[vinaydatla]

I have received the estimate of repairs for approval exclusive of labour charges. As I am stuck in another city and can't take risk with an unknown FNG, I will most likely go ahead with the repairs at the A.S.S.

[RGK]

Originally Posted by Turbohead

Guess we know who will soon be following Ford out of India.

Maybe. Ford's exit was definitely not due to poor service. They had an excellent service setup and escalation platform. They fine-tuned their system that reached the Service head (Mr. Ominder)after 24-48 hours automatically if there is no update.

NB: I once got my wheel stud replaced free of cost even after 4th-year warranty and have received extra discounts on high-cost spares as well.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Laidbackakki

If anyone could suggest any ideas from where I can source my part it would be helpful.

Torque converters don't fail so easily. I suggest you take the car to a Bosch garage for a second FNG opinion and see what they say. They are generally well equipped to handle Euro cars. Remind them its a torque converter and not a dsg.

An alternative option is to locate a scarp yard and look for VW or Skoda cars with the same gearbox. The Vento and Rapid were sold with the same engine and gearbox combination. Its a gamble but worth giving it a go if you can procure a gearbox at a fraction of the cost.

[praveen789]

Originally Posted by vinaydatla

Attachment 2264890

Off topic: I got a minor shock looking at the quotation. Can't they format it properly to put proper spaces between the totals! I thought the gross total was 69,362.8519,107.15. Ignoring the first period that is 69362 crores

@Vinay - I think it is better to do it from the service center. I believe they give a 2 year warranty of all original spares and that gives some piece of mind.

[DeepCarTalk]

What i find hilarious is that these companies feed their press releases with how nobel they are and how they care about the environment-sustainability and everything around and in between.

But their core practices are so flawed. Basic items are never repaired but replaced. Imagine the kind of waste it adds and something that can be avoided by a tweak in the operations.

I have seen reduce-reuse-recycle sign at my local VW workshop.

I can assure you the only thing they reduce in my bank balance.

The only thing they reuse is the term 'sir abs sensor failed sir, wear and tear' and the only thing they recycle is their attitude to solving problems.

oh and;
AHEM-dieselgate-AHEM

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by GTO

VW-Skoda owners: How much cheaper would an independent garage be in this case?

A known Laura DSG owner got his mechatronics repaired last year in Bangalore for 40-45K. It was also a typical DSG failure where the ASC suggested the full gearbox replacement which was quoted 4 lakhs+ IIRC.

[stringbh]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv

My Rapid used to be pretty silent but on one service visit, these idiots flashed the dieselgate fix without informing me. I gave a Rapid for service and took back a tractor that day.

Well put.

Is there a way to reverse this? Similar thing happened with my Vento. I kept refusing their fix and one fine day they just went ahead without informing me.

I will be in the market soon for an automatic, with an eye on Slavia, but the DSG breakdowns are worrying.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Like this, Why cant the company offer such a solution instead of asking to change the whole unit? Did they not think about this in their India 2.0? Its high time they do so.

It's not easy to hire, train and retain qualified technicians at scale and across geographies. It is not worth the hassle. Just give adequate warranty to avoid customer wrath and legal liabilities and replace the part. The faulty ones are refurbished in a central facility and shipped back as warranty replacements. From a business point of view, this is good enough and needs far less effort. This is the future and it will stay that way in every domain. Businesses don't necessarily hate customers - it's a nightmare to hire/train/retain skilled labour.

The problem is that we in India have no concept of consumer protection and most executives lack empathy. We are also not a big enough market to send a loud message to the HQ for better warranty support.

As a buyer, do your homework and always have a contingency plan.

[VinsWagen]

I own a 2016 Rapid 1.5 TDI with an odo reading of 70k. The DSG gearbox had been an absolute delight and serving us well without a single glitch so far; but each time I take it out for a long trip, my favorite Gods get their share of bribe offerings. I was beginning to think Skoda/VW has put these behind them but how wrong I was. It is no more the question of whether the DSG will fail me, but of when. So sad and such a pity.

VW/Skoda DSGs deserve another badge of honor in Team-BHP, say, by marking it specifically as a notable exclusion to the 'keep-your-car-for-10-years' guideline from GTO's insightful and helpful "ARTICLE: YOUR 5 year old car : Keep, Upgrade or Swap?"

Alas! The charm of the Devil is always so hard to resist. I still want to get a Skoda to replace my aging Rapid. Even without the DSG, they give the most sorted-out, planted, solid yet comfortable rides that make it look like they have a magic recipe that the others could not crack yet, at similar price points. I had almost made up my mind to go for the Slavia as my replacement and I think I will still stick to it, as long as they don't price it exorbitantly. But the 1.5 DSG is now out of contention for sure. It will be the 1.0 TSI TC instead - Hope to make an angel out of the devil without his horns.

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by audioholic

why arent they preparing their service technicians to be able to repair the mechatronics unit? Across the world, independent mechanics have done so.

I believe the whole situation arises due to the design philosophy of the Germans. When designing subsystems such as the DSG transmission, it is always a trade off between performance, reliability, efficiency and cost. The priorities of VW are performance, efficiency, reliability and finally cost. Remember that these transmissions were originally designed for higher end vehicles and found themselves slowly trickling down to mass market cars. Also the design team tends to simplify the boundary conditions of the design. So, elements such as the amount of dirt and dust in the environment, extreme traffic congestion that stresses the gearbox, extreme heat and humidity etc. are kept outside of the design conditions at first - The idea being that the system should deliver the best possible performance in their most important markets such as Europe and North America (where such extreme ambient conditions do not exist). These off-boundary conditions are then layered into the design, by making tweaks and minor improvements to try to accommodate these extreme conditions.

On the other hand, if Toyota or Honda were to design the same gearbox, these outside-the-boundary conditions actually come inside the boundary, given that the markets for a company like Toyota are truly global and span many tropical and developing nations. So a design that cannot function in these types of difficult conditions, will not even pass the first iteration. This also means that Toyota has to stay away from some technologies that may be truly innovative and can work wonders under certain conditions, but not generalisable to the rest of the world markets. One sees Toyota and Honda sticking on to tried and tested designs such a torque-converters and CVTs, just for this reason. Another example is how they resisted turbocharging in the mainstream engines for the longest time, and even today, most of the Toyota and Honda petrol cars sold in India are still only naturally aspirated and not turbocharged.

You make a good point about the "right to repair" - this movement is gaining ground around the world, especially in the West. Concerns arise as the amount of electrical, electronic and mechanical assemblies that are discarded rather than repaired has grown up tremendously in the last 20 years causing a huge accumulation of e-waste and other material waste, harming the environment. However, repairing a sophisticated item such as a DSG gearbox in a country like India, introduces the same dilemma for these European car makers. How can one guarantee performance in already difficult conditions with the gearbox that has failed once and is being reconditioned? That too, where mechanics do not follow standard operating procedure to the T, but believe in using their ingenuity and ideas?

The best way to address this dilemma might be to equip third parties, provide the training and parts required for repairing DSG transmission, so that the company does not directly need to get involved and put its reputation on the line in terms of the repair aspect of this gearboxes. The whole thing can be kept at arm's length, while still allowing the right to repair and improving perception about the expense of long-term maintenance and repair of the DSG boxes.

[lapis_lazuli]

IMHO, Car OEMs do not think of repairs as a sustainable revenue model. Diagnosis, repair and subsequent liability/post repair consequential responsibility, is far more expensive than outright replacement. A workshop manual itself is difficult to comprehend and adhere to by ill trained mechanics, imagine repair manuals for each and every repairable part! And complex DSG repair? Wow! "Deep Shit... Guaranteed"!

The real problem is indiscriminate replacement or mis diagnosis. Even Maruti would not repair a broken wiper motor or an alternator with worn carbon. Something as complex as a DSG needs more than just a 350/- a day mechanic. Whether a centralised repair facility could be set up, under factory engineering supervision, is a different line of thought. Again, cost of carriage, labour, part, insurance and overhead would be comparable to outright cost of replacement. It may be better to not expect repairs undertaken at any workshop.

[roadrunner_nv]

Originally Posted by stringbh

Well put.

Is there a way to reverse this? Similar thing happened with my Vento. I kept refusing their fix and one fine day they just went ahead without informing me.

I remapped the Rapid to a Code6 Stage 2. It resolved the clatter issue.

Originally Posted by stringbh

I will be in the market soon for an automatic, with an eye on Slavia, but the DSG breakdowns are worrying.

Stay away. VAG = Joy for 5 days, sorrow for 360 (my personal experience and opinion)

[Kosfactor]

It does not look like a complex gearbox at all , nor does the mechatronics unit look complicated.

https://youtu.be/-MQsTed46ss

Perhaps FNGs are not interested in taking it apart and fixing it for some reason.

[Rajiv Krishnan]

Originally Posted by audioholic

why arent they preparing their service technicians to be able to repair the mechatronics unit?

I have been pondering over this as well. It is after all a piece of equipment like any other and if it was designed by humans, it should be fixable by humans. My reasoning is that, if the full DSG unit actually costs 4 lakhs, mechanics might be too scared to even touch it in case they get something wrong and break it, in which case they would have to compensate the customer out of their own pocket. As to why VW ASS are not willing to open it up and repair it, I honestly have no idea. Maybe if there was a strong enough class action lawsuit they might decide to change their policy towards DSG failures. Or maybe they might just get rid of the DSG like they did with the new Polo.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Across the world, independent mechanics have done this successfully. Even in our own country, mechanics are learning this and are offering solutions to these DSG failures. Why cant the manufacturer do this and offer cheaper repair solutions to owners? Is it sheer arrogance on their side or something else?

I think it is mostly driven by economics (or the lack of it) = not enough sales in India to justify creating an ecosystem of comprehensive repairs via authorised dealerships.
The DSG is a complex box and VAG India just wants to play this 'breakdown' game by sourcing replacements from HQ, which seems to be a relatively easier option than taking the trouble of repairing it.

However, what VAG doesn't understand is that by continuing to do, they will find it very difficult to improve their 'economics', as stated earlier.

Originally Posted by vinaydatla

I have received the estimate of repairs for approval exclusive of labour charges. As I am stuck in another city and can't take risk with an unknown FNG, I will most likely go ahead with the repairs at the A.S.S.

Can you try raising your angst at https://www.consumercomplaints.in, and tag VW India?

This is quite a big forum and this example shows, how VW was tracking a similar DSG gearbox failure.
Maybe your case will get their attention for some sort of goodwill action!

Originally Posted by androdev

The problem is that we in India have no concept of consumer protection and most executives lack empathy. We are also not a big enough market to send a loud message to the HQ for better warranty support.

Indeed.
And sadly, this is prevalent for quite a few industries.