Should I get the indica clutch opened?

tsk1979 · 27th February 2007, 12:26

The Subject : 75,000 done June 2002 Indica
The Problem : When I start the car there is lot of vibration. By lot, I mean the kind which can cause earthquakes. If I just tap the accelerator once or press the clutch once it goes. If I keep the clutch presses while cranking, then it does not come. So not really an issue per se, but then they say "A stich in time...."
The Diagnosis : Some springs in the clutch may be worn out. The A.S.S. says, get the clutch opened, or wait it out since there is no other problem. There is no slippage issue, no clutch hard issue, and no other issues associated with bad plates. Though the service center service advisers would like to do an engine overhaul if your mileage drops, I have good rapport with the actual mechanics there, and one of them told me to leave it as it is. Get the clutch opened only when place replacement comes up, which he says is common around 100,000kms, which translates to 6 months+. Till then I can start the car with clutch depressed.

So if any of you has had experience with similar problems, could you let me know if its safe to keep going as it is. I don't want to be stranded on the road with a busted clutch.

Also if you could tell me how much this spring replacement costs, it will help.

navdeep · 27th February 2007, 12:33

Why wait for the day. Get it done as you are sure now that the problem is there and you know the solution.
call the guys and they will give you the estimate.

tsk1979 · 27th February 2007, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by navdeep

Why wait for the day. Get it done as you are sure now that the problem is there and you know the solution.
call the guys and they will give you the estimate.

Service center guys have an uncanny knack of spoiling 10 different things while partially fixing one. So I am scared of getting the original clutch opened. I don't trust them to put it back together properly, and unless its a big problem I am not going to let them touch the clutch.

esteem_lover · 27th February 2007, 12:42

Would advice you to get a complete clutch overhaul immediately. I have done this for my car very recently at 76k on the odo.

2fast4u · 27th February 2007, 12:52

first the cranking should always be with the clutch depressed as that way you dont put pressure on starter to turn the entire transmission to start. should be a practice at each start.

if you feel you need to do a clutch overhaul with 75K of driving experience you should do it. And your case seems a bit concerning as you mention engine shudder at start and this "could" get the "mountings" to crack and original replacements will be expensive.

btw i am driving with a similar problem of weak springs but there is shudder only when 1st gear is engaged after that its all fine. Its over 8 months now and NO issues. goodluck to u.

rks · 27th February 2007, 13:02

My Santro, which has done 44000 kms, does shudder at times in first/second/reverse gears. I notice this after driving the car for a while in start/stop traffic. But after driving on open roads over a period of time the shuddering reduces/disappears. I suspect that this is at least partially an issue with ECU/fuel injection. The local garage where I service the car has advised me that this is the first sign of clutch wear and right now there is no need to go in for clutch overhaul. They advise clutch overhaul only when there is slippage. The mounting was checked and tightened at 40000 kms and this reduced the problem for a while, but it has again come back about 4000 kms later.

SUV · 27th February 2007, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

The Subject : 75,000 done June 2002 Indica
The Problem : When I start the car there is lot of vibration. By lot, I mean the kind which can cause earthquakes. If I just tap the accelerator once or press the clutch once it goes. If I keep the clutch presses while cranking, then it does not come. So not really an issue per se, but then they say "A stich in time....".

A Wild Thought !! Do u think this could be related to a weak Engine Bedding / gear box mount ?... As you have stated that the clutch feel perse is not bad.....if the clutch was weak for any reason you should feel it ..... I might be wrong here but its worth the check ....

tsk1979 · 27th February 2007, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2fast4u

btw i am driving with a similar problem of weak springs but there is shudder only when 1st gear is engaged after that its all fine. Its over 8 months now and NO issues. goodluck to u.

The shudder goes away once I press the clutch and release or tap the accelerator and release. After that no shudder, no issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUV

A Wild Thought !! Do u think this could be related to a weak Engine Bedding / gear box mount ?... As you have stated that the clutch feel perse is not bad.....if the clutch was weak for any reason you should feel it ..... I might be wrong here but its worth the check ....

If that was the case then the vibration would be there at idle all the time. In my case it comes only at startup. Infact the service center guy increased the idling rpm slightly and there was no shudder. In my current state I start car with clutch depressed, or tap the accelerator once immediately after starting and there is no shudder.
Thats why they said its a spring issue. Plates etc., are all ok, and should last for atleast 100,000kms in their current state according to service center guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rks

My Santro, which has done 44000 kms, does shudder at times in first/second/reverse gears. I notice this after driving the car for a while in start/stop traffic. But after driving on open roads over a period of time the shuddering reduces/disappears. I suspect that this is at least partially an issue with ECU/fuel injection. The local garage where I service the car has advised me that this is the first sign of clutch wear and right now there is no need to go in for clutch overhaul. They advise clutch overhaul only when there is slippage. The mounting was checked and tightened at 40000 kms and this reduced the problem for a while, but it has again come back about 4000 kms later.

Shudder is there only while startup, and goes away once I press and release clutch once. It never comes again, not in any gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

Would advice you to get a complete clutch overhaul immediately. I have done this for my car very recently at 76k on the odo.

the plates are perfectly fine, and I don't want the service center to touch the factory clutch unless its absolutely necessary. I will go for a clutch overhaul when the plates wear out. Its pretty obvious because then there is lot of slippage which is noticable. Right now no such issue with clutch. There is no slippage, even on inclines, and top speed is also pretty good. Clutch is not at all hard and gear shift is also very smooth.

iraghava · 27th February 2007, 13:20

I would advise you to live with it & replace when the need is very apparent. No point putting in money now when she's not giving you trouble in normal running and according to you only there are significant chances that after the replacement she might come back with more problems than what she went in with! No worth the hassle right now methinks.

tsk1979 · 27th February 2007, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by iraghava

I would advise you to live with it & replace when the need is very apparent. No point putting in money now when she's not giving you trouble in normal running and according to you only there are significant chances that after the replacement she might come back with more problems than what she went in with! No worth the hassle right now methinks.

Precisely my thoughts. My only worry is that this spring issue should not lead to bigger problems which can be nipped in the bud now. I am not aware of what is the magnitude of problem as far as springs are concerned.
I also doubt the service center's diagnosis a bit. Is it really a spring issue, or something even more minor. This could be a problem with the gear bushkit, since it came shortly after the bushkit was replaced as routine maintainance.
Service centers are out there to make money so they would love to open the clutch and tell me plates are bad need replacement, blah blah.
Heck they even cleaned my intake manifold after 6000kms of cleaning it saying the car was operated in extreme dusty conditions. Normal intake manifold cleaning interval is 15000 kms.

esteem_lover · 27th February 2007, 13:35

I had a case of the spring breaking off in my old 118 NE Nissan Diesel Engine. I had to replace the entire assembly as a result of that (Not to sound negative). What a run around i had to do to get Nissan clutch plates !!

tsk1979 · 27th February 2007, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

I had a case of the spring breaking off in my old 118 NE Nissan Diesel Engine. I had to replace the entire assembly as a result of that (Not to sound negative). What a run around i had to do to get Nissan clutch plates !!

In indica's case if springs fail you don't need the entire assembly, just springs, atleast thats what the A.S.S. guys told me.
I guess on the next service which is due in another couple of thousand kms, I will ask them again.

tsk1979 · 27th February 2007, 14:01

One question for the more technically sound.
Does the indica have a Dual Mass flywheel(DMF). I think so because I remember once the car got stuck and there was slipping.
If thats the case there could be an issue with the friction ring wearing out.

hrag · 27th February 2007, 14:02

tsk1979, I'd say live with it till the clutch needs replacement or take your chances during the next service and get the springs replaced.

I have not faced anything like you mention in my car so far but I'll keep your message as a pointer. As an aside, I always start all cars with the clutch pedal depressed.

roms · 27th February 2007, 14:39

Tsk,the guys at the service centre are always waiting to make a quick buck.And if these guys are asking you to hold on to the clutch overhaul,then it might just be a minor issue.I think you should take a second opinion from a reputed garage.Someone advised me that a noise here or a small vibration there should generally be ignored,unless the matter is serious.And you are right, a factory fit is a factory fit.
On the other hand,sometimes the issue does keep playing on your mind,especially if you know that the issue can be resolved.Tough call really.I would be confused as well if I were in your place.
I guess you could hold on to it for now.See if it gets any worse and then take a decision.

27th February 2007, 12:26	#1
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,718 Thanked: 22,826 Times View My Garage	Should I get the indica clutch opened? The Subject : 75,000 done June 2002 Indica The Problem : When I start the car there is lot of vibration. By lot, I mean the kind which can cause earthquakes. If I just tap the accelerator once or press the clutch once it goes. If I keep the clutch presses while cranking, then it does not come. So not really an issue per se, but then they say "A stich in time...." The Diagnosis : Some springs in the clutch may be worn out. The A.S.S. says, get the clutch opened, or wait it out since there is no other problem. There is no slippage issue, no clutch hard issue, and no other issues associated with bad plates. Though the service center service advisers would like to do an engine overhaul if your mileage drops, I have good rapport with the actual mechanics there, and one of them told me to leave it as it is. Get the clutch opened only when place replacement comes up, which he says is common around 100,000kms, which translates to 6 months+. Till then I can start the car with clutch depressed. So if any of you has had experience with similar problems, could you let me know if its safe to keep going as it is. I don't want to be stranded on the road with a busted clutch. Also if you could tell me how much this spring replacement costs, it will help.
	() Thanks

27th February 2007, 12:33	#2
navdeep BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 892 Thanked: 4 Times	Why wait for the day. Get it done as you are sure now that the problem is there and you know the solution. call the guys and they will give you the estimate.
	() Thanks

27th February 2007, 12:42	#4
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	Would advice you to get a complete clutch overhaul immediately. I have done this for my car very recently at 76k on the odo.
	() Thanks

27th February 2007, 12:52	#5
2fast4u BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: pune / Bahrain Posts: 488 Thanked: 7 Times View My Garage	first the cranking should always be with the clutch depressed as that way you dont put pressure on starter to turn the entire transmission to start. should be a practice at each start. if you feel you need to do a clutch overhaul with 75K of driving experience you should do it. And your case seems a bit concerning as you mention engine shudder at start and this "could" get the "mountings" to crack and original replacements will be expensive. btw i am driving with a similar problem of weak springs but there is shudder only when 1st gear is engaged after that its all fine. Its over 8 months now and NO issues. goodluck to u. Last edited by 2fast4u : 27th February 2007 at 12:53.
	() Thanks

27th February 2007, 13:02	#6
rks BANNED Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ?? Posts: 1,238 Thanked: 17 Times	My Santro, which has done 44000 kms, does shudder at times in first/second/reverse gears. I notice this after driving the car for a while in start/stop traffic. But after driving on open roads over a period of time the shuddering reduces/disappears. I suspect that this is at least partially an issue with ECU/fuel injection. The local garage where I service the car has advised me that this is the first sign of clutch wear and right now there is no need to go in for clutch overhaul. They advise clutch overhaul only when there is slippage. The mounting was checked and tightened at 40000 kms and this reduced the problem for a while, but it has again come back about 4000 kms later.
	() Thanks

27th February 2007, 13:20	#9
iraghava Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bhaiyyaland Posts: 8,033 Thanked: 265 Times View My Garage	I would advise you to live with it & replace when the need is very apparent. No point putting in money now when she's not giving you trouble in normal running and according to you only there are significant chances that after the replacement she might come back with more problems than what she went in with! No worth the hassle right now methinks.
	() Thanks

27th February 2007, 13:35	#11
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	I had a case of the spring breaking off in my old 118 NE Nissan Diesel Engine. I had to replace the entire assembly as a result of that (Not to sound negative). What a run around i had to do to get Nissan clutch plates !!
	() Thanks

27th February 2007, 14:01	#13
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,718 Thanked: 22,826 Times View My Garage	One question for the more technically sound. Does the indica have a Dual Mass flywheel(DMF). I think so because I remember once the car got stuck and there was slipping. If thats the case there could be an issue with the friction ring wearing out.
	() Thanks

27th February 2007, 14:02	#14
hrag BANNED Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bangalore / Madras Posts: 1,982 Thanked: 31 Times	tsk1979, I'd say live with it till the clutch needs replacement or take your chances during the next service and get the springs replaced. I have not faced anything like you mention in my car so far but I'll keep your message as a pointer. As an aside, I always start all cars with the clutch pedal depressed.
	() Thanks

27th February 2007, 14:39	#15
roms BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 641 Thanked: 26 Times	Tsk,the guys at the service centre are always waiting to make a quick buck.And if these guys are asking you to hold on to the clutch overhaul,then it might just be a minor issue.I think you should take a second opinion from a reputed garage.Someone advised me that a noise here or a small vibration there should generally be ignored,unless the matter is serious.And you are right, a factory fit is a factory fit. On the other hand,sometimes the issue does keep playing on your mind,especially if you know that the issue can be resolved.Tough call really.I would be confused as well if I were in your place. I guess you could hold on to it for now.See if it gets any worse and then take a decision. Last edited by roms : 27th February 2007 at 14:46.
	() Thanks