proper charging is required.

-vichu

19th February 2007, 19:03	#16
Sankar Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Location Posts: 5,766 Thanked: 9,054 Times	Before you guys draining your car batteries to check this how about trying it on small AA sized rechargeable batteries. Drain the AA batt then check it on a multimeter, note down the reading, rub he +ve terminal with wool for 10 minutes and then again check the batt again on the multimeter and see how much it got charged. I don't beleive that any of these gimmicks work. How many of you remember the other thread on similar lines? Using a tennis ball with a hole to open the car door locks.... Do you think that works? If it did then car thieves would be carying a small can with compressed air to open the locks rather than fiddling with keys or using any other method.
	() Thanks

19th February 2007, 19:34	#17
revvedup BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Delhi Posts: 269 Thanked: 24 Times	Yes the static electricity charge tranfer depends upon other factors like temperature and humidity. Quoting from wikipedia The triboelectric effect is a type of contact electrification in which certain materials become electrically charged after coming into contact with another different material, and are then separated. The polarity and strength of the charges produced differ according to the materials, surface roughness, temperature, strain, and other properties. It is therefore not very predictable, and only broad generalizations can be made. Amber, for example, can acquire an electric charge by contact and separation (respectively friction) with a material like wool. Series Materials are often listed in order of the polarity of charge separation when they are touched with another object. A material towards the bottom of the series, when touched to a material near the top of the series, will attain a more negative charge, and vice versa. The further away two materials are from each other on the series, the greater the charge transferred. Materials near to each other on the series may not exchange any charge, or may exchange the opposite of what is implied by the list. This depends more on the presence of rubbing, the presence of contaminants or oxides, or upon other properties than the type of material. Lists vary somewhat as to the exact order of some materials, since the charge also varies for nearby materials. Triboelectric series Most positively charged + Dry human skin Asbestos Leather Rabbit's fur Glass Mica Human hair Nylon Wool Lead Cat's fur Silk Aluminum Paper (Small positive charge) Cotton (No charge) Most negatively charged Steel (No charge) Wood (Small negative charge) Lucite Amber Sealing wax Acrylic Polystyrene Rubber balloon Resins Hard rubber Nickel, Copper Sulfur Brass, Silver Gold, Platinum Acetate, Rayon Synthetic rubber Polyester Styrene (Styrofoam) Orlon Saran wrap Polyurethane Polyethylene (like Scotch tape) Polypropylene Vinyl (PVC) Silicon Teflon Silicone rubber Ebonite − After reading this we come to the conclusion that using leather gloves (provided they are you own and old weathered ones would be better) or nylon may be used for the purpose of this experiment instead of wool. @Sankar These things work but after some trying and regarding opening of cars if the it happens to be remote locking any car from a humble maruti 800 to a porsche 911 can be opened using something as simple as a walkie talkie by intercepting the signal of the remote locking with the walkie talkie at the the same set frequency. Last edited by Rehaan : 26th February 2007 at 09:41. Reason: 3 smileys
	() Thanks

19th February 2007, 19:55	#18
Sankar Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Location Posts: 5,766 Thanked: 9,054 Times	It might man, but under ideal test conditions. But if anyone has access to a multimeter, a rechargeable cell and some pure wool it can be found upto what extent it works. Revvedup, Opening the lock by electronic interference has a scientific basis. The video of the tennis ball technique to open the door i saw on youtube didn't have any scientific basis. How will air coming out of the ball push turn the lock cylinder and open the lock?
	() Thanks

20th February 2007, 10:55	#19
rajismine BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 539 Thanked: 280 Times View My Garage	A gr8 idea and a gr8 video to explain this. However i doubt it will really work with bigger battries like for my Safari DICOR. I guess I will have to rub for at least 30 mins....
	() Thanks