[katsumoto]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

It is a gamble my friend

Originally Posted by GTO

That's why, when buying pre-owned, I always insist on:

- Getting full service records.

I was hell bent on showing the car to my mechanic. Since i am paying mechanic to inspect the car, I can not just take all the cars.

Once i am confident on the car and the dealer, then only I take it to mechanic. I took 4 cars to him (all are hyundai creta/verna 1.6 CRDi - He is a Hyundai service advisor). 2 were showing proper records one's ODO was reduced by a whooping 45K One was having recent accident history. He sensed with part replacement. Finally I bought one knowing the problems (Clutch was tight - not mentioned in Cars24 report) reduced the price for those problems not mentioned in Cars24.

Patience is the Virtue here. And have to wait for right moment / right car. You should be ready to do some compromise like Colour or Variant. But It really takes your mind. Lot of times I asked myself is it really worth the effort. I mean For the amount I save, Is it really worth the effort? It nearly took 8 months.

Finally it is been a month since i brought Creta, Now I can sense it is worth the effort but got to wait at-least 6 months for the verdict.

But How do i do the service verification for other brand cars? I think i will just leave the car even if it is showing promising but the owner/dealer is not willing to give out the service records.

[DrCar]

I can corelate well with this thread since I bought 2 preowned car and got a complete different experiences to share:

1. 2009 Swift diesel.
Bought at 81000 kilometers and sold at 86000 kilometers. Bought it directly from a owner who was a customer of my dad. Engine was good when we bought, but immediately after few months injectors failed and paint started showing up.
Car was a repainted one. We made a big mistake of checking the car in the basement parking of a building during night time while buying it, and so couldn't judge the paint better then. The nail in the coffin was stuck when one of common friend of my dad and the original owner told us that he use to drive the same car exclusively for 6 months on the stretch on the highway. Car had a frontal collision as well once. The owner never bothered to mention us about this inspite of us knowing each other. Realised then that odometer was tampered. Anyways sold the car immediately as the car wasn't mechanically tight and safe. Realised that even if you are buying a car from a known person, better get the complete checkup done by a competent mechanic before buying.

2. Used Etios diesel 2013.
Bought at 110000 kilometers on the odo. Still going strong at 125000 now. Got it from a dealer and got lucky. Sounds unbelievable, right? We actually were checking out a 2010 Ritz diesel at the said dealer and paid the token, when one of their employee drove in a Etios diesel bought from the owner half hour back. The car had scratches in few places and the right side taillight was broken. We requested the dealer to allow us to check the car. He obliged and himself accompanied us for the test drive. We loved the car and its feel. When we were checking the documents, what we found out was a surprise to both me and the dealer. The car was always maintained at the authorised service center from day 1. Last service record was at 105000 kilometers. Major part such as suspension, clutch and tyres were changed at around 100000 kilometers. All the bills were in place. We immediately decided to go for the bigger Etios and requested dealer to consider the token given for Ritz to be transferred to Etios. Slight paint touch up and rear light was replacement was done by the dealer himself.
Luckily we were at the right place at the right moment. Odometer readings didn't matter for us as the car was in a good condition and taken care of well by the previous.

Moral - Never ever go blindly trusting any person even remotely known to you before buying a used car. You also need a bit of luck on your side while buying a car from a dealer.

[Games Goblin]

Some members in previous posts have mentioned that in case of digital odometers in modern vehicles, the mileage may be stored in more than one module - I know for a fact that this is true for some VW group vehicles (older ones) -

VW group cars having the engine ECU type as the Bosch EDC16 (PD-engine era) stores the mileage inside the ECU in addition to the instrument cluster - so the mileage is stored in 2 places - if someone tampers with the instrument cluster and leaves the ECU alone, then it is possible to read the real mileage in the ECU (VCDS has an option to do this). Of course, a skilled tamperer can also change the counter in the ECU.

EDC 17 VW group cars (common rail ones) do not have this feature as far as I know.

I remember reading that other manufacturer cars also store the mileage in multiple control modules (inside the ABS module etc)- anyone having more info on the same may please share.

Regards

[ElonSkum]

I have a friend here who is professionally into manipulating odo readings. He tells me some newer models are difficult to tamper with as there's some kind of encrypted handshake mechanism between the display unit and the ECU.

[arun_josie]

I didn't know that odometer tampering is so easy.

My previous car Linea had run little over 1,90,000 Kms when I exchanged it for Jeep Compass @ PPS Motors, Bangalore. Later after few days, one of the team-bhpian spotted my car in OLX for sale. Interesting part was, it said 90,379 Kms driven car. When I checked with the dealer on this they said that the car was handed over to a used car dealer and they had put it on OLX for sale (The car pic posted in OLX was taken in a different location and not inside the dealer campus). When I contacted the number posted in OLX, they said this car has run 90K Kms only. However the same day this Ad was pulled out from OLX as sold. Dealer kept saying that the ODO was not tampered and they bought the car back to the dealership.

After that I didn't follow up on the events and the car was sold eventually. If ODO is so easy to tamper, then there are chances that my car's ODO was tampered to 90K Kms and then taken back to the original number after my complaint. OR they would have still sold it as a 90K Kms car.

The car was well maintained, so maybe be due to that the buyer didn't get any doubt about the ODO. And this car was sold to someone in Mandya which is 100 Kms away from Bangalore and there is no Fiat Service center there. However, If he had taken a little effort and checked at one of the FASS in bangalore, he would have got the complete information as all the services were done at FASS.

Here is the pic from OLX indicating the ODO @ 90,379 Kms (Actual was 1,90,000+ Kms)

[AZT]

Originally Posted by arun_josie

Here is the pic from OLX indicating the ODO @ 90,379 Kms (Actual was 1,90,000+ Kms)

Attachment 2027511

Thanks for sharing this. What's surprising is you sold it to Jeep showroom for exchange and still this happened, you'd expect the company to be careful of who they deal with.
One of my best friends is a dealer and has told me how some bad fish muddy the whole pond, they give the good ones a bad rep.

[Sail]

This is a really shady business, and very unfortunate, we have to live with it.

Few years back one of my cousin’s car in UP-16 was sold at 1.18 Lakh KMs odo reading. Later on, he finds the car was sold to 2nd buyer at 46K Odo reading by the car dealer.

Now forget about these unethical car dealers. A week back one of my close friends in Kolkata, went to TD a Maruti Espresso AMT for his wife. The car’s MID, Instrument / odometer cluster and all was blank. On questioning the sales advisor, simple vague reply came, that car is yet to do the PDI checks and final inspection by the dealer, thus all functions are not activated yet.

I really feel pity for the future buyer of that car, who will be buying a thousand KMs driven car as a new car from a authorize dealer.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by AZT

Thanks for sharing this. What's surprising is you sold it to Jeep showroom for exchange and still this happened, you'd expect the company to be careful of who they deal with.
.

Can't help it. Most car dealers don't have their own used car divisions like Maruti, Toyota, VW and Mahindra. Others deal with third party local used car dealers.

The jeep dealer's duty ends with transfer of ownership and cash from the used car dealer. What that used car dealer does with the car sold, is none of their concern.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by arun_josie

Here is the pic from OLX indicating the ODO @ 90,379 Kms (Actual was 1,90,000+ Kms)

Attachment 2027511

This is a completely different scale when it comes to fraud! Less than half the actual mileage and the car being sold to an unsuspecting buyer!

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Less than half the actual mileage and the car being sold to an unsuspecting buyer!

This sounds way lesser of a cheating than what it actually is. Try this "Shaving of one bloody 100,000 km off the original odo reading"!

[manchandap]

Odometer tampering is a reality even in the digital world. It might be difficult in some make or model but wherever feasible it is straightforward process.

I had a chance to witness such a incident few years back while getting the odometer of my two wheeler repaired.

A new Tata make car was brought to the mechanic for tampering the odometer. The polythene seat covers were not removed.

The process was simple for the experienced mechanic:

• Remove the instrument cluster
• Hook the motherboard to a laptop and search for some matching code
• Enter the required odometer reading
• Fix the instrument cluster back

Apart from the resale value angle, another reason for meter tampering is the warranty period services. Manufacturers' in-warranty service are offered for fixed time-fixed kilometers e.g. 1 year-10,000KMs.

My office cabbie told me since their running is very high and they touch the required (service) kilometers pretty quickly. (I have seen cabbies clocking around 1,000,00 KMs in 3 or so years ).

So, to avoid missing on service or getting the service done early at ASS, they tamper the odometer

[991.2GT3]

Originally Posted by GTO

I usually buy lightly-used cars that are anywhere between 1.5 - 3 years old. My last 3 used cars were all in the factory warranty. In India, the car only visits the authorised dealer workshop for the initial ~5 years of ownership, so I always get genuine service records from the official workshop.

Couldn't agree more! My 525d was serviced at Deutsche motoren Delhi for the first ~7 years of ownership and has since been maintained by an independent garage in Gurgaon. After the first 5/6 years i feel getting the vehicle serviced at the dealer doesn't make sense financially or emotionally (don't feel like paying bills sometimes equal to 15-20% of the cars IDV).

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by 991.2GT3

After the first 5/6 years i feel getting the vehicle serviced at the dealer doesn't make sense financially or emotionally

It is a sentiment and practice shared by many car owners all over the world I would say. And it does make sense, at least financially as you say.

In general there is no reason why a good, competent garage can’t maintain and service any car. What I do prefer are independent garages that specialise in a particular brand. Especially they higher end cars, do take a lot of experience. So you need to service a lot of these cars to build proficiency. Also, it will allow the garage to invest in car/model specific tooling.

Here in the Netherlands you can find very competent independent garages specialising in for instance Alfa Romeo, Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar. Some even specialise in a limited range of models.

I have written about my pal Raymond who runs an independent Jaguar X308 shop. He is better equipped and has more knowledge on the X308 than a real Jaguar. Simply because that is all he does, and dealers tend to focus more on the new range of cars, then worry about maintaining knowledge about older models.

Not sure about India, but access to parts, manuals, diagnostic equipment is not a problem at all here in the west. In fact somebody as Raymond actively looks around for better parts than coming from Jaguar direct, often at much better prices too.

Many people start drifting away from their main stream dealers when the warranty runs out of shortly thereafter.

Jeroen

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

This is a completely different scale when it comes to fraud! Less than half the actual mileage and the car being sold to an unsuspecting buyer!

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

This sounds way lesser of a cheating than what it actually is. Try this "Shaving of one bloody 100,000 km off the original odo reading"!

Yes, 1L difference is too much. And the worrisome part is, going by the ODO, the buyer might miss to change certain wear and tear parts. Ex: In my case, the timing chain was due for a change. But if the ODO was manipulated to 90K Kms, then timing chain replacement is 30K Kms away.

[vamsi.kona]

Originally Posted by katsumoto

So the question is how can you get the full service record reliably when you are looking for a pre owned car of any brands?

I guess it's always a risk. Preferably, as GTO said buy cars that are still within warranty or directly ask the owner to show the service records. A well maintained car owner would generally maintain the service records properly. Without that it's gamble and we have to rely on how we feel when we test drive the car in question.

On a side note, I see a "Last Samurai" fan going by your handle.