[wooka]

Good news!
The Thar has NO SECURITY SYSTEM!
It's all a big lie.

Symptoms:
1. The car alarm doesn't buzz if the door harness is disconnected when the LOCK button is pressed on the remote.
2. The car alarm doesn't buzz if the car is locked but unlocked via a key turn.
3. The car alarm doesn't buzz if the car is locked but unlocked manually while sitting indoors.
4. None of this has anything to do with ignition since the alarm is totally useless

Here's the brochure (updated, 2022 Nov, MLD optional):
Anti-Theft Alarm


Here's the manual:
Using the ignition key to open the door, when the vehicle was locked and armed with smart key will be treated as unauthorized by the system setting on the alarm.
Press the unlock button on the smart key to cancel the alarm.





Official response after a three-month-long interaction with Mahindra support:
The feature Buzzer/ Alarm asked by you is not available in New Thar.

I asked:
1. Can this be fixed via software (BCM/ECU)
> Answer: No (?)
2. Can I have an escalation matrix since I am deeply dissatisfied?
> Answer: No answer for weeks despite reminders.
3. I will file for a refund if my vehicle is insecure in this country.
> Answer: Silence. Verbally, said yes sir I (Ankur Sharma @ Mahindra) agree, but I cannot fix this for you.

@gto can you please post this as NEWS to gain more visibility?

[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by wooka

The Thar has NO SECURITY SYSTEM!
...

Those who travel in your Thar with luggages, laptops, etc. BE MINDFUL OF THIS.

When you lock your Thar with a remote, if a thief jimmi' either of the doors (or breaks glass) and opens the door THERE WILL BE NO SECURITY ALARM SIREN.

If you have a soft top, of anyone unzips the windows or the rear, opens the front or rear doors, and walks away with your luggage or anything else that's there in your Thar, THERE WILL BE NO SECURITY ALARM SIREN

The only times you'll have a siren in the Thar is if either of the doors is open and you press the lock button in the remote, or you press the middle button in the remote.

Be it your daily driver, overlander, weekend drive. Be it hard top or convertible top. Be mindful not to leave anything in the vehicle even for a short while if the Thar is going to be out of sight in an unmonitored parking location.


I'm working with my MASS co-tech team (who are connected with M&M about this) to see if there is a solution. Will keep the thread updated.

[wooka]

Guys you are TBHP..

The only thing that can spur Mahindra into action is a mass interest in the single biggest security mess up I've seen in years and that they're trying to bury it.

Go report it to your service centers.
Make a difference in your volumes. Like any other Mahindra service action, they do so only after a wave of Complaints...

Get moving. Make your actions count..

[GTO]

Thanks for sharing, wooka! Moving your post out to a new thread so as to warn others. A new thread means 100X the views & 100X the visibility in search engines, including Google. Will add to homepage next week .

@ BHPians, if you should spot any noteworthy post in an existing thread that deserves its own new thread, please report the post and we'll move it out for greater visibility.

Thank you!

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by ph03n!x

The only times you'll have a siren in the Thar is if either of the doors is open and you press the lock button in the remote, or you press the middle button in the remote.

.

Okay so this means that the required hardware is there since the alarm and the sensor to detect an open door are both present in the car. It seems someone in programming department messed up the logic in the conditions to trigger the alarm. If the alarm is controlled by the ECU, then it is a simple software issue that can be flashed. If it is controlled by physical NAND / NOR gate circuitry, it could mean some hardware needs to be swapped.

I do not know if the alarm system is controlled by the ECU so someone else feel free to chime in.

[batish]

Alright, apart from this flaw is there any chance that vehicle can start with any key apart from those provided. I mean to ask does immobilizer work like it is supposed to or can we expect some glitch too in it's working?

[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by Cresterk

Okay so this means that the required hardware is there since the alarm and the sensor to detect an open door are both present in the car. It seems someone in programming department messed up the logic in the conditions to trigger the alarm. If the alarm is controlled by the ECU, then it is a simple software issue that can be flashed. If it is controlled by physical NAND / NOR gate circuitry, it could mean some hardware needs to be swapped. I do not know if the alarm system is controlled by the ECU so someone else feel free to chime in.

Unfortunately that's not what I've heard so far. The door-open-when-locking-with-remote seems to be a different circuit. The security system seems to have a dependency on having a hood-open sensor (which the Thar doesn't have). At least that's what I've heard so far...

Originally Posted by batish

Alright, apart from this flaw is there any chance that vehicle can start with any key apart from those provided. I mean to ask does immobilizer work like it is supposed to or can we expect some glitch too in it's working?

No, it does have an engine immobilizer - do unless the key is matched with they one programmed in the immobilizer, it won't start.

BUT.


Cloning this ain't rocket science, and is a hifi thief clones your security chip's frequency, they can open the door without triggering any alarm (coz there's none!) and drive away...

[Nalin1]

Oh that is a shocker from one of India's most popular cars .

My 2006 Verna had the alarm that triggered off when manually opened/opened from inside after remote locking. 99% of Thar owners would have not even realized it as no one actually checks this functionality. People play around with every single feature after bringing the car home, how many actually check this all important security feature?

[Lowflyer23]

Shocking? Not to me at least. What can one expect from these local manufacturers who are more inclined towards copying others and jugaad than proper R&D. Twin displays and all is fine, but this shows the lack of focus at the basic components. It's apparent that very few would criticize it now, had this issue been found on a global manufacturer's car, this thread would have already been 5 pages long and filled with bashing left, right and centre.

[RunGaDa]

This is the travesty of India. The govt will go at lengths on how to tax the vehicles, but when it comes to mandating simple things like security alarm system, they will look away.

And not all manufacturers are going to give this to you. They want to extract maximum profits.

After market alarm systems are only nuisance to the neighbors. They set off when least expected and play dead when someone actually try to break in.

The prerogative should be on the manufacturer to provide this as an essential feature across all variants.
The govt should make laws to mandate this.

[Silent Buddha]

So the vehicle does not have an alarm if somebody tries to open the door while the vehicle is locked or if there is some impact?

In that case is it not a case of Mahindra trying to fool the customers via incorrect marketing? Afaik it should be straight up illegal if true.

Also, it's a shame that manufacturers have to go to this extent just for profits. These days Indians are ready to pay for a slightly superior experience. Even the Govt is slowly understanding this. I don't get why manufacturers have to cut such small corners in the first place

[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Oh that is a shocker from one of India's most popular cars .

My 2006 Verna had the alarm that triggered off when manually opened/opened from inside after remote locking. 99% of Thar owners would have not even realized it as no one actually checks this functionality. People play around with every single feature after bringing the car home, how many actually check this all important security feature?

Cavaet emptor

I don't think most of the owners know or are aware till now that there's no security alarm.

I didn't, until @highwaypatrol asked this in the Thar ownership thread. I assumed that there is a security system.

Because the website said so.
Because the brochures said so.
Because the user manual said so.

And because I bought my top-end Thar in 2020, and my wife's 2015 Tata Nano XTA had it.

So I was actually surprised, taken aback even - when I discovered my Thar doesn't have this advertised, basic feature.

But now that I know what I know, I'm bloody paranoid.

Tell me, what'll you do if you're sightseeing with a fully packed Thar - haul them luggage through every stop/ Place of Interest you halt at?!

Originally Posted by Silent Buddha

So the vehicle does not have an alarm if somebody tries to open the door while the vehicle is locked or if there is some impact?

None of the above - it doesn't sound an alarm when somebody opens the door locked with the remote either with a key or physically unlocks it from the inside (basic expectation). It doesn't sound on impact (which I'm not bothered about)

Originally Posted by Silent Buddha

In that case is it not a case of Mahindra trying to fool the customers via incorrect marketing? Afaik it should be straight up illegal if true.

Doesn't all manuals and brochures carry disclaimers that any and all features are subject to change

Originally Posted by Silent Buddha

Also, it's a shame that manufacturers have to go to this extent just for profits. These days Indians are ready to pay for a slightly superior experience. Even the Govt is slowly understanding this. I don't get why manufacturers have to cut such small corners in the first place

I don't think this is cost cutting. This is some logic that's beyond me, where the module that handles security is Mahindra vehicles depends on having a hood-open sensor, which the Thar doesn't have.

Like I posted earlier, I'm working with the dealer's tech team, and through them, M&M to figure this out.

I've travelled with a loaded Thar - Convertible Top, at that - through nooks and corners of all the 5 Southern States and Goa.

I've left some luggage (ones I may not immediately need) in the Thar out of sight, assuming the vehicle with scream murder if someone zips open the windows and attempts to open the door or the rear hatch door to attempt a robbery.

[soumobakshi]

Originally Posted by wooka

Good news!
The Thar has NO SECURITY SYSTEM!
It's all a big lie.

Symptoms:

2. The car alarm doesn't buzz if the car is locked but unlocked via a key turn.
Did you try this with the key that came with the car or a mechanically identical key you made from a locksmith? If its the former,i will actually appreciate M&M for doing it rather than creating a nuisance for the authorised owner with the Physical key

3. The car alarm doesn't buzz if the car is locked but unlocked manually while sitting indoors.
Why should this trigger an Alarm? I find it as a convenience again in my day to day use. How i open the door should be decided by me and not a programmer

Yes, if someone breaks open the glass and manually opens the door it should trigger an Alarm by means of BCM alert mechanism. However for CT owners security is a joke

[ankan.m.blr]

Is this security lapse specific to the new Thar or the same issue can be found in XUV700 & Scorpio-N too?

[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by soumobakshi

Yes, if someone breaks open the glass and manually opens the door it should trigger an Alarm by means of BCM alert mechanism. However for CT owners security is a joke

Why would you say so? Even for CT, security alarm is still a deterrent.

Scenario 1 (could happen in any highway travel I've done for 40k KM in my Thar):

Two cabin-sized luggages placed behind the driver seat cannot be taken out by unzipping the rear window - the rear hatch door MUST be opened to take them out. This is for everything you keep in the boot, esp if the seat is fully inclined.


All this while, I was assuming my Thar will alert me if someone to flick stuff from the boot when I'm, say having food by the highway. But little did I know that anyone can unzip the rear window (above the hatch door), unlock and open the hatch door, and take the bags out.

And the Thar will not make a sound!

So it's not just about leaving, say a phone or laptop or ₹500 in the front seat in a CT - this affects leaving stuff in the boot, hidden fron plain sight

Scenario 2 is what you said, with a twist.

If a thief manages to clone the immobilizer code, then they can start and drive away the Thar without any alert - with HT, they'll have to jimmi the door or break glass. With a CT, they can just open the rear window to unlock the front door, start and drive away.

We've seen videos of this happen to Scorpio, Creta, Compass etc. where the alarm sounds before it gets shut off - in the Thar, the thief won't have to take that trouble either.

But that's the whole point of a security alarm, one more layer of bother/ deterrent - one that anyone assumes is available in a new car purchase, especially if it's advertised as being present, no?!

Originally Posted by ankan.m.blr

Is this security lapse specific to the new Thar or the same issue can be found in XUV700 & Scorpio-N too?

7OO and ScorpioN have front hood open sensors, so the alarm should be there - owners can try and confirm.