[sridhu]

That 'conundrum' in the title is only for alliterative effect. There is no conundrum - it is very clear that just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

Look at this twitter thread and understand the travails of this lady

Because there was no cell connection, the lady was not able to start her car. Please understand - there was nothing wrong with the car mechanically. She had enough fuel. But she could not start the car because the car could not get permission from its robot overlord. She waited 3 hours for a tow truck to tow her to 'civilization' so that she can start her car.

I am no Luddite (I am a cyber security consultant) but this indiscriminate connecting of things that need no connectivity and smartening of things that need no intelligence is a use case nightmare; to say nothing about the security issues that result from it.

[GTO]

Connected cars are definitely opening up many potential problem areas. Being vulnerable to cyber attacks, privacy concerns, additional costs (as manufacturers look at subscription revenue), reliability...

Here's another issue that had recently come up. Tesla owners were locked out of their cars for a while when the app faced an outage:

Smartphone apps go down all the time, but rarely do they affect your ability to drive your car. On Labor Day, though, some Tesla owners were unable to get into their vehicles thanks to an outage with the official Tesla app.

The app has a feature called Phone Key that turns a smartphone into, well, a key. It can be used to lock and unlock a Model 3 without ever taking the phone out of a pocket. Tesla even recommends Phone Key be used as the "primary method of accessing and starting your vehicle," according to the company's website.

But relying solely on Phone Key can be a bad idea, it turns out. Starting at around 4 p.m. Pacific time on Monday, Tesla's mobile app became unavailable for what Tesla says was a brief time. The company says that full functionality was restored soon after the outage was reported, but that was enough time for the internet to notice. Some drivers, among them Kyle Field, a Tesla owner and an editor at CleanTechnica, experienced it as a minor issue.

Source

[vb-saan]

Smart features without a manual override can create problem (and many times a big one). I also feel that huge reliance on cloud or on-the-air updates can have its own negative impacts as well. Some over-smart person can easily plant a bug/virus which can impact a large set of automobiles. We may see car companies selling a Norton/Mcafee solution as an optional pack.

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by sridhu

Because there was no cell connection, the lady was not able to start her car. Please understand - there was nothing wrong with the car mechanically. She had enough fuel. But she could not start the car because the car could not get permission from its robot overlord. She waited 3 hours for a tow truck to tow her to 'civilization' so that she can start her car.

In another thread, I had remarked that the biggest trend cutting across industries in today’s time is Convergence. Technology is the biggest reason for this, and connected cars are one of the byproducts of this trend.

Adding to what was already posted above, the biggest and maybe the only concern I have on connected cars is cyber security. Fear of someone taking control of my car remotely is the ultimate death knell when it comes to the joy of owning and driving one.
Going through what the lady posted on Twitter about her experience, it plainly felt like a design issue. If my car needs a 4G connection every few hours for an OTA update to remain in working condition, then this is just poor product design

[audioholic]

This happened to me in India itself in our own desi Bounce scooter sharing platform recently. Bounce has got this new unique system of unlocking the scooter via bluetooth and the most stupid part of this is it still requires internet to somehow start the trip. What is the point of having a bluetooth unlock and yet requiring internet, except from ensuring that the phone is near the scooter.

I got off my regular commuter train in Bengaluru City railway station and found a scooter parked somewhere close to the railway station where there is a huge railway colony for staff. As I navigated my way into this colony, I realised that my phone started losing network strength. I got close to the scooter and the internet connection was almost gone. The scooter connected to my phone over bluetooth and though I tried to start the trip, I couldnt since there was no internet connection. If I move away from the scooter to a place where I could get internet, the bluetooth connection was lost and this got very irritating. After ten minutes of struggle, I was able to find a spot in the area which could provide both an internet connection and proximity to the vehicle and was then able to start it. Whoever designs such systems and expects it to offer a flawless experience must just do something else in life

[ascii]

Originally Posted by GTO

Connected cars are definitely opening up many potential problem areas. Being vulnerable to cyber attacks, privacy concerns, additional costs (as manufacturers look at subscription revenue), reliability..

Indeed.
Do you see any other reliability issues other than irritation/annoyance/out-right life threatening risk all due to unavailability of network?
I also see following potential issues

1. Badly handled/Unhandled failures of OTA updates requiring costly "motherboard" upgrades
2. Ransomware attacks
3. Fine-grained analysis of user behaviour (driving, feature usages, fuelling & maintenance behavior) leading to new business models that are possibly restrictive or leading to higher TCO, as companies try to monetize every aspect.
4. Above can also lead to companies trying to control how you use the product
5. Reduction in flexibility as Cars becoming more "personal" like mobile : Control by own devices/biometrics, driving behaviour analysis (so sharing vehicle may be counter productive)

[momsonlydriver]

Greetings BHPians!

Lately we have purchased a connected car and during a casual conversation with my parents regarding being conscious as to which places I shouldn't be taking the car - this question struck my brain : Are these new connected cars recoverable after theft?

Lately I came across this blog: Stolen Fortuners, Innovas, Cretas - seized

Why stating connected cars being stolen in the first place?

According to the above article none of the cars were connected cars (as this technology is relatively new) but theifs are working out of their comfort zone to find new ways to work around the car security system.

These cars have an embedded immobilizer which the brands claims that it can be activated after placing an FIR with your local police department:

https://youtu.be/61SeEzk4JEg

At timestamp 5:22

So I start this topic of discussion to view your point and assumptions if these systems are actually reliable to get back a stolen car or is it a waste of subscription?(Free for first 3 years)

Currently the cars that are offering the connected car technology in our Indian market are: MG Hector, Kia Seltos, Kia Carnival, Hyundai Venue, Hyundai Elantra, Hyundai Verna, Hyundai Creta.

Do note that the Creta is very popular among the car jackers (due to its resale value) and it should be no different for the new Creta and it's sibling Seltos.

[libranof1987]

Here's some reading exercise for you!

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...cted-cars.html (The potential problems with "connected" cars)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...erattacks.html (Are 'Connected Cars' vulnerable to cyberattacks?)

[Brishti]

Let alone connected tech even PEPS type system is a suspect. In Thailand I had seen people capturing the radio signature of a key and then reproducing the same to unlock the car.

While the above was used for a legal situation something similar can also be used illegally.

[J4J]

Originally Posted by momsonlydriver

Are these new connected cars recoverable after theft?

Friend, with connected technology and internet, people need not even physically steal cars. Recently there are lot of ransomware attacks on computers & servers.
Lets say you are in a trip and someone stops your car in middle of nowhere. Then, they demand you money for recovering your car. What would you do to recover from such a situation with your family?
Though with current level of connectivity features(except for very few cars) it may not look possible but in future this maybe a reality.

[ButterRider 7]

The primary safety risk with connected cars is the possibility of remote control of the car. The most extreme risk would be crashing a car by taking over control of steering, braking or acceleration. Other serious risks include control of the stereo volume, lights, horn, windshield wipers, and other features. Hackers have demonstrated that it is possible to hijack control of all of those features in cars currently on the streets. Privacy risks stem from tracking and sharing information about driving habits and location. Built-in, plug-in, and mobile device apps can all share information with someone remotely, providing the opportunity for monitoring and control. Manufacturers also store information collected from the vehicles, which can pose a privacy risk for unauthorized access.