[V.Narayan]

Car designers while planning for ingress and egress seem to believe that the ingress and egress routines are meant to help the car using population develop suppleness and balancing skills to build healthier bodies. So to get into a sedan or hatchback with today's typically low design (SUVs and Cross Overs are thankfully taller) and front hinged doors you must first balance on one foot, lean the torso away from the car, grab something inside like a steering wheel or the front seat headrest and then do a half supine matsyendra asan (yogic spinal twist) and slide yourself in while ducking your head. Phoofh you are in. Photo below illustrates what I mean and this is a slim relatively young person mind you.



For older people, pregnant ladies, and over weight folks both the balancing and the bending are a challenge.

Designers seem to assume that all drivers and passengers are 30 something, slim, medium height and with supple bodies that can twist and turn to get into cars with ever lower heights and front hinged doors. Reality is that cars are used, both as drivers and passengers, by people of all ages, all kinds of body sizes, heights, girth and flexibility. Users include women who are expecting and old people who can't balance or bend too well, factors that are completely ignored by designers. Photo below illustrates how the elderly cope with front hinged car doors and low heights.



Earlier i.e. till the mid-1980s, in India at least, both the Ambassador and Padmini were what is today termed a tallboy design. Even before that till circa the 1940s several, though not all, cars had rear hinged doors or coach doors (as Rolls Royce & Lincoln termed it) or suicide doors in auto-slang. My grandfather's Opel which I last drove in 1998 had both - coach doors and a tall boy design. It was easy, super easy to get into even for my grandfather who was very old by then.

In the pursuit of aerodynamics, or alleged aerodynamics (the word alleged coming from someone from the aviation industry) designers have made cars lower and lower making ingress tougher and tougher for a wide swathe of the user population. Aerodynamics is, in my opinion (with a little bit of knowledge on the subject) irrelevant, from a practical point of view, for a vehicle whose life time average speed is likely to be 50 to 60 kmph. Energy loss due to tyre friction, transmission losses and many others count for a lot more in a slow moving vehicle like a car than aerodynamics. But aerodynamics makes a great selling point as does making the car dashboard look like a cockpit. In cars aerodynamics only starts making a small, very small, impact at say a running speed of 120 to 140 kmph. Notice how single propeller general aviation light planes almost never bother with sleek, streamlined designs? - that's because at their cruise speed of say 180 kmph it isn't an over riding concern. The only area at car speeds where aerodynamics matters is in tyre grip on the road.

Front hinged doors leave inadequate space for easy entry and exit.

These days only the very top end of cars like some Bentleys and Rolls Royces seem to feature coach doors hinged at the rear to make ingress and egress easy and comfortable sans yogic competencies.



I wonder why?

They say that coach doors or suicide doors are unsafe as a passenger could fall out if they open accidentally while the car is in motion. Maybe so. But with today's car locks, central locking, seat belts this might be less the case.

Would love to hear the views of members on making comfortable ingress and egress for all ages and sizes a factor in our car designs. Rear hinged doors and car designs are both simple solutions.

PS: For me personally it is not a case of grapes are sour, not as yet at least. I'm of medium build, medium height and have practised yoga for decades. But I observe this with my batchmates and folks in my social circle all the time - the wriggling and balancing and struggling to get in and get out.

[GTO]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[cs_rajesh]

With coach doors, I see a big difficulty, on what does one hold his / her hands while i attempt to get inside the rear through the coach door. I am accustomed to hold the door and seat myself and holding the door is a good support. With the door behind me I would find awkward to hold on to the b-pillar or ceiling of my car to get inside the rear door. Wouldn't that be quite difficult especially for elderly people?
My mother who is 73+ with hip surgery, she would not be able to get inside with coach doors, unless the seats face the rear of the car.

[Vinod_nair]

Thanks @V.Narayan ji for a thoughtful thread. The best Indian car for easy getting in and out is the humble Nano, my wife and her senior friends find it the most comfortable, especially if I've to ferry them for a marriage, their sarees crease don't get crushed

[lonetraveller89]

There is a case for flat bench-style seats as well. Most modern day seats are angled to have people sitting like this -



Perhaps it is a beneficial yoga position of it's own. "Adequate thigh support", anyone? It only makes matters worse when the cars are lower in height.

[Kosfactor]

Millicento had it , so I guess it's not complicated. The seat base should be at a height where one could sit and then turn over to the front and be comfortable. Door opening especially in the rear needs to be bigger towards the head and shoulder area.

[samaspire]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

... not as yet at least.

This. Everyone of us, assuming we live that long, is going to have issues with this. Car makers should realise that older people make up a significant part of the car buying population, usually at the higher end. They should start thinking on these lines and bring out models that are easy to get in and out of.

They need some radical thinkers - smart, practical thinkers.

[VKumar]

Instead of going to higher segments, I would prefer to keep myself confined to the more affordable class. And from all the experience I have had, both the cars with best ingress and egress, both front and back, belong to the same company in my list:

Ertiga / XL6: Perfect height of the seat and large doors, both front and rear. Make for an extremely easy and comfortable ingress and egress for anyone of height 5'5" and above. In an Ertiga, you simply walk into the car, it is neither a climb, nor you need to slip into it. The seatbase is virtually placed exactly near to the hip point in my case at least, or even in case of my friends. No wonder, there are multiple Ertigas in my circle. Whoever is looking for a comfortable 'small' car, they get an Throw away the third row, and you have a 5 seater with extreme level of flexibility (that middle row has both, slide and recline), and a big boot.

S Cross: Women love it, especially the ones who are 5'3" or shorter. What's Ertiga to someone with 5'8" or 5'10", S Cross is to someone who is 5'1" or 5'3". Very well shaped and sized doors, fantastic seat of seats, and everything set at near perfect height. My friend's 'amma' never travels in his Octavia, she goes to every place in her S Cross. In fact, she claims that Octavia had got her knee issues accentuated, while with S Cross, she doesn't even feel like she is getting in and out of the car's rear seat.

I have virtually driven every car in the market under 50 lac, when it comes to these two, I have never felt so comfortable in terms of ingress or egress in any other car. Trust me guys, the elderly people I know, they just love the seat height of these two cars.

PS: I have kept our Ecosport, Venue etc for the reason being smaller rear doors, and Creta is out, because it is still higher than these two.

[Eshan Joshi]

All of us know the Chrysler PT Cruiser (The ugly little car people love to hate).

That car was pretty popular with old people for its retro design and ergonomics . Literally every Pt cruiser owner I used to see as a boy was a pensioner. I have sat in one and I can tell you it is really easy to get in and out off. Much easier than my fathers Altima or my uncles Legend or any minivan. You just have to go in/out straight. No bending or twisting.

But I still love to hate it for some reason.

[BoneCollector]

My Dad has difficulty in getting out from both our cars, Wagon R as well as Brezza. He doesn't want to sit in low slung cars like City and has difficulty in climbing up in a Scorpio. The main reason why we have had tall boy designs in our garage.

I've been using this handy and economical gadget for him for last few years. I wonder why I never posted about it on the forum.

I bought it from Seniority. It's a good product to have. Images are sourced from their website. Since I'm out of town, couldn't post my own snaps. But I must admit, it's a good device to have. It should be available on other online platforms too.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Would love to hear the views of members on making comfortable ingress and egress for all ages and sizes a factor in our car designs.

My mom has issues with mobility and we have trouble getting her into a car. Based on this experience, a perfect car for elderly should have these important features:

- Higher seating position so that they can slide into it, rather than drop into the seats. But not too high, like in body-on-frame MPVs or SUVs
- Wide opening doors

Of course, these two are well known. But along with that, an elderly friendly car needs to have enough space between "A Pillar door frame & front seat" OR "B Pillar door frame & back seat". That way, elderly can slide their leg easily into the car's cabin after sitting, without their feet getting stuck.



This is primarily a "small car" or sub-4m SUV problem though - larger monocoque MPVs and monocoque SUVs are mostly elderly friendly.

[lemedico]

not just the old folk, but young 30 year olds like me as well have a lot of trouble getting in and out of one. I fractured my left ankle a few weeks ago, I cannot twist it and boy does it need to be twisted A LOT to step in and out of any car with these doors.

[TrackDay]

I have often heard super senior folks appreciating the Wagon R for it's ingress and egress. Another solution can be sliding doors. Although other than the Omni+Eeco and Carnival family, It is not that common in other cars in the mass segment.

Although I am young and don't have any back issues or anything, a few years ago I stumbled upon a similar video and this is how I enter and Exit a car. Might be useful and do share and try it out. Could be useful for someone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmkfrJnTA9o

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by BoneCollector

My Dad has difficulty in getting out from both our cars... I've been using this handy and economical gadget for him for last few years. I wonder why I never posted about it on the forum.

As a child, my dad actually cracked his skull on the pavement while getting thrown from inside a car with "suicide doors" (they didn't call them that for nothing). Kids grab the handle, wind catches the door still gripped by a lightweight body... fly away...

Yes, that was before the days of central locking or seatbelts or even child safety locks on rear doors...

But seatbelts are not passive, and kidproof (/idiot-proof) locks have their own safety downsides in some situations.

I guess a tool like this is good to have close at hand in a designated place, since it can cut seatbelts and break glass and deal with situations of being trapped...

...and maybe could help offset any safety downsides associated with alternative door designs...

-Eric

[sachin2612]

My 60 year old parents just love the ingress and egress of Toyota Innova(old gen). You seat at a comfortable height with just walk-in like ingress. No doubt innova is still a preferred car for elderly folks who are driven around.

Regarding the coach doors, the practicality of closing the rear hinged door is a hassle if doors opening are wide. Unless auto hinged doors are provided which hindered the production cost of vehicle.