[GTO]

Having driven cars with these kind of aids, I can tell you they aren't for India at all. Imagine never knowing when your car will brake next . Unintended braking is as dangerous as brake failure!

I am a regular follower of Team-BHP. First of all, I would like to thank you for all the unbiased reviews and for providing a platform where true enthusiasts can post first-hand experiences of their vehicles.

My best chance of understanding the problem with my car is Team-BHP because the company is giving a vague reply. I drive a Volvo XC90 Inscription (2018 model). As you are aware, it has an auto-braking feature to avoid accidents. However, this braking feature has malfunctioned quite a lot of times. It has applied the brakes even when there was nothing in the front! It is risky for both - road users as well as me - because it increases the chances of a rear collision drastically.

I tried writing emails to Volvo, but that got me nowhere! I would like to understand through your forum if other Volvo users are also facing a similar problem, as the feature can’t be deactivated? I would also like to know through the forum if other cars with "radar-based functionality" have the same problem.

I would like to add that this XC90 is the favourite car I own and I absolutely love it. From the way it looks to the way it drives, and all the comforts and features! This car is short of nothing IMO. Just that I am doubting the radar-based functionality. I am not sure if it’s the car or our roads in general which are not meant for such features. Anyway, I hope to find a solution through the forum and maybe take away my worry.

Tanuj

[haisaikat]

This seems to be a known software problem for which there is a published recall campaign already, reference to news links below. Solution seems to be a software update.

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto...044018671.html

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/why-a-d...odel-to-avoid/

My friend who drives a BMW X3, purchased last year only and having a similar radar based safety braking system has said that he had to train himself for weeks and months trying to perfect getting his car in and out of the garage.

Although his garage is not the most roomiest yet its has sufficient space for not leaving much to complain about.

Per him, the major challenge was that if the car on certain occasions moved an inch to the left or right than the optimal position, the automatic brakes would get applied bringing the car to a halt. With time he has found the sweet spot and moved on.

For such a kind of technology there must be a means to adjust the range or sensitivity when the car is at parking speeds / maneuvers even if it cannot to turned off completely. And this does not need high end AI, may be a dumb RFID chip stuck on the wall or pillar or the door of the garage is more than enough to signal this.

I hope Mr. Dutta's problem is resolved soon.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by haisaikat

This seems to be a known software problem for which there is a published recall campaign already, reference to news links below. Solution seems to be a software update.

Thanks! Weird that neither Volvo nor its dealer mentioned this to Tanuj?

Also, the below part is quite disconcerting:

Car and Driver reported that Volvo stepped in to address the automated braking system issue but only for the 2019 and 2020 models. For these vehicles, the problem is thought to be with a software code failure. The issue is a bit different from the 2016 model, though. These newer XC90s with the automated braking system would fail to brake on its own when an obstacle is in their path. The recall Volvo sent out for this doesn’t include the 2016 model problems.

For such a kind of technology there must be a means to adjust the range or sensitivity when the car is at parking speeds / maneuvers even if it cannot to turned off completely.

But I would really want a master off button too. If I can switch ESP off, why can't I put this auto-braking off?

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by GTO

But I would really want a master off button too. If I can switch ESP off, why can't I put this auto-braking off?

They did! Volvo always had a master off switch where you could disable this feature.

However this is what happened when an employee switched it off but forgot to switch it back on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNi17YLnZpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_47utWAoupo

After these events, Volvo consciously removed the OFF switch for this feature.

[Jeroen]

I have two cars with this system. I am surprised Volvo writes about the need to have clean sensors. Whereas that is the case, the system should also be designed in such a way that if any of the sensor doesn’t work properly the driver is notified and the system is disabled and the driver is made aware.

It has happened to me a few times during very heavy rains and also icing up on the front bumper during winter conditions. In both cases I got a clear message (audio and visual).

Jeroen

[ajmat]

I tested the Volvo V90 in extreme rainy conditions on narrow state highway roads between Mangalore and Mercara. It worked perfectly well, warning you before you were too close. I preferred to take action before the car did though.

This must be something wrong with this particular example. The least Volvo could do is take it in and test it

[carthick1000]

This reminds me of a recall by Volvo, few months ago, for faulty working of its AEBS system. According to this recall, volvo mentioned a software update will be fixing this issue. Almost all the latest generation volvos (except V40 and V40 cross country) produced in 2019 and 2020 are covered by this recall. I think volvo should consider a physical 'Disable AEBS' button esp. in countries with less regulated traffic.

source (in Dutch)

[vishwasvr]

I had a similar experience on a 2012 S60 around January this year. The car would randomly slam the brakes without warning and without any obstacle on the road for at least 12-15 feet away. It was a bit of a harrowing time in city traffic. Luckily there were no vehicles tailing me. Else the consequences would have been disastrous.

[digitalSpeed]

I have a 2018 S90L. I have faced this issue, but in my case, it was in extreme rainy conditions. During my service, I had complained about it. The dealership had upgraded the software (which took over 3 hours on a 50 mbps connection). After that in the last 2 years I have not had any such issue.

On talking to the service adviser, he mentioned that because all the sensors are inside the car, just behind the windscreen, this is not a case of sensors getting dirty. He also mentioned that other luxury cars have these sensors in the front which cause similar issues in them.

[drmohitg]

It may be useful for the OP to install a dash camera and record such braking instances for them to evaluate. A dirty sensor can not be blamed for such behaviour. When a car would be driven on roads, sensors would get dirty. This cannot be an acceptable explanation for the said behaviour.

[srishiva]

I would rather have the system warning me instead of doing something on its own. When they become fully autonomous and driver is not at all required to be involved they can do this. But I would have choice of electing to use that.

Is it possible to design systems with zero bugs ? Add to that some external factors. I would believe in autonomous driving the day they would rid planes of pilots where there are fewer factors that could interfere with the operation. There would be lot of people on ground also tracking them and can intervene.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

In June 2009, driver of a 3 year old 330d in Germany, while trying to avoid a pothole, hits a kerb. The impact with the kerb triggered the side airbags and the driver got severe injuries. 23 days after the accident, the driver suffers a stroke. After recovery, he sues the manufacturer for faulty deployment of airbags.

To cut a long story short, this is a bug (could be software or hardware) and the manufacturer is liable for the same.

Spike

[Turbanator]

Many cars now have these Two features in India - Assistive braking & Lane assist.

Recently a close known picked up a G-Wagon and he switches off both the features whenever the vehicle is restarted. Lane Assist can be switched off via a dedicated button on the dash but for Assistive brakes, one needs to do via command controls.*Mostly, lane control is not intrusive and just shakes the steering but when you try to cross a bold line, it can apply brake and try to correct.

However, the Brake assist function can be very scary especially if any pedestrian or cyclist comes on the way, even from little far (in the Indian context). I have personally experienced this last week where a guy simply crossed the road and the Car braked as if it's going to hit a wall. Thankfully no one was behind else it could have been a million rupee fix.

I am sure, there will be options to pause this in Volvo as well, if not disable completely.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by GTO

Unintended braking is as dangerous as brake failure!

I primarily work on these systems for a different brand, but we do share some of the sensors with other manufacturers. Especially the forward radar. The possibility of unintended braking, like in a place where there was no object close to the car that could have caused a collision is something that gives our team sleepless nights from the development perspective. But this is not a country specific thing if I understand the narrative posted here. The car has braked due to no known reason. There have been such issues we have encountered like this and it is mostly attributed to bugs in the sensor software. These are across manufacturers and recalls have been made. In my personal experience, I have come across such issues when there was a puddle on the road and the car braked for no reason, and then another instance where the car was behaving in a wierd fashion inside tunnels. For these issues, the supplier of the radar has issued software updates. I strongly believe I am talking about the same radar system since I mentioned that we do share sensors.

At least in the implementations I work on, braking intervention can be turned off while the warnings still remain. Maybe in the volvo this must be possible too.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I have two cars with this system. I am surprised Volvo writes about the need to have clean sensors. Whereas that is the case, the system should also be designed in such a way that if any of the sensor doesn’t work properly the driver is notified and the system is disabled and the driver is made aware.

It has happened to me a few times during very heavy rains and also icing up on the front bumper during winter conditions. In both cases I got a clear message (audio and visual).

Jeroen

I believe the Indian dealer here is trying to brush it off giving a lame excuse. The sensor has pretty good diagnostics to detect something as small as a slight shift in the mounting of the radar and either recalibrate if possible or throw an error. It surely has a reporting mechanism of any Ice or Dust in front of the Radar and clearly display that as a warning symbol, and in this case, the counter measure is that the automatic braking intervention is disabled completely. Even for ice, some variants do come with integrated heater for the dome since in some countries ice is like a permanent thing and we cant render the system permanently unusable. Hence, it is not a valid excuse given by the Volvo dealer.

Forget radar, even ultrasonic parking sensors today have the capability to detect if they are dirty and are not able to meet their performance requirements.

[Sounak04]

One of my Colleague has a Volvo XC 90 brought in 2019. He also had the same issue of Car braking abruptly even though the road was completely empty.

Once we were travelling from Mumbai to Pune, the Car abruptly braked at 100 km/hr on the expressway. It was raining and there was no obstacles in front of us. Thankfully, the lady driving the Innova behind us was alert and she braked in time. Otherwise it would have led to a very serious crash.

After returning from Pune, my Colleague immediately went to Volvo service center and gave them a piece of mind. He had installed a webcam so there was no denying on their part. The Service manager communicated the problem to the HQ and after a week or so, they changed the sensors. Its been almost a year and half after the replacement of the sensors, thankfully there has been no such issues of abrupt braking.

I hope Mr. Dutta's issues get sorted. If required, he can contact me and i can get him the number of the Service Manager of Mumbai's Service Center. Hope it helps.