[Reinhard]

So I'm wondering what did the service guys do during the service, that resulted in the cat-con needing a boosted Italian cleaning? Or the exhaust system was already clogged before the service and the car would have failed the test even before the service? Curious. An EGR valve cleaning so soon is also interesting. I never let them touch it unless the car shows any symptoms that warrant it.

Originally Posted by SahilS

Interesting solution which solved OP's problem.
How to Italian tune automatic cars? Same problem can come in an automatic too. Even if we engage manual mode on an automatic, automatic transmission will still upshift when rpms are approaching red line, so effectively, it will be very difficult or maybe impossible to do this in an automatic.

For AMTs, the cars hold to redline & don't upshift. For other auto-boxes, red-lining on neutral should be the way to go about it.

[TSIVTEC]

Originally Posted by SahilS

Interesting solution which solved OP's problem.
How to Italian tune automatic cars? Same problem can come in an automatic too. Even if we engage manual mode on an automatic, automatic transmission will still upshift when rpms are approaching red line, so effectively, it will be very difficult or maybe impossible to do this in an automatic.

It depends on the car.I have a brio A/T and a Crysta 2.8.In the brio I can lock it into 1st or 2nd gear and it won't upshift unless you shift to D3 or D mode.The Crysta has a tiptronic function wherein I can limit the gear it can shift up to.
Most modern automatics though shift up to avoid heat build up.

Originally Posted by Reinhard

For AMTs, the cars hold to redline & don't upshift. For other auto-boxes, red-lining on neutral should be the way to go about it.

The brio's ECU figures out if you rev it in neutral and limits the revs to 4500rpm compared to its 6600rpm limiter.Similar behaviour is seen in vag dsg gearboxes too.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by SahilS

Even if we engage manual mode on an automatic, automatic transmission will still upshift when rpms are approaching red line, so effectively, it will be very difficult or maybe impossible to do this in an automatic.

Originally Posted by Reinhard

For AMTs, the cars hold to redline & don't upshift. For other auto-boxes, red-lining on neutral should be the way to go about it.

Italian tune-up should be done when the engine is loaded, revving it high without load is not an ideal thing for the engine. Having said that you don't to really redline to get this done, one just has to keep the engine at a higher RPM range. Say 300 to 3500 is a good enough RPM as long as it can be held for a longer time frame.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by SahilS

...Even if we engage manual mode on an automatic, automatic transmission will still upshift when rpms are approaching red line,...

I remember seeing a D1 or D2 in auto boxes, does your car have one? But still try not to do the Italian Tune in neutral, may do more harm than good, or may not be effective at all.

Originally Posted by Reinhard

...An EGR valve cleaning so soon is also interesting. I never let them touch it unless the car shows any symptoms that warrant it....

Whoever gets a EGR clean done by the service center, I would suggest to stand by and witness it when the system is out of the engine bay. Its a pig of a job to take it out, and I really suspect how many service centers go about getting it done. In a few cars like my Chevy Sail UVA, the engine has to be taken out of engine bay to access a few bolts hidden away deep inside.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Italian tune-up should be done when the engine is loaded....

Exactly, the turbo waste-gate characteristics change a lot at neutral-1st-2nd-3rd and so on. I find the sweet spot in 2nd and 3rd gear acceleration for a tune up purpose.

[Narencar]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

I remember seeing a D1 or D2 in auto boxes, does your car have one? But still try not to do the Italian Tune in neutral, may do more harm than good, or may not be effective at all.



Whoever gets a EGR clean done by the service center, I would suggest to stand by and witness it when the system is out of the engine bay. Its a pig of a job to take it out, and I really suspect how many service centers go about getting it done. In a few cars like my Chevy Sail UVA, the engine has to be taken out of engine bay to access a few bolts hidden away deep inside.



Exactly, the turbo waste-gate characteristics change a lot at neutral-1st-2nd-3rd and so on. I find the sweet spot in 2nd and 3rd gear acceleration for a tune up purpose.

I witnessed the same and its very typical to open the EGR and it took almost 2 hours, cleaning and refixing the same again took 2 hours. Mechanic hand access to the EGR in Fiat 1.3 multijet engine (which is used by Fiat, Maruti Suzuki, Tata, Chevrolet) is very limited and that's why taking lot of time.

In service centers they people are changing all consumables including hose pipes, gasket seals, clamp and bolts which is a good practice as if you will get done the same job outside the service centers they use the same hose pipes, gaskets, clamp and bolts and that would lead to malfunction or leakages later on.

[akshaysawant]

Originally Posted by Narencar

Thanks sir. I tried the Italian Tune today and it worked. Now the HSU% is 2.5% only. This was 55% earlier.


I trusted MSM and they did their job very well today. They cleaned the intercooler to my satisfaction as well.

Please find out why there was so much oil there. If this is not sorted, your problem will re-occur and carbon deposits will increase and even reach your car's turbo, ultimately affecting the performance.

[vnabhi]

Good to know that things got sorted out.

As regards EGR cleaning, how does one know if it is needed? I have a Figo tdci that is 7 years old with 80k on the odo. I'd like to know if its EGR needs to be cleaned. Car is running fine on the stock clutch and suspension.

Would appreciate pointers to this question.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

As regards EGR cleaning, how does one know if it is needed? I have a Figo TDCi that is 7 years old with 80k on the odo. I'd like to know if its EGR needs to be cleaned.

I can think of the following points if the EGR hasn't been cleaned:

1. Black smoke will be on the higher side,
2. FE drop (keeping rest variables common)
3. Sluggish acceleration and poor driveability.

If the EGR has never been cleaned, I'll say do get it cleaned once.

[vnabhi]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

I can think of the following points if the EGR hasn't been cleaned:

1. Black smoke will be on the higher side,
2. FE drop (keeping rest variables common)
3. Sluggish acceleration and poor driveability.

If the EGR has never been cleaned, I'll say do get it cleaned once.

Thanks man. It's due for 80k service, and I plan to get the timing belt changed also. Will add EGR cleaning to the list.

[Slickshift99]

That is plain unacceptable for a new car to fail the puc tests. Apart from that i would want you to know about a puc scam that i had been a victim to. I had gone to get the pollution certificate made for my i10 kappa 2010 recently, the guy at the testing booth did his usual testing and said “ sir, your car is not passing the test but i can help you for a 100 bucks”
I thought of getting it checked from another station and it passed, this bought me to doubt that the previous guy is simply fooling the common public to make some cash.
To verify my doubt i took my 2014 ritz zdi for a puc check to him after about 2 weeks from the previous incident. To my shock it was the same story again, he demanded Rs-120 to pass the vehicle somehow, i got into the booth to check the stats for CO2 and Hydrocarbons. The device showed digits exceeding the permissible limit, he then somehow manipulated the digits and asked me if i would like to continue. I immidiately went to a nearby petrol pump and good lord! the car passed without any hassle.
Never went to that puc testing station again, can the testing equipment be hacked or manipulated anyhow? This has been one of a kind incident in my driving years.

[autocrat]

We also need to keep in mind that fuel quality plays an important role in meeting emission limits.

Poor quality adulterated fuel can result in bad emission numbers, and I have typically seen that some bunks on highways are dishing such fuel out. Prolonged use of such fuels can adversely impact the efficiency of CatCons.

Other causes can be coolant fumes / oil getting into exhaust, which may be due to head gasket issues or worn piston rings.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

As regards EGR cleaning, how does one know if it is needed? I have a Figo tdci that is 7 years old with 80k on the odo. I'd like to know if its EGR needs to be cleaned.

If you are happy with the pick-up, mileage & power delivery smoothness - I'd suggest don't even think about it. If any of these start appearing to be falling usual levels, then get EGR cleaned. Not otherwise is what I stick to.

[varunsangal]

Originally Posted by Narencar

Can anybody help me to understand whats the issue with the car? Is something wrong with the catalytic converter, or something went wrong while they were cleaning the EGR?

The morons at MASS keep forgetting that if the oil filter is NOT replaced in the service, the oil to be filled in is only 2.9 liters and not 3.1 liters. Given this was a 30k service, the oil filter was not due for a change and now your car has ~3.2 Lts engine oil and it contaminates the entire system, intercooler, EGR, injectors.

The Italian tuneup will temporarily solve the problem until the soot builds up again and the smoke becomes black. The solution is to refill the oil to exact 3.1 lts counting what is in the filter and then clean the entire system including the injectors.

While Maruti has literally sold lakhs of the the 1.3 DDiS, unfortunately only a precious few at MASS actually know how to maintain it.

[dashoin]

I have been in the same boat lately - 2018 Ciaz 1.4 AT petrol. The Italian tune up does work. The AT does a wonderful job of restricting the rpm to about 2000 in the city.
The PUC in Pune is online and my car with 11k km failed at 2 “mobile” PUC online test centres. I visited the dealer workshop and was told that their PUC equipment is out of service. I was asked to get it checked outside and revert back in case pf a problem. I got it checked at a HP COCO and it passed. Only difference this time was that I was in 2 instead of D so the engine rpm was going upto 4 -4.5 k at city speeds.

OT : I was pretty impressed by the way the dealer workshop dealt with the issue - no checks or questions by them and I was out of the gate with the same problem within 10 minutes. Guess I would take it to a NEXA workshop the next service to see if I get some better treatment