[LONG_TOURER]

Originally Posted by Big Smoke

Won't parking the car and idling at higher RPMs for about 30 mins solve the issue? I believe that's what the system essentially is in any car with the self-regeneration feature.

Unfortunately this feature is limited to only 1 or 2 cars as of now. Hence for most of the car, it is required to drive the car for several kms with RPM above 2k with a minimum of speed of 60kmph.

[Big Smoke]

Originally Posted by LONG_TOURER

Unfortunately this feature is limited to only 1 or 2 cars as of now. Hence for most of the car, it is required to drive the car for several kms with RPM above 2k with a minimum of speed of 60kmph.

No, what I was meaning to say is that can't we manually idle the car for 30 mins at high RPMs for the filter to de-clog? I believe that should solve the issue. It can be done in any BS6 Diesel car.

[LONG_TOURER]

Originally Posted by Big Smoke

No, what I was meaning to say is that can't we manually idle the car for 30 mins at high RPMs for the filter to de-clog? I believe that should solve the issue. It can be done in any BS6 Diesel car.

I dont think that is going to work out. The ECU has been programmed to do the active regeneration only when the car moves above 60kmph or 2nd gear, atleast my Tucson's owners manual say so. I believe revving the car at idle above 2k rpm will only waste fuel if the ECU is not programmed to do active regeneration. Experts may shade light into this if i am wrong.

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by Big Smoke

No, what I was meaning to say is that can't we manually idle the car for 30 mins at high RPMs for the filter to de-clog? I believe that should solve the issue. It can be done in any BS6 Diesel car.

What an irony these technologies are! BS6, DPF etc are in the picture and working overtime to cut down on pollution. To make them work, we've to burn more fuel and pollute more

Originally Posted by LONG_TOURER

Unfortunately this feature is limited to only 1 or 2 cars as of now. Hence for most of the car, it is required to drive the car for several kms with RPM above 2k with a minimum of speed of 60kmph.

Innova Crysta, XUV 300, new Thar are few of those which has an onboard manual DPF regeneration system. Attaching a video on the steps to be followed for Thar.

https://youtu.be/MssT-2JUzLg

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by LONG_TOURER

I dont think that is going to work out. The ECU has been programmed to do the active regeneration only when the car moves above 60kmph or 2nd gear, atleast my Tucson's owners manual say so. I believe revving the car at idle above 2k rpm will only waste fuel if the ECU is not programmed to do active regeneration. Experts may shade light into this if i am wrong.

Actually, It may work.

The Soot accumulated in the DPF will be burned off automatically when the exhaust gas temperatures are high.
The exhaust gas temperatures are considered high in Diesel Only when they are 'continuously' running at over 1500-2000rpm.

This High Temperature can be achieved either by stepping-on-it on the Highway OR by revving the engine while stationary (either automatically via Active Regen OR via manual revving).

One thing to note, this Active Regeneration is not good for the engine, if it is performed multiple times. (As per Hyundai Diesel Owner's Manuals)
Looks like there is risk of Engine Oil Dilution, if these activities are frequently performed.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

One thing to note, this Active Regeneration is not good for the engine, if it is performed multiple times. (As per Hyundai Diesel Owner's Manuals)
Looks like there is risk of Engine Oil Dilution, if these activities are frequently performed.

Good point.
Petrol car manuals discourage against idling the engine during cold starts and avoid unnecessary idling while stationary, doesn't the same hold good for diesels or am I missing something here ?
I am getting a feeling that the park-regen feature is an add-on or a limited use feature and hasn't been intended for regular usage(like once a week).

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by shancz

Good point.
Petrol car manuals discourage against idling the engine during cold starts and avoid unnecessary idling while stationary, doesn't the same hold good for diesels or am I missing something here ?
I am getting a feeling that the park-regen feature is an add-on or a limited use feature and hasn't been intended for regular usage(like once a week).

Yes, correct.
This is definitely not a weekly affair.
Not only will it be a collosal fuel wastage, it may have damaging effect on the engine as well, if performed excessively.

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by shancz

I am getting a feeling that the park-regen feature is an add-on or a limited use feature and hasn't been intended for regular usage(like once a week).

This can't be performed at will. Only after the DPF gets clogged/about to the clogged (basis whatever threshold the manufacturer has set) does the manual regen option becomes available for one to initiate it.

[Big Smoke]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

One thing to note, this Active Regeneration is not good for the engine, if it is performed multiple times. (As per Hyundai Diesel Owner's Manuals)
Looks like there is risk of Engine Oil Dilution, if these activities are frequently performed.

Originally Posted by shancz

Good point.
Petrol car manuals discourage against idling the engine during cold starts and avoid unnecessary idling while stationary, doesn't the same hold good for diesels or am I missing something here ?

Both of you are absolutely right. In the BS4 era, almost every new car's owners manual stated that revving the car for a prolonged period of time while the car is stationary = engine abuse, and any damage suffered during this activity wouldn't be covered under warranty. I'm not sure about now. I've not yet gone through the entire owner's manual of my BS6 Diesel car.

Now these are strange times that we live in, where car manufacturers intentionally put in features to run the engine in high RPM for a specific purpose (self regeneration).

Quite perplexing.

[karthikd21]

Originally Posted by LONG_TOURER

So can we assume that the new XUV700 and the Scorpio would be less prone to DPF failure as they were extensively tested on those mountains ? Well, only time will tell.
.

We had seen the new Thar being tested a lot as well in the Himalayan region. But, it has broken down as per above reports. Recent Scoda Kushaq breaking down and this news Affirms the thought of never buying a freshly baked product.

[amit_purohit20]

Originally Posted by shancz

I would like to remind fellow BHPians that without the DPF the soot was being shot out in the open ruining the surroundings for the people behind, unless they are themselves windowed up, behind the windscreen of their cars, probably belching out similar amounts for the ones behind them and finally resting on the face of some poor biker like me

Offtopic-
This is what happens to our (bikers) faces in Ladakh when you are following a diesel vehicle. You can clearly see not only my face but my spectacles are also covered with soot hampering my much needed visibility.
Driving with visor down is not an option for a biker with spectacles especially in cold hills because the spectacles start fogging.

In higher altitudes you need a higher exhaust temperature to burn the soot in DPF. For higher exhaust temperatures you need more fuel to be injected. But more fuel to be injected means more air (oxygen) required to burn it otherwise again it will create more Soot. This is a vicious cycle.

If you want to regenerate in Ladakh you will raise engine rpms by pressing accelerator. But pressing accelerator means more fuel injected. And more fuel injected in combustion chamber without sufficient quantity of oxygen being present there, it would again cause soot formation clogging DPF.

Probable solutions (Only for higher altitude driving)-
1) Drive car in lower gears with less accelerator input rather than getting desired torque in higher gear by pressing the accelerator.
2) For automatic cars use manual mode to achieve point 1
3) Diesel engine is a "excess air engine". The more the air (oxygen) better for the combustion. So logically increasing your turbocharger air boost should help in high altitudes.This is again dependent on exhaust gas flow and can't be controlled directly. Should we add and electric turbo for such conditions?
4) A friend who has good knowledge of engines suggested using 100% pure Isopropyl Alcohol IPA mixed with Diesel. 1 litre in tankfull. This will make diesel burn easily in rarified air, raise temperatures and help reduce generation of soot. It seems he has used this in couple of BS6 cars with at least no short term side-effects but these cars never went to Ladakh, so its just a thought not a recommendation.
5) What about ensuring regeneration is done before entering high altitude zones? To ensure we start with a cleaner DPF thus taking more time to clog. Probably would give us a better chance of completing our journey before DPF gets clogged entirely.
6) Never commit the mistake of trying to regenerate DPF yourself by giving accelerator and raising engine rpms in rarified air.

These are just some thoughts, we can delve further.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by amit_purohit20

Driving with visor down is not an option for a biker with spectacles especially in cold hills because the spectacles start fogging.

Indeed, hadn't occurred to me and the visors fog as well. when it gets darker the visor has to be flipped anyway for better visibility.

Originally Posted by amit_purohit20

5) What about ensuring regeneration is done before entering high altitude zones?

This seems to be the most workable idea, the remaining won't find wider acceptability IMHO.
If the IPA solution works without side effects then the OEMs can start marketing it as "mountain juice"

Originally Posted by Big Smoke

Now these are strange times that we live in, where car manufacturers intentionally put in features to run the engine in high RPM for a specific purpose (self regeneration).

I think they ran out of options/time to make the diesels BS6 compatible, they made it work but with riders. Let's how the next gen diesels pan out.

amit_purohit20 has summed it up perfectly and I agree

Originally Posted by amit_purohit20

This is a vicious cycle.

[channelv]

Asking for a friend who owns a 2021 Fortuner AT 4*4

His car has done ~1,000Km and has been first serviced for one month at Toyota.

We have planned a longish round trip from Hyderabad to Manali and some other higher passes (if not snow blocked) in December

Will like to understand on the DPF issues for Fortuner ? Till now his car hasn't run an automatic regeneration.
When should that be manually regenerated ?
Can someone point out which is the switch for manual regeneration in an Automatic Fortuner?

Will driving in Sports mode help?

Thanks

[sukarsan]

Originally Posted by LONG_TOURER

I dont think that is going to work out. The ECU has been programmed to do the active regeneration only when the car moves above 60kmph or 2nd gear, atleast my Tucson's owners manual say so. I believe revving the car at idle above 2k rpm will only waste fuel if the ECU is not programmed to do active regeneration. Experts may shade light into this if i am wrong.

You're right For burning the soot in dpf a temp of 600 is ideal.This is achieved by injecting fuel when piston is at bottom dead center(sometime an additional injector is placed in exhaust line). Fuel burns in DOC and reaches 600 degree, burning the soot on Dpf. Unless this extra fuel is injected, soot cannot be burnt.

Same logic, irrespective of burning while in motion (active regen) or standstill (service regeneration).

There is another mode called passive regeneration. This would be of academic interest wrt this thread.
Those interested can look it up.

Mod Note: Please avoid typing with excessive dots...like...this.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by channelv

Will like to understand on the DPF issues for Fortuner ? Till now his car hasn't run an automatic regeneration.
When should that be manually regenerated ?
Can someone point out which is the switch for manual regeneration in an Automatic Fortuner?

Will driving in Sports mode help?

Thanks

Fortuner and Innova comes with a manual regeneration button. The button will become active only after DPF has clogged beyond a limit and vehicle has not been able to trigger autoregenration to clean the filter. The MID will display a warning during this time. You have to stop the vehicle, put in park and trigger regeneration. If you don't do this and keep running the vehicle till it reaches the max limit of filter, the MID will display a warning to take it to service centre. You will then have to do it with the dealership's help.

I don't own a Fortuner, but learned this as part of the buying process from youtube. Its mentioned in this video.I haven't yet come across an owner who had to trigger this manual regen process. The auto regen takes care of it mostly it seems.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=97KJaPUHzAs