Does an LPG kit tamper ECU timing?

furioussphinx · 13th May 2007, 10:32

Am very sorry for starting a new thread on this topic, was not able to find a relative thread in the search. I was thinking about fitting a LPG kit into a Palio 1.2ELX. But a few mechanics and a friend advised me not to go in for the kit as it will batter my engine in the long run. I intend to use my car only for a period of 3 years. This is what I happen to know, Once a LPG kit is fitted, the ECU timing is changed to suit LPG combustion from the stock petrol timing. So occasionally, when we swap to petrol, it hits the engine and wears it out. Correct me if I am wrong. It seems there is a 'Sequential Gas Kit' which has a separate ECU which is not related to the petrol one. So in this, it does not affect the engine at all and even the performance part as we can tweak the LPG ECU according to our requirement. Could someone please throw some light on this topic?

swathyd · 13th May 2007, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by furioussphinx

Am very sorry for starting a new thread on this topic, was not able to find a relative thread in the search. I was thinking about fitting a LPG kit into a Palio 1.2ELX. But a few mechanics and a friend advised me not to go in for the kit as it will batter my engine in the long run. I intend to use my car only for a period of 3 years. This is what I happen to know, Once a LPG kit is fitted, the ECU timing is changed to suit LPG combustion from the stock petrol timing. So occasionally, when we swap to petrol, it hits the engine and wears it out. Correct me if I am wrong. It seems there is a 'Sequential Gas Kit' which has a separate ECU which is not related to the petrol one. So in this, it does not affect the engine at all and even the performance part as we can tweak the LPG ECU according to our requirement. Could someone please throw some light on this topic?

The information you get is correct to some extent. from who used LPG kit with 'ECU' it offers good performance and mileage. Almost all leading LPG kit manufacturers are having this technology. But i dont know about the 'wearing of engine when switched to LPG'. It costs rs 30,000 and upwards.

Should discuss it deeply as the 'ECU' itself is a headache for the people. So having another ECU( for LPG) and cost to replace it( more than rs 10,000) if found damaged is a potential threat.

wolfinstein · 13th May 2007, 12:44

I don't think the Timings need to be altered, Not sure though at least on CNG engines you don't need an ECU Remap.

But you do need a Advance Timer and Lamda control unit with Stepper Motor-to regulate the flow of gas and calculate the Mixture to make it lean not rich.

This is needed in both LPG and CNG fittments.

.anshuman · 13th May 2007, 14:03

There is no such thing.Palio's without lambda who are not well tuned show ECU light because of unburnt gas exiting and oxygen sensor giving error apart from this ive never seen any issue as my close friend has LPG installed in his 2001 palio 1.2.

mithun · 15th May 2007, 05:51

Don't worry....Dude.

Just fit a Zavoli MPFI LPG kit & forget everything and you don't need to meddle with the ECU since it comes with all kind of goodies !!!

swathyd · 15th May 2007, 11:28

Zavoli comes with an ECU am i right ? How is its performane vs petrol. Please tell the price.

mithun · 17th May 2007, 06:24

Zavoli comes with all sort of sensors. There is about 10% performance drop when compared to petrol.

The cost will be about Rs.22-24000 for Palio without RTO endorsement.

mail4ajo · 17th May 2007, 10:24

As far as I know, no standard kit in India comes with stand alone ECU unless you ask for it. The imported kits are meant to be fitted with the ECU and sensors, but omitted by most installers to keep cost down and users are not aware of the benefits. I was not told about it when I installed mine.

The LPG kit that is usually fixed is totally free from the existing MPFI unit. It will not and cannot tamper with ECU timing. Do not try timing change or remap when fixing LPG kits since it will create havoc when running on petrol.

Best option to go for a separate ECU and sensors which doesnt require manual tuning. Will work almost like MPFI. I propose to do it in a few weeks.

swathyd · 17th May 2007, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

As far as I know, no standard kit in India comes with stand alone ECU unless you ask for it. The imported kits are meant to be fitted with the ECU and sensors, but omitted by most installers to keep cost down and users are not aware of the benefits. I was not told about it when I installed mine.

The LPG kit that is usually fixed is totally free from the existing MPFI unit. It will not and cannot tamper with ECU timing. Do not try timing change or remap when fixing LPG kits since it will create havoc when running on petrol.

Best option to go for a separate ECU and sensors which doesnt require manual tuning. Will work almost like MPFI. I propose to do it in a few weeks.

Does such units( LPG -ECU) offer performance and mileage equivalent to petrol ?

mail4ajo · 17th May 2007, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by swathyd

Does such units( LPG -ECU) offer performance and mileage equivalent to petrol ?

It depends on the type of closed loop system you are installing. There is a basic system, which I am installing on Saturday. Its has 2 sensors, TPS sensor and lambda sensor. It detects the feedback from these sensors and regulates the gas flow through a stepper motor. Cost about 6000Rs

There is also sequential closed loop and multi point gas injection which is costlier and have more sensors and separate ECU. You will get similar performance like running on petrol.

swathyd · 17th May 2007, 21:50

Tell us more after installation.

kshastry · 28th May 2007, 22:28

Hi mail4ajo, I am interested to know your experiences.

As far as I have seen, no LPG kit dealers of B'lore whom I have met so far had no knowledge on separate ECU/ECM units. Worse, some of them doesn't even know what ECU stands for and where it can be found in a car. They claim to have installed kits on 1000's of cars running successfully on LPG.

They insisted that they won't tamper with any ECU, injectors or wiring of existing MPFI engines. My car is a Matiz. They claimed I don't even be needing the lambda sensors.

None of the so called Italian kits I came across were all original Italian made. The dealers themselves revealed it. Only vapourizer is Italian. Rest are all Indian made.

If anyone has the knowledge of any dealer in Bangalore who could install a original Italian kit with ECM, lambda sensor et al, please let me know.

mail4ajo · 29th May 2007, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by kshastry

Hi mail4ajo, I am interested to know your experiences.

Read about it here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...tml#post451342

In most kits, the vaporiser, multivalve, solenoid value etc are imported. Other components are Indian. Primarily done to keep cost down. A regular MPFI kit in the US cost 1200USD. Will anyone take that cost here?

13th May 2007, 10:32	#1
furioussphinx BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 536 Thanked: 2 Times View My Garage	Does an LPG kit tamper ECU timing? Am very sorry for starting a new thread on this topic, was not able to find a relative thread in the search. I was thinking about fitting a LPG kit into a Palio 1.2ELX. But a few mechanics and a friend advised me not to go in for the kit as it will batter my engine in the long run. I intend to use my car only for a period of 3 years. This is what I happen to know, Once a LPG kit is fitted, the ECU timing is changed to suit LPG combustion from the stock petrol timing. So occasionally, when we swap to petrol, it hits the engine and wears it out. Correct me if I am wrong. It seems there is a 'Sequential Gas Kit' which has a separate ECU which is not related to the petrol one. So in this, it does not affect the engine at all and even the performance part as we can tweak the LPG ECU according to our requirement. Could someone please throw some light on this topic? Last edited by furioussphinx : 13th May 2007 at 10:33.
	() Thanks

13th May 2007, 12:44	#3
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	I don't think the Timings need to be altered, Not sure though at least on CNG engines you don't need an ECU Remap. But you do need a Advance Timer and Lamda control unit with Stepper Motor-to regulate the flow of gas and calculate the Mixture to make it lean not rich. This is needed in both LPG and CNG fittments. Last edited by wolfinstein : 13th May 2007 at 12:46.
	() Thanks

13th May 2007, 14:03	#4
.anshuman Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Good-Gaon Posts: 7,763 Thanked: 11,064 Times View My Garage	There is no such thing.Palio's without lambda who are not well tuned show ECU light because of unburnt gas exiting and oxygen sensor giving error apart from this ive never seen any issue as my close friend has LPG installed in his 2001 palio 1.2.
	() Thanks

15th May 2007, 05:51	#5
mithun BANNED Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cochin Posts: 2,195 Thanked: 268 Times	Don't worry....Dude. Just fit a Zavoli MPFI LPG kit & forget everything and you don't need to meddle with the ECU since it comes with all kind of goodies !!!
	() Thanks

15th May 2007, 11:28	#6
swathyd BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: thiruvananthapuram Posts: 774 Thanked: 25 Times	Zavoli comes with an ECU am i right ? How is its performane vs petrol. Please tell the price.
	() Thanks

17th May 2007, 06:24	#7
mithun BANNED Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cochin Posts: 2,195 Thanked: 268 Times	Zavoli comes with all sort of sensors. There is about 10% performance drop when compared to petrol. The cost will be about Rs.22-24000 for Palio without RTO endorsement.
	() Thanks

17th May 2007, 10:24	#8
mail4ajo Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,957 Thanked: 331 Times View My Garage	As far as I know, no standard kit in India comes with stand alone ECU unless you ask for it. The imported kits are meant to be fitted with the ECU and sensors, but omitted by most installers to keep cost down and users are not aware of the benefits. I was not told about it when I installed mine. The LPG kit that is usually fixed is totally free from the existing MPFI unit. It will not and cannot tamper with ECU timing. Do not try timing change or remap when fixing LPG kits since it will create havoc when running on petrol. Best option to go for a separate ECU and sensors which doesnt require manual tuning. Will work almost like MPFI. I propose to do it in a few weeks.
	() Thanks

17th May 2007, 21:50	#11
swathyd BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: thiruvananthapuram Posts: 774 Thanked: 25 Times	Tell us more after installation.
	() Thanks

28th May 2007, 22:28	#12
kshastry BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 48 Thanked: 11 Times	Hi mail4ajo, I am interested to know your experiences. As far as I have seen, no LPG kit dealers of B'lore whom I have met so far had no knowledge on separate ECU/ECM units. Worse, some of them doesn't even know what ECU stands for and where it can be found in a car. They claim to have installed kits on 1000's of cars running successfully on LPG. They insisted that they won't tamper with any ECU, injectors or wiring of existing MPFI engines. My car is a Matiz. They claimed I don't even be needing the lambda sensors. None of the so called Italian kits I came across were all original Italian made. The dealers themselves revealed it. Only vapourizer is Italian. Rest are all Indian made. If anyone has the knowledge of any dealer in Bangalore who could install a original Italian kit with ECM, lambda sensor et al, please let me know.
	() Thanks