Air filter and Air intake

sunilvarma · 12th July 2007, 19:01

I heard a lot about the K&N air filters and air intake kits. Can I install them in my NHC GXi iDIS?

which models should I be installing if I want a increase in FE and also a little power boost and what would they cost me?

Thanks

Mayavi · 12th July 2007, 21:57

On standard econo sedans, Power is inversely proportional to FE. So you can't increase both at the same time and that too by adding just a air filter.
K&N does not increase fuel efficiency. Your OEM is designed to provide optimum air flow that the engine needs to provide maximum FE.
Power increase is debatable as it was never proven conclusively that adding a high flow filter with no other mods will increase power. K&N will increase air flow but then it doesn't filter as efficiently as your OEM.

My advice, stick with OEM air filter unless you have money to spend and want to 'mod' your car.

GTO · 13th July 2007, 12:26

Quote:

On standard econo sedans, Power is inversely proportional to FE. So you can't increase both at the same time

I wouldnt generalise that statement because a cars power output is only a part of how efficient the engine is. A well designed free-flow can actually increase the FE by making the engine "breathe" better.

vishnuvijay · 13th July 2007, 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

I wouldnt generalise that statement because a cars power output is only a part of how efficient the engine is. A well designed free-flow can actually increase the FE by making the engine "breathe" better.

yes i agree with what gto said. i had learned about it in college. i had also read the same in overdrive magazine. it was written that the free flow exhaust should be designed properly to increase FE and that a poor design could actually drop the FE. i suggest getting it done by a super expert.

Mayavi · 13th July 2007, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

I wouldnt generalise that statement because a cars power output is only a part of how efficient the engine is. A well designed free-flow can actually increase the FE by making the engine "breathe" better.

So you can increase both power and fuel efficiency on normal production cars by designing free flow which also doesn't effect the engine longevity? I am not sure how that thing works but I was thinking that Indian car makers will try to get the maximum FE for their engines even if they have to sacrifice some power.

1100D · 13th July 2007, 22:20

With better flow (air or exhaust), the load on the pistons reduces considerably and hence "Free"s up those losses. Sometimes its just a few norms the manufacturers have to abide by which prevents them from giving them in the first place (even if they intend to).

So it is like better utilising the power made by the engine.

But to make more power from the engine itself, will need mods to the internals.

palio1.6-2002 · 3rd November 2010, 16:46

Hello All,

I am trying to create a new cold air intake for my palio. I would like to know if a longer air intake, would like to take it all the way to the roof would have any advantage or a disadvantage as the air would have to travel a long way before it reaches the destination.

I might also liek to try something like the hood intake for turbos, that would bring in lot of air and some can be use by the air intake of K&N and rest be disposed off in the engine bay to help cool the area.

Any thoughts...

Invinsible · 3rd November 2010, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by palio1.6-2002

Hello All,

I am trying to create a new cold air intake for my palio. I would like to know if a longer air intake, would like to take it all the way to the roof would have any advantage or a disadvantage as the air would have to travel a long way before it reaches the destination.

I might also liek to try something like the hood intake for turbos, that would bring in lot of air and some can be use by the air intake of K&N and rest be disposed off in the engine bay to help cool the area.

Any thoughts...

Way back in 2001 I had changed the location of the battery to the place where OE air filter box is. After which used a straight 3 inch intake pipe going down to where the battery was kept, made a hole there for the 3 inch intake pipe which help in taking the pipe with K&N open filter down near the fog lamp. Removed both the fog lamp in the bumber replace with a mesh grill, got the Filter as close to the foglamp opening.

This way had the coldest air coming into the intake. Also, covered the back of the filter for letting all the cold air into the intake and as speed build more air rushed into the intake.

The result was way better than any setup I tried in this car. Had tried 2-3 different option before taking this step.

CPH · 4th November 2010, 02:16

The length is the least problem you will face. Picking up the air at the suggested locations need some testing before you can makr a definite miprovement. The ram air effect often does not work. due to the shape of cars you will have high pressure zones and others with varying pressures depending on spped. If the entry is not designed correctly the engine will be starved of air with increasing speed as turbulences increase on different places of the car's surface.

I design air intake for the aftermarket for a living and find the best place is usually under the bonnet beterrn wing, bumper and inner wing/shroud.

Under bonnet temperatures can be an issue, but is often over estimated..

Cold air feeds are also a double sided sword. The can feed cold air, but also can help starve the engine of air and of then increase the soiling rate of the filter element negating any positive effects.

I hope this helps.

Invinsible · 4th November 2010, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPH

I design air intake for the aftermarket for a living and find the best place is usually under the bonnet beterrn wing, bumper and inner wing/shroud.

I use to do the same once but the only difference was, as a hobby. Palio 1.6 OE intake system has a sharp bend and feeding air from where the air is least restrictive is good. However as you mentioned turbulence that's what needs to be taken care of. Making a straight through intake pipe for this car is what gives better result than the other standard options.

Sn1p3r · 4th November 2010, 10:58

+1 CPH and Invinsible.

@palio1.6-2002: The hood is a good place to vent heat and not that a great one for intake. Also, I have never seen a nice after market patch job. It will hold for a quarter or so. If you want to go in for a proper intake, talk to your tuner. As already mentioned it is important to have impeccable smooth flow for intake air. I am sure you have considered your daily grind. If this is not a daily drive then I may be wrong.

Cheers!

12th July 2007, 19:01	#1
sunilvarma Newbie Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: hyderabad Posts: 22 Thanked: 0 Times	Air filter and Air intake I heard a lot about the K&N air filters and air intake kits. Can I install them in my NHC GXi iDIS? which models should I be installing if I want a increase in FE and also a little power boost and what would they cost me? Thanks
	() Thanks

12th July 2007, 21:57	#2
Mayavi BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Scottsdale Posts: 682 Thanked: 9 Times View My Garage	On standard econo sedans, Power is inversely proportional to FE. So you can't increase both at the same time and that too by adding just a air filter. K&N does not increase fuel efficiency. Your OEM is designed to provide optimum air flow that the engine needs to provide maximum FE. Power increase is debatable as it was never proven conclusively that adding a high flow filter with no other mods will increase power. K&N will increase air flow but then it doesn't filter as efficiently as your OEM. My advice, stick with OEM air filter unless you have money to spend and want to 'mod' your car.
	() Thanks

13th July 2007, 22:20	#6
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,390 Thanked: 4,079 Times View My Garage	With better flow (air or exhaust), the load on the pistons reduces considerably and hence "Free"s up those losses. Sometimes its just a few norms the manufacturers have to abide by which prevents them from giving them in the first place (even if they intend to). So it is like better utilising the power made by the engine. But to make more power from the engine itself, will need mods to the internals. Last edited by 1100D : 13th July 2007 at 22:21.
	() Thanks

3rd November 2010, 16:46	#7
palio1.6-2002 BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chandigarh Posts: 28 Thanked: 0 Times	Air Intake Modifications Hello All, I am trying to create a new cold air intake for my palio. I would like to know if a longer air intake, would like to take it all the way to the roof would have any advantage or a disadvantage as the air would have to travel a long way before it reaches the destination. I might also liek to try something like the hood intake for turbos, that would bring in lot of air and some can be use by the air intake of K&N and rest be disposed off in the engine bay to help cool the area. Any thoughts...
	() Thanks

4th November 2010, 02:16	#9
CPH BHPian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: London Posts: 579 Thanked: 35 Times	The length is the least problem you will face. Picking up the air at the suggested locations need some testing before you can makr a definite miprovement. The ram air effect often does not work. due to the shape of cars you will have high pressure zones and others with varying pressures depending on spped. If the entry is not designed correctly the engine will be starved of air with increasing speed as turbulences increase on different places of the car's surface. I design air intake for the aftermarket for a living and find the best place is usually under the bonnet beterrn wing, bumper and inner wing/shroud. Under bonnet temperatures can be an issue, but is often over estimated.. Cold air feeds are also a double sided sword. The can feed cold air, but also can help starve the engine of air and of then increase the soiling rate of the filter element negating any positive effects. I hope this helps.
	() Thanks

4th November 2010, 10:58	#11
Sn1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 1,022 Thanked: 231 Times View My Garage	+1 CPH and Invinsible. @palio1.6-2002: The hood is a good place to vent heat and not that a great one for intake. Also, I have never seen a nice after market patch job. It will hold for a quarter or so. If you want to go in for a proper intake, talk to your tuner. As already mentioned it is important to have impeccable smooth flow for intake air. I am sure you have considered your daily grind. If this is not a daily drive then I may be wrong. Cheers!
	() Thanks