[ds.raikkonen]

Originally Posted by Sahil

I personally hate the fake sounds. Only cars I would find them acceptable are EVs. I first heard this when I test drove the C43 AMG and it's even there in our GLC when you put it in sports mode, I have stopped putting that car in that mode because of this.

I can get the fact that the C43 has this feature, but the GLC too?! Which variant?

Blame the turbocharged down-sized engines.

[Sahil]

Originally Posted by ds.raikkonen

I can get the fact that the C43 has this feature, but the GLC too?! Which variant?

Blame the turbocharged down-sized engines.

GLC 300 Petrol 4matic

[sachin2612]

My Ford Endeavour has active noise cancellation with 3 mic producing opposite sound waves. With music turned off, initially i had some unpleasant feeling and now i have got used to it. I really appreciate this feature as my endeavour cabin is so quiet compared to my old gen Toyota Fortuner which has a noisy cabin even though both have big diesel motors.

I would really like to have this feature in my future cars and with setting options such as to turn it off or have a low/high level of noise cancellation just like bose and Sony headphones do.

[saur95]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

However - I fail to understand the need of all this. I don't get why humans are trying so desperately hard to be disconnected from the realities. So much so that fake experience during a car drive is needed. The way real experiences are loosing value to virtual once in absolutely everything, is quite amusing to me.

Considering how most people spend hours daily in traffic, I'm not surprised if they'd want a little disconnect. Plus, I've always felt that a majority of car buyers have little to no interest in driving (you can see it in the way they drive) and it's merely a convenience/privilege. Chauffeur driven folk will especially appreciate noise cancelling. Throw in some sun blinds (peasant blockers *cough cough*) and it becomes a cocoon.

I completely understand if one is on a drive through serene landscape though. Even makes for the perfect environment to open up the sunroof, a feature that people often claim to be unnecessary for vehicles considering they never leave the city.

This is where choosing option packs based on an individual's usage would have really helped.

Originally Posted by Sahil

I personally hate the fake sounds. Only cars I would find them acceptable are EVs. I first heard this when I test drove the C43 AMG and it's even there in our GLC when you put it in sports mode, I have stopped putting that car in that mode because of this.

I'm definitely against synthesised fake sound. However, it's too much to expect a raucous engine note in the cabin when luxury buyers demand low cabin NVH. The Porsche 911 & Panamera GTS pumps in the actual engine note which I think is a win-win in such a situation. Again, this costs more than a synthesised engine note and is probably only justified in a genuinely sporty vehicle like a Porsche, an AMG or an M car.

Originally Posted by sachin2612

My Ford Endeavour has active noise cancellation with 3 mic producing opposite sound waves.

Yes, I was just going to mention this. Quite a revelation considering it was launched in India years back. Definitely an underrated feature in what is quite a loaded SUV.

The Endeavour has only in-cabin microphones (2 if I'm not wrong?) and produces a common set of opposing frequencies for the entire car unlike the GV80 which is an evolution of this technology, with microphones in each wheel well and individual speakers pumping out opposing frequencies based on position in the car. Definitely quite an impressive piece of tech.

I'm surprised they've even added external loudspeakers in the GV80. I mean, why bother?!

[hkborah]

The first place I saw it in was the Honda Accord 3.5 v6.
Compared to my 2.4 it's silent on the inside.
Guess it works.

[JBIBS]

I am sure whatever we are worried about in here, the industry developing it must have taken more than that into consideration. Tech is the way to go and am really happy that this is in the right direction. Why change car interiors to add bulky sound deadening material which only adds to the weight, and also disturbs maintenance. Also, if it were so beneficial, manufacturers would use that to save money instead of investing in tech. With all the deadening material which I have added in my Altis, over and above what Toyota has provided, I have tasted only partial results.

I also don't believe that researchers will find an Achilles heel to identify different wavelengths and frequencies which need to be eliminated from all that creeps into a car.

Only time will tell what will come out of this research upfront. But am quite optimistic that we will get there. Someday only Ravan and Greek Gods flew. I just hope that this reaches mass market cars sooner than later.

[rutwij]

Having worked on Ford/Lincoln products in the not to recent past (including Active Noise Control & Cancellation), here is the what, how and why - which hopefully makes it easier to understand.

Basically, they are two separate entities:
1. Active Noise Cancellation & 2. Active Noise Control

A vehicle can have either one or both working in conjunction.

"Cancellation" works like typical noise cancelling headphones which uses internal microphones (inside cabin) and sensors (or mic) outside the cabin to measure the difference in sound levels, amplitudes/frequency and tonal quality. This is then calibrated and tuned (secret sauce) per vehicle (sedan, SUV, sports car, etc.) depending upon the size, area of the vehicle and where the occupant's ears are with respect to speaker position.
The main target is to reduce the road noise which is mostly drone-ny/repetitive like a jet engine in an aircraft.

"Control" is something that the OEM can "pipe into the cabin" via speakers (a.k.a fake engine sound) to enhance the engine noise/tonal quality. The amount of tweaking is actually limitless! A small 4 cylinder engine can be very convincingly calibrated as a V8 (even an EV can sound like a V8!) and most people wouldn't come to know if executed correctly. The best part of doing this ("control") is that the OEM can cut out the less pleasing sounds of the engine (in particular sound bands/frequencies) and keep only the good sounding tones along with some artificial sound additions.

Both of these (Cancellation & Control) have to be done for different engines, at all engine speeds with all types of interior complexities (leather seats don't absorb as much sound as a car with cloth seats!), etc..
The calibration even changes with a car having a sunroof vs a car having no sunroof since the NVH properties vary with headliner thickness.

Now you might be wondering if all this actually works and if a lay man can feel the difference in car while driving? - Fair Question. The answer is Yes!

After doing multiple back-to-back vehicle evaluations of 2 similar vehicles (same year, same engine, same trim level, etc.), one with ANC and one without, you would never want to drive a non-ANC vehicle again, really!
The cabin feels much quieter (compared to a non-ANC vehicle) and as an added advantage, the audio (music) performance goes up considerably in terms of clarity and punch.

Hope this helps and hope I have not confused more

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by rutwij

Having worked on Ford/Lincoln products in the not to recent past (including Active Noise Control & Cancellation), here is the what, how and why - which hopefully makes it easier to understand.

Basically, they are two separate entities:
1. Active Noise Cancellation & 2. Active Noise Control

I had never imagined we would live to see such a day! As car enthusiasts we certain exhaust notes were melody to our ears and we would vie hard just to catch a feel of some special cars. Sure, for years we have had people modifying their exhausts for better 'sound' - for lack of a better term, but this is next level!
Additionally, we truly are living in FAKE times. From deepfake videos to fake exhaust sound in EVs, we as a species are obsessed with not accepting reality for what it is and contorting it to what suits us and our wants.

[motonomad]

Originally Posted by ds.raikkonen

My understanding is that it will cancel the 'unwanted' part and not the essential 'ambient noise', apart from reducing noise dampening material usage on cars in a bid to increase FE. Still, after using a noise canceling headphone, I've felt that it creates a slightly uncomfortable feeling or may be I am just not used to it. Thoughts?

I would say it is very much about getting used to it. I believe you have recently moved to noise cancelling headphones or tried one that was at the extreme of its life (very new or very old, please correct me if wrong).


Most people find it a little uncomfortable when the noises they have gradually gotten used to in the background suddenly disappear. We are just not used to 'not hearing' them. There are couple of limitations as well. On some mid range headphones imbalances in the anti-noise signal may cause one to feel uneasy but that is not the case with high end ones like Bose QC35 or Sony 1000xm3. Also changes in headset distortion levels or frequency response (typically with age) can alter the quality of noise cancellation and audio processing almost always creates some sort of very faint hissing noise.


I have been using noise cancelling headphones for around two years now and I can't recommend them enough. Imagine being able to listen to music at 40 percent volume at Andheri station on a weekday evening.

Broadly speaking, it is easier to filter out low frequency sounds that are in a pattern, like airplane engine, AC compression, fan noise and it keeps getting more complicated and riskier to try and contain high frequency sounds (like horns) that break patterns. To cancel out all audio, there has to be almost no delay in the noise being recorded and cancellation signal being played, which requires lot of processing power and battery to fuel the same. Moreover, any lag will have compounding effect instead of cancellation, thus riskier. In all likelihood most of the headphones we have used rely on average inputs over short intervals.

Originally Posted by sachin2612

My Ford Endeavour has active noise cancellation with 3 mic producing opposite sound waves. With music turned off, initially i had some unpleasant feeling and now i have got used to it.

Was about to mention this. As far as I know, the mics are placed in / around the engine bay and primarily focus on cutting down the engine noise. While the acoustics of a car are messy, a system like this, similar to mid range headphones, is a safer bet to deal only with the major noise source - engine, and it does a pretty good job.


As far as I know, the Hyundai system (and couple of others including one by Bose) rely on predicting rather than reacting to the noise. The data is coming from accelerometers for vibration / movement and mics for audio like the original post mentions and in cabin mic to tailor as frequencies change with vehicle age/condition.

While it may appear less relevant right now, this is a long term investment by these companies. These systems will be almost indispensable once electric cars are mainstream because:
1- No engine noise, other noises like tyres, suspension and even squeaks are more prominent
2- Electric cars are heavier already because of batteries, this would allow for the weight to be clipped in other places
Of course there are noise control tricks with fake sounds but my guess is that unless mandated by law, car makers would try to limit them to low end vehicles only

[ds.raikkonen]

Originally Posted by motonomad

I would say it is very much about getting used to it. I believe you have recently moved to noise cancelling headphones or tried one that was at the extreme of its life (very new or very old, please correct me if wrong).

I think they were new ones, though not mine. I prefer in-ear plugs as they too block out some noise in a far less complicated manner and price.

[motonomad]

Originally Posted by ds.raikkonen

I think they were new ones, though not mine. I prefer in-ear plugs as they too block out some noise in a far less complicated manner and price.

In all likelihood, a scenario of simply not getting used to them then.
Even with noise cancellation headphones, major part of the noise is cut by the material and design. Plus in terms of audio quality, headphones with ANC can't really match the ones without.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

I admire such technologies simply as a reflection of how intelligent & capable the human race has become. Remarkable people these who can think of such things & manage to make them a reality.

Also - these technologies after-all create a lot of direct & indirect jobs also in the ecosystem. So thats one more positive about it.

However - I fail to understand the need of all this. I don't get why humans are trying so desperately hard to be disconnected from the realities. So much so that fake experience during a car drive is needed. The way real experiences are loosing value to virtual once in absolutely everything, is quite amusing to me.

Sir,

Have you tried ANC in a headset? I have used a mid level ANC headphone every single day for over a year (god bless badly designed noisy offices with impolite idiots who cluster on a table and take conference calls on speakerphones).

ANC can only mute the droning low frequency noises (think jet aircraft engine whine). Every non-constant noise will instead be more acutely filtered and hence pseudo amplified.

Taking calls on that headset was a pain since I could hear background noises perfectly.

It may get silent on American freeways but in bharat, you need not worry - every real world noise will filter through. Chill sir.

This is ideal for tyre noise on highways.