[Sanidhya mukund]

As we have been hearing, the non-sunroof Tata Harrier was susceptible to water leakage issues. I recently came across this video on YouTube that shows a severe case of water leakage in a 2 month old Harrier with Panoramic Sunroof:

https://youtu.be/02pb6uNL8JM

It seems to be a case of failed seals/blocked drains, but whatever it is, it must be disheartening to say the least for the owner who must have spent 20+ lakhs on this product.
Hope Tata is able to resolve this ASAP.

[VKumar]

Once I was talking to a senior guy from a supplier of Toyota, and all he said was:

"Material is same for all, machines are also same, and technology is also same, production methods and QC methods followed are also same. What differentiates us from them is our people. Every employee working on our production lines is a quality inspector in himself/herself"

These are QC issues which do not occur at a later stage, they are properly built into the car. A leaking sunroof is not just the example of a failure of quality department; which couldn't timely zero down on the issue - it is simply the example of an employee on the line who didn't get his part done right.

What's worse about such experiences? No level of repairs will kill the fear of the failure from the mind of the customer - a customer lifetime value of over a crore, just lost at 20 lakh; solely because some guy working at some station in some factory did not perform his duty correctly at some moment of some day!

See, people frequently call the Crysta overpriced, but when they face these issues in their own cars; the first statement they utter is "better I would have bought a Crysta".

I won't blame the Harrier here, but I would blame the Tata QC a big time. Take a lac more, but at least give the product which doesn't fail. Everyone knows that the price of reliability is higher than that of the features.

"Resolving the issues is always 'just' the damage control, it is delivering the right product, that performs as per the 'realistic' expectations - that earns you the loyalty!"

BTW he was calling it 'paranomic' sunroof

Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund

How on earth would a car like this pass a shower test?

What if the car never underwent the shower test?

They must be doing random testing of the lot, and the bad apple happily passed! Just like the class 10th of CBSE in 2021

[Sanidhya mukund]

Originally Posted by VKumar

Once I was talking to a senior guy from a supplier of Toyota, and all he said was:

"Material is same for all, machines are also same, and technology is also same, production methods and QC methods followed are also same. What differentiates us from them is our people. Every employee working on our production lines is a quality inspector in himself/herself"

Totally agree. The only reason a brand new car would suffer such a failure is because someone at the QC divison failed to notice the fact that someone on the production line failed to do his job. How on earth would a car like this pass a shower test? I would assume that the drainage mechanism was either blocked, or it was not fitted properly and hence failed the moment it had to bear any load. Almost like a poorly built dam that collapses the moment it is put into use.

Originally Posted by VKumar

BTW he was calling it 'paranomic' sunroof

He wasn't wrong, you see. It must have indeed been a paranormal experience to have it raining inside your 20 lakh rupee automobile.

[Technic90]

Originally Posted by VKumar

I won't blame the Harrier here, but I would blame the Tata QC a big time. Take a lac more, but at least give the product which doesn't fail. Everyone knows that the price of reliability is higher than that of the features.

On a lighter note, you seem to be 'anti-national' for speaking against an Indian company. On a serious note, I expect TATA fan boys to post the Innova roof leak story to counter that Toyota is no better. Every 100 complaints of TATA are countered with 1 complaint of Maruti or Toyota to prove they all are equally reliable as if that's gonna solve all the problems. If only they start jumping on TATA niggles like they do for other brands, TATA might start taking their QC seriously. What people conveniently ignore is frequency of Toyota issues are very less plus most of the reported ones are not serious (except tyre burst story). What differentiates them is the fact that Toyota at least resolves the issues at some point unlike TATA and Mahindra who are unable to fix any issues for years no matter how minor or major it is. I wonder how many decades will it take them to fix engine malfunction error lights throwing up randomly. Also Toyota owners get more serious with niggles as they paid a premium for the reliability, something I don't see much with other brand owners. I am surprised when people justify reliability issues because 'its worth it as the car feels so good otherwise'. I mean whats the point of buying a car which needs service centre support every few months.

Originally Posted by VKumar

What if the car never underwent the shower test?

They must have done the test but the problem seem to have started after using the sunroof for 2 months. Hopefully it's a one off case and not a design flaw which makes the sunroof undurable after a while. Usually many sunroofs after some usage do show up some sort of niggles which requires regular maintenance but 2 month is too less to have such major issues. Well, I have seen Harrier clutch failing within 200 kms so this is not a surprise.

Originally Posted by VKumar

See, people frequently call the Crysta overpriced, but when they face these issues in their own cars; the first statement they utter is "better I would have bought a Crysta".

According to some people Crysta is overpriced because it doesn't provide sunroof while Harrier XZ (the top end back then) at launch in January 2019 costed Rs 16.25 lakhs (ex-showroom) and today the same variant costs Rs 18.17 lakhs. So increase of 2 lakhs in just 2 years but no one seem to be complaining about it. Also the current top end Harrier costs above Rs 20 lakhs but only Crysta is overpriced because it does not provide features which you will not use after few months and it's not worth paying premium for a bigger engine, RWD, resale and most important of all - peace of mind.

[GTO]

Thanks to Bichu for sending this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this page!

Mr. Vivek Srivatsa responds to me on the case.

"Vehicle was inspected on 6th at the dealership and was washed with high pressure water jet for half an hour to confirm water ingress. Also the drain pipe, sunroof glass & water beading were inspected. No abnormality / water ingress was observed. This was done in presence of the driver & customer's relative. Further investigation planned after lockdown is lifted and dealership opens."

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks to Bichu for sending this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this page!

I don’t follow this. It’s clearly leaking in the first video. Did Tata fix the car and then the subsequent testing revealed that it was no longer leaking? Or did it simply not leak again when taken to the workshop?

[Dr Carlton Pere]

That video I've seen several times and it really scared me. My Harrier is all of two months, and today in Mumbai while cyclone tautkei is at its zenith, I was so darn happy to see no leakage!

Thank you Tata Motors.

[DeadCenter]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks to Bichu for sending this information in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this page!

Setting aside the sunroof for a moment, how bad does QC need to be for the quarter panel glass to leak as shown in the video? 'Leak' is an understatement, it looks more like a 'pour'. Did Mr. Srivatsa mention something about that?

If not, why would he address only part of the problem?

[AZT]

This reminds me of the cartoon bai which used to come on Channel V between shows saying "Itne paise mein itna ijj milenga".

I love the Harrier and the reason it sells is because of the price. If we start expecting Toyota QC, it won't be the same price ergo wont look as VFM. Not justifying this at all though, this is pathetic and Tata should stop with those safety buzz words and focus on a better ownership experience.

Been a 3 year Tata user now and have seen my share of niggles, though nothing as extreme as this.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by DeadCenter

How bad does QC need to be for the quarter panel glass to leak as shown in the video? 'Leak' is an understatement, it looks more like a 'pour'.

IMO - the quarter panel isn't leaking. The sun-roof housing is leaking water into the gaps around it - and the water is finding way into the cabin from whatever available routes. Including from behind the quarter panel in the C pillar ducting. I may be wrong, but that's how it looks to me.

[landcruiser123]

As a evolutionary species, we’ve been sealing glass using rubber/polymer for decades. It is not rocket science. The magnitude of the leak is scary.

Such abnormalities should be caught at assembly line / production inspections. Even dealers can see this while preparing the car for delivery.

[RK79]

That is one hell of a nightmare for the owner as well as Tata, and Tata will have a hard time explaining what happened or how it happened. The whole sunroof assembly is leaking water. Also hope the vehicle did not have any structural damage which is causing the leak. The long term reliability of the sun roof is now a big question.Hope they provide umbrella holder for Harrier,just in case

[VKumar]

A Question for Sunroof Experts - The Curious Case of Kia Sonet Sunroof Leakage

Here is another video from the same channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWImsrMj99I

Exactly at 00:40, the guy mentioned that the owner has approached Kia regarding the complaint of this leakage, and the Kia service team has told him that "it is same in every car".

A few questions for the experts from my end:

• So, we can assume that the sunroofs are not absolutely leak proof, and hence have dedicated channels for water out flow?
• In case they are dedicated channels, why they shall not be concealed? On a bad road, it will directly result in water spilling or even the drop getting misdirected towards the roof fabric, or even the passengers - isn't it?

What my knowledge says is, that the rubber sealing shall never let the water seep through, when the sunroof is closed. Even if it leaks, then there is no doubt that channels are there to direct the water out, but not having a concealed set is what got me surprised. Kia people telling customer that "it is normal" is what has made me raise the question. Is it actually normal, or it's just another cost cutting by Kia?

I don't trust Hyundai and Kia actually, and even if they have cut 'yet another cost' at a place where hardly anyone notices - I won't be surprised too! After all, when you buy it loaded and cheap, you have to compromise somewhere inside!

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by VKumar

A Question for Sunroof Experts - The Curious Case of Kia Sonet Sunroof Leakage

On the Sonet one it somehow feels that the sunroof has not closed properly. Or the panel gaps are such evident where you can see the body paint on it? Raises a few doubts atleast on this particular video.

But leakage in any case is not acceptable in this day and age of manufacturing cars.

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by VKumar

[center][b]A .. owner has approached Kia regarding the complaint of this leakage, and the Kia service team has told him that "it is same in every car".

All the cars in these videos are brand new cars. With leaks(failures) occuring so early in the vehicles lifecycle, one can only imagine the magnitude of this problem in the coming years as these cars with sunroof age.

The bigger problem due to the leakage is going to be the resulting health hazard due to the water seeping through roof and pillar upholstery and resulting in stench/fungus issues.

I have reason to believe that the sunroof 'craze' among the Indian car buyers will fizzle out soon.

A moonroof is probably a better compromise as it doesn't open and hence less prone to mechanical issues and leaks.