[CaptainBrijesh]

Just one thing i want to ask,

Has any work been done on AC system in which AC Refrigerent Gas needs to be refilled or Topped Up ?

If they have recharged the system using Pressure Gauge connected on Low as well as High pressure side then the problem may be with the quantity of Gas filled in the system. Underfilled or Overfilled systems create problems in cooling for sure.

What i personally felt after using 3 Cars of different brand and getting AC repaired of each of them at least 2 times is that Automotive AC System are way too sensitive to Quantity of Refrigerent filled. One reason for that is that AC system pressure varies with the variation in ambient temperature and humidity plus many other factors like engine RPM and vehicle speed etc etc so you just cant find optimum pressure of Refrigerent at any point of time using pressure gauges because there are too many variables.

All things aside, correct way to recharge the system is Vacuum out the whole system with the Vacuum pump and recharge the Gas quantity by Weight. Because temp has no effect on the mass/weight of Refrigerent Gas. You can find correct quantity of Gas in Garage manual of particular car model.

My two cents here, try it once if you cant identify any other problem with AC system of your car.

Cheers!

[pixantz]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

My Indica has an RPM sensitive AC cutoff - It works only within a certain range of RPM's - too low and too high and the AC will cutoff.

I'm not sure if you're joking but it seems you're serious. Rest assured there is no such arrangement or "RPM sensitive" feature in any Indica.
Actually if you have an older version Indica then those old Diesel High Pressure pumps or "Bosch Pumps" had couple of settings on it to be done manually whenever the pump is overhauled, repaired and/or serviced to get the setting right for the Ac to work perfectly even at idle rpm's. Now most Bosch pump guys either don't bother to set it right or don't actually know how and proceed by saying the Ac guy will fix it as it is Ac problem. It is most certainly not. Please get it rechecked.
Yes, your Ac might get cut for a second or two if RPM is raised suddenly and that again is a safety feature. But its not the way you're saying it is. Just my two cents.

Originally Posted by AntPaul

AC vent temperature of 12.4 Celsius is quite high AFAIK. Last week when I went to get my 15 year car for its regular ac gas top up, the vent temperature dipped to 3.5 Celsius in 5 minutes.

The trick AC service center does to reduce vent temperature is to pour out water on the condenser to cool it faster.

Your observation on that Verna's grill temp is right partly. I say partly because ideally it should be lower but the gril temp depends on the fan speed. We don't know what that was in the Verna. I think it was in the higher region hence 12.5 deg.
Your grill temp of 3.5 is good but try increasing the fan speed and check, your temp also will go beyond 10. Just a point I thought bringing forward. People can trick you there too. Just the way they do with wetting the Condensor like you said.

Have a chilled ride

Originally Posted by samitjain

Guys, I have a 4th gen honda city and the ac cooling is not up to mark.
I know I am comparing cooling of city with other cars I own it’s worst of the lot. It just manageable with ac. It never chills.

My suggestion - Don’t go for Honda City

Like, you're not making any sense. There's something amiss. Can you enlighten us on some details like what "other" cars that you have are you comparing your City to? Are they manual or Automatic Climate control? Can we have a screenshot of your City's Ac touch control module to see what settings you use while you have your bad experience?

I have to say that all cars have seemingly identical Ac controls but the configuration on each have mildy different approach which in turn needs it to be used a bit differently to get the pest performance out of it. For example, just like the engines in the cars are all engines, but you drive a diesel one differently as compared to petrol. Same difference with the Ac. A small change can have a huge difference.
Further, I suggest you spend some time fiddling with the pages in your car manual which shows you how to operate the particular Ac. You might be more than surprised. Wouldn't hurt.

As for the ASS, I guess they don't have someone competent enough to guide you properly and so are giving lame excuses. All credible manufacturers have distinct parameters for performance regarding all workings of the car and just don't do time-pass is what I believe. Dealers on the other hand, couldn't care less. It's all in the small details that makes or breaks it for you, is what's possible. Hope you find where the gremlin lies.

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by pixantz

I'm not sure if you're joking but it seems you're serious. Rest assured there is no such arrangement or "RPM sensitive" feature in any Indica.
)

Thank you. Looks like my mechanic pulled a fast one on me. I will get a second opinion once the lockdown ends

[AntPaul]

Originally Posted by pixantz

Your grill temp of 3.5 is good but try increasing the fan speed and check, your temp also will go beyond 10. Just a point I thought bringing forward.

The 3.5 degree was with lowest blower speed with a wet condenser. In real world scenario, the AC performance is just about adequate for Bangalore summer. We are talking about an '06 Esteem here. 3.5 degree is like ARAI FE figures, or VW diesel's claimed emission figures

[Indian2003]

Originally Posted by AntPaul

The 3.5 degree was with lowest blower speed with a wet condenser. In real world scenario, the AC performance is just about adequate for Bangalore summer. We are talking about an '06 Esteem here. 3.5 degree is like ARAI FE figures, or VW diesel's claimed emission figures

If I remember correctly, just after replacing the AC pump and recgharging the system in my previous car, we measured -7 degrees out of the dash. It was a similar model but 1997, with a VR6 petrol engine.

Later on today I will measure what it shows in my car now.

[samitjain]

Dear Pixantz,

I own Toyota Glanza, Innova Corolla, Q3, 525 D and have owned various cars over the years including 3rd Gen Honda City. Had shown the car 2 different ASS - Courtsey Honda as well as AXON Honda, I know all the settings, but its just that the Air-Conditioning isn't that effective. I sat in other 4th Gen Honda City at the service station having similar mileage and AC cooling ws similar.

Thats why I am saying that AC is not that effective in 4th Gen Honda City. It has just done 20000Km

More Info - Corolla Grill Temperature touches about 3.5 Degrees, Honda City the lowest it goes as 6.5 degrees. Sat in the car with the technician for 15-20 minutes to check it myself. Corolla with just 2 AC vents chills in few minutes. Even Glanza/Baleno Ac chills in few minutes. q3 and 525 D are adequate and Innova is also nice, but its only the Honda City 4th Gen AC which struggles. I wouldn't say it doesnt cool, but if it takes 25-30 minutes to reach just adequate temperature, you would have already reached your destination by then.

[pixantz]

Originally Posted by samitjain

Dear Pixantz,
its just that the Air-Conditioning isn't that effective. I sat in other 4th Gen Honda City at the service station having similar mileage and AC cooling ws similar.

Thats why I am saying that AC is not that effective in 4th Gen Honda City. It has just done 20000Km

As a customer you always can have the right to be dissatisfied but I can't understand how it's possible with a Honda, that too City. And in India!
If we step back and just look up some statistics, no matter what source you check, the 4th Gen City had a global sales of a million units and quarter of those sales figures came from India. I simply don't see how any car can achieve those figures with a mediocre Ac.
Indian customers, like you also, can't be fooled easily and have to have everything proper. Now this is just one statistic/logic among others. City has always been a hit across all its iterations in India with significant sales figures. The dealers have certainly not. I still think that's where the issue is.
I think you have made a good choice by owning the 4th Gen City though it has its share of niggles. Further, as a bhpian, I think you should ideally believe in your choice and try to get to the bottom of this. That's what we all do as petrol-heads at TeamBhp.

Just my two cents.
Rest is upto your choice and liberty.

Originally Posted by samitjain

More Info - Corolla Grill Temperature touches about 3.5 Degrees, Honda City the lowest it goes as 6.5 degrees. Sat in the car with the technician for 15-20 minutes to check it myself. Corolla with just 2 AC vents chills in few minutes. Even Glanza/Baleno Ac chills in few minutes. q3 and 525 D are adequate and Innova is also nice, but its only the Honda City 4th Gen AC which struggles. I wouldn't say it doesnt cool, but if it takes 25-30 minutes to reach just adequate temperature, you would have already reached your destination by then.

I think you should try to find a third opinion on this problem outside your regular ASS people. Just if you're intrigued enough. It would be interesting to know what you find out. Is the Ac really inherently bad? Or does it have a hidden gremlin or was not serviced/maintained right by the people you take it to? But I think it you would have to be convinced that there is indeed a problem in order to search for a solution in the first place. I personally think it's a problem. But tour opinion is that that's the way it is and it's not abnormal. Hmm. Hope you get to the bottom of this. Now I'm also intrigued as to these goings on with your City.

Just on afterthought, sometimes you have to look in unlikely places when the problem is elusive. Maybe a good FNG would bring up a new solution. Some out of the box trouble-mongers I can think of are:
*is your fresh air door working properly and been checked? Sometimes the mechanism may have a problem and not show on the dash hence letting in hot air. Ditto with temperature door motor.

*is your Condensor condition ok and upto the mark without bad rows of fins?

*is your Ac refrigerant filled/check to the right quantity ideally by recovery machine?

*do the radiator fans both work at full speed when Ac is on?

*are your door beadings and other rubber cabin parts properly insulating the cabin? Has the car been in an accident?

*are all the glasses,
particularly front winscreen stock and not replaced for some reason with aftermarket?

* has the Compressor pressures on High and Low side been properly checked? Compressor malfunctions are very much possible. Doesn't matter if the car is run 20k or 200k Kms.

*does the system show any Ac related trouble code or engine cooling related trouble code in a scan with live data reading?

*the above problem may occur due to false readings shown by any ac and or coolant related sensor and goes undetected in some instances hence hampering cooling performance.

*is the Coolant upto the proper mark?

*is the cabin filter in good condition?

Any one or more of these possible issues could play spoilt sport. I'm not sure regular ASS guys even go through the trouble of checking these kinds of trouble spots.

Hope this helps.

[samitjain]

Have checked all the details, as you said, Was there in the workshop myself their with the technicians for an hour and they themselves admit that the issue is with the change in specifications of the car from 3rd Gen to 4th Gen.

Compressor size is smaller, Gas pressure is lower also. AC has been tuned to make the car more fuel efficient and all is control by the ECU.

When the Grill temp. doesnt go below 6.5 degrees which is the cut off, the car cant cool fast.

Same thing was with my GETZ and their also they checked with fellow getz and Grill Temp. was cutting at 7.0 Degrees and the car ac was bad during the time I had the car.

They checked gas pressure, remove gas, vacuum as well as fill gas again.

First time car was with courtsey honda for about a week and then with AXON Honda for 2 days and they couldn't find any fault.

I want to reiterate that AC Works, but its not good for Delhi Heat. They compared same generation cars and the Grill temperature was same or even worse. Suggested them to do something with thermostat, like putting tape on Thermostat so it might give signal to ECU that 6.5 degrees not achieved, but they say it is deeply located inside dashboard and I don't want to open it up.

They themselves admit 3rd Gen Honda City was excellent and I can confirm the same from my own experience.

Left with very little options as the car is under warranty and have to go as per the ASS assessment which is that AC is fine.

One option is to put Sun Film on the Windshield and Sun Shades. I think the culprit is setting of the Grill Temperature cut-off, which cant be changed as it controled by ECU

You feel cheated that Cars cheaper than this like Glanza have better AC. Corolla AC is in a league of its own without Rear AC Vents.

I have not heard anyone saying that 4th Gen Honda City is chilling.

Hope Some team- bhp members can say that A/c is good in their 4th gen and send me a photo of their Grill Temperature.

Searched a lot of forums on team-bhp, and there were some post where I read that A/c is just about manageable in Honda City, nothing great. ASS also confirms this.

But i could not say the same for my other cars like Glanza, corolla and Innova are excellent. Q3 and 525D are nice but not as good as Glanza. have owned Verna Fluidic, its ac was also quite good, liva was also nice. Even Celerio I owned was good in a moving car or at higher Rpm.

ALongwith Getz, this 4th Gen Honda City worst of the lot

in addition to comparing, my corolla is more than 6 years old, AC never been serviced and done around 50,000 km. have no rear A.c Vents.

Honda City 3 years old, done about 20,000 Km, both are petrol and CVT, I know cant compare 2 different category car, but then Glanza which is below also has excellent Air Conditioning.

I hope some member can post about their experience with HONDA CITY AC 4th Gen to be chilling.

Not to mention, I have written several mails to Honda India, and I get a call from ASS to bring their Car, check it and reuturn it saying everything is OK.

AC Filter, Condenser all cleaned. its just the Setting of Grill Temp. to prioritise Fuel efficiency which I believe is the culprit. I also said, I am willing to reduce my fuel efficiency if somehow they can adjust the Grill Temperature in ECU, but ASS say they are helpless.

Will take car once again to workshop, for Music system change which is pending for more than 5 months now, after the lockdown opens, but i know, its all in vain

[pixantz]

Originally Posted by samitjain

When the Grill temp. doesnt go below 6.5 degrees which is the cut off, the car cant cool fast.


I want to reiterate that AC Works, but its not good for Delhi Heat. They compared same generation cars and the Grill temperature was same or even worse. Suggested them to do something with thermostat, like putting tape on Thermostat so it might give signal to ECU that 6.5 degrees not achieved, but they say it is deeply located inside dashboard and I don't want to open it up.

Ok. Just hope you're not using that ECO MODE button though. Because in ECO mode the Ac cuts of faster.
I guess the only respite in your case would be getting some good quality window shades. Those net type ones. Could help a lot.

[Indian2003]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

Thank you. Looks like my mechanic pulled a fast one on me. I will get a second opinion once the lockdown ends

There is a centrifugal clutch in the AC compressor pulley. Could this be slipping? In my previous car I never knew when the AC would work. It was the centrifugal clutch that was faulty.

[Shubh_deep]

AC Problems with Renault Duster 1st GEN RxL Petrol

Hello Team BHP Members,

I have a Renault Duster 1st GEN 1.5 RXL Petrol Variant which has completed 100K+ on road since Nov-2015. This is my first car and dear to me. There have been memories which I have had with this car.
In recent times at 90K Service, Renault Service Center in Surat, Gujarat advised me to go for the facelift to 3rd GEN. Bad Idea, when I look at it now!
Since the facelift, AC has been a constant problem as the cutoff of AC does not happen properly in most occasions. I have taken the car to Renault Service Center in Vapi, Gujarat as I lost trust with the Renault Service Center at Surat.
I have replaced AC Unit (INR 24K), got condenser replaced for free as the problem was still persistent (had to go through lots of mail with Dealer VP and Renault Area Sales Manager, West Zone) and few weeks back got the Ducts in radiator, AC and condenser cleaned by Service Center technicians.
Still, the AC problem persists.

Issues
1. AC does not cut off properly at notch 4 after all the technical troubleshooting stated above - The temperature of cool air from duct stays at 22C (if outside temperature is at >39C)
2. AC does not cut off below 18C at notch 3 and 15C at notch 2.
3. AC does not cut off below 11C at notch 1

I am not sure if this something by design as I did speak with Renault Technician who said the AC should cut off at 8C.

I do not know how to proceed further as the Renault Service Center technicians do not have any clue and making things more worse with the car. To summarize, I feel that the car is getting sick every day and I am unable to find right doctors.

I will some advise from the members here who might have faced issues similar or do know about it. Any suggestion will give me support to find the root cause of this issue.

Thanks and regards,
Shubh

[pixantz]

Originally Posted by Shubh_deep

AC Problems with Renault Duster 1st GEN RxL Petrol

Issues
1. AC does not cut off properly at notch 4 after all the technical troubleshooting stated above - The temperature of cool air from duct stays at 22C (if outside temperature is at >39C)
2. AC does not cut off below 18C at notch 3 and 15C at notch 2.
3. AC does not cut off below 11C at notch 1

The main issue pointers that I have highlighted in Bold in your query seem to suggest that the issues are existing mainly because your Ac system is unable to get the grill temperature down to the desired levels (ie:4-7 °C) in order for the Ac system to cut-off. That's the normal range that it should cut of at which can be checked faster by keeping the blower at lowest speed and Ac setting at Lowest.
The reasons could be numerous because the Techies seem to have disturbed something on the Ac during their "facelift" fiasco.

[Shubh_deep]

Shouldn't this be fixed, if the entire AC Unit, Compressor and Condenser are replaced.

[zeng]

What's the registered pressures at Low side and High side?

[Shubh_deep]

Hi Everyone, eventually we ended up having a failure in the middle of the road. There was a loud noise and thought tyre might have burst. But, it ended up with Condenser Oil bursting out by detaching the filter pipe it connects. We got it replaced from the showroom under warranty. So hopefully, it might solve the issue. We are checking! Any additional thoughts.