[Piyush Kanthak]

Assuming this is a DPF issue, can this lead to a diesel engine run away?

[Sameer016]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

Once you start enjoying that punchy 1.5 turbo diesel in the 2750 - 3500 rpm band, you will keep doing it often. I do it almost daily and I still get 18 kmpl overall actual T2T fuel efficiency. From time to time, its totally okay to accelerate hard

Thanks Prasanna, your Altroz thread brings a smile on my face, its good seeing Diesel Altroz being trouble free, even when its driven hard. Hope its stay this way for you. Yes, I need to change my driving style. What brings me some solace is the fact that nothing is really wrong with my engine, its just the BS6 DPF combo working the way it is supposed to be.

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by Sameer016

Hi,
My 2021 BS6 Diesel Altroz is experiencing higher level of engine oil since purchase.

SVC are hopeless as usual. Last year they replaced the injectors but this year too, when the time came for oil change the oil level was way higher than Max mark in dipstick (almost twice above max mark)

Only explanation I can think of is some how diesel is mixing with engine oil, causing its level to rise gradually.

Looking for advise to future course of action.

Baba, this will cause dilution of engine oil by diesel. See the problem with bs6 and dpf is that the car needs long journeys to allow the exhaust temperature hot enough to burn the soot, on short journeys and when the optimum temperature is not reached, the unburnt fuel is collected in the exhaust end and in the next start cycle, it mixes with the engine oil leading to its dilution. Repeated short trips will ensure your engine dies an early death, unless you ensure yoir engine oil is replaced in short intervals to keep the viscosity normal.

[Sameer016]

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

Baba, this will cause dilution of engine oil by diesel. See the problem with bs6 and dpf is that the car needs long journeys to allow the exhaust temperature hot enough to burn the soot, on short journeys and when the optimum temperature is not reached, the unburnt fuel is collected in the exhaust end and in the next start cycle, it mixes with the engine oil leading to its dilution. Repeated short trips will ensure your engine dies an early death, unless you ensure yoir engine oil is replaced in short intervals to keep the viscosity normal.

Yes, I learned that. Whats disappointing to me is, no one out of multiple sales executive i had, told me about this. I too should have researched this before i Made the purchase, had I known this, I would have never bought a Diesel.

[batish]

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

this will cause dilution of engine oil by diesel. See the problem with bs6 and dpf is that the car needs long journeys to allow the exhaust temperaturehot enough to burn the soot

True.

on short journeys and when the optimum temperature is not reached, the unburnt fuel is collected in the exhaust end and in the next start cycle, it mixes with the engine oil leading to its dilution.

I searched as to how DPF works and nowhere I could find any source which states that diesel backfires into engine. Even if the fumes and other particles backfire into engine, then the engine oil would wear out sooner.

Link

How and where is diesel or any other liquid going back to engine?

I don’t think diesel should mix with engine oil, won’t it lead to oil oxidising?

Even if we go by this theory that due to short distances DPF isn’t working as intended, then why is DPF warning not on console? Why is active/passive regen not working?

[Kars'n'Ketamine]

Hi,

I would like you to read about Land Rover Discovery Sport in-house developed 2 litre Ingenium diesel engine problem. This engine ends up with catastrophic failure at around 1.2 lakh to 2 lakh Kms. The Discovery sport forum is filled with people worried about this and some doing detailed analysis of metal content in the engine oil with every oil change! And why is that relevant in your case, you ask?!

The Tata owned JLR developed in-house Ingenium dumps crazy amount of diesel to burn the exhaust gases and if you interrupt the regen process, the excess diesel enters the sump and dilutes the engine oil (which others have mentioned above )

You have mentioned you take good care of the car. The only solution to your problem (apart from doing the long journeys allowing dpf regen) is changing the engine oil around 4k to 6k Kms!!
The dipstick shows almost double the max level. I doubt if the engine is getting better lubrication at all:-(.


And how do I know this? After months of research, I avoided buying the newer 2 litre Ingenium crap and instead got the Ford sourced 2.2 litre Discovery sport with Euro 5 spec.

I hope the mother earth forgives me :-(

[delusional_fool]

Originally Posted by batish

How and where is diesel or any other liquid going back to engine?

For active regen, there are 2 methods for injecting additional diesel for burning the soot - 1.Post-injection where existing injectors are used to spray diesel in the engine during exhaust stroke 2. Direct downstream injection using a separate 5th injector (doser valve).
The video you have mentioned explains about method 2 and I think this method doesn't cause oil dilution problem.

In method 1 ideal case scenario, all the additional diesel is expected to be vaporised and sent to DPF for regen. But some of the fuel may not vaporize during post injection and stick to the cylinder walls and eventually reach the oil sump.
Modern diesel engines employ multiple workarounds to tackle this issue so this might not be a huge issue in most cases but multiple active regen triggered during a short span of time (due to regen failure/cancellations) could act as a multiplier and cause oil dilution.

Originally Posted by batish

Even if we go by this theory that due to short distances DPF isn’t working as intended, then why is DPF warning not on console? Why is active/passive regen not working?

DPF warning turns on only if the soot reaches certain threshold and requires a forced regen I believe.
Passive regen works only during long trips and 50KM isn't long enough for this.
Active regen could get cancelled if the conditions aren't ideal (low engine RPM, frequent start-stops, etc)

[Kars'n'Ketamine]

Originally Posted by delusional_fool

For active regen, there are 2 methods for injecting additional diesel for burning the soot - 1.Post-injection where existing injectors are used to spray diesel in the engine during exhaust stroke 2. Direct downstream injection using a separate 5th injector (doser valve).
The video you have mentioned explains about method 2 and I think this method doesn't cause oil dilution problem.

In method 1 ideal case scenario, all the additional diesel is expected to be vaporised and sent to DPF for regen. But some of the fuel may not vaporize during post injection and stick to the cylinder walls and eventually reach the oil sump.
Modern diesel engines employ multiple workarounds to tackle this issue so this might not be a huge issue in most cases but multiple active regen triggered during a short span of time (due to regen failure/cancellations) could act as a multiplier and cause oil dilution.



DPF warning turns on only if the soot reaches certain threshold and requires a forced regen I believe.
Passive regen works only during long trips and 50KM isn't long enough for this.
Active regen could get cancelled if the conditions aren't ideal (low engine RPM, frequent start-stops, etc)

I can vouch for the last paragraph. I've had that experience with both 2 litre BMW N47T engine and VW 2.0 TDI.

Even with dpf warning on, the regen happened very selectively under ideal conditions. I used to take the cars on a long stretch on sundays (less traffic) and the regen would initiate only after 20 - 30kms of travelling.

Initially, i had to trial and error, use the OBD to see the exhaust temperatures and coast along for few seconds with foot off the accelerator to check higher idling rpm.

Finally concluded, the total distance needed would be around 60 to 80 kms with minimal interruptions.


Am I complaining ?!


Not at all!

Who doesn't love revving to 4k before upshifting and maintaining the revvs above 2k, experiencing the mid range torque.

I did not add liqui-molly or any additives to the diesel. At 650° Celsius, most of the carbon gunk would be burnt off and the high pressure common rail diesel pump would be spraying the diesel through injectors, like a volcano, into the combustion chambers.

If the above can't clean the engine, no additives would clean it either.


Sometimes, the car needs to be 'driven' for its own good!

[supermax]

Originally Posted by Sameer016

This was the oil level before 30k oil change
Attachment 2453139

This was last year at 15k oil change
Attachment 2453138

I'm going to take the Occam's razor approach to this. Are you sure you've checked the reading of the dipstick correctly? After the engine has run for a while, there's going to be plenty of splashing inside, so the dipstick will be wet far above the actual level. Wait for 30 minutes after a drive, during which the oil cools down but still stays warm, pull out the dipstick, wipe it completely clean, carefully reinsert it and then take a reading, drawing the dipstick out carefully. If you have done all this and the readings were accurate, I hope the other suggestions are more helpful to you.

[r24x7]

Reading all these comments, would it be fair to say that such problems do not occur ( as much ) on vehicles with SCR?

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by Kars'n'Ketamine

Hi,

I would like you to read about Land Rover Discovery Sport in-house developed 2 litre Ingenium diesel engine problem. This engine ends up with catastrophic failure at around 1.2 lakh to 2 lakh Kms. The Discovery sport forum is filled with people worried about this and some doing detailed analysis of metal content in the engine oil with every oil change! And why is that relevant in your case, you ask?!

The Tata owned JLR developed in-house Ingenium dumps crazy amount of diesel to burn the exhaust gases and if you interrupt the regen process, the excess diesel enters the sump and dilutes the engine oil (which others have mentioned above )

You have mentioned you take good care of the car. The only solution to your problem (apart from doing the long journeys allowing dpf regen) is changing the engine oil around 4k to 6k Kms!!
The dipstick shows almost double the max level. I doubt if the engine is getting better lubrication at all:-(.


And how do I know this? After months of research, I avoided buying the newer 2 litre Ingenium crap and instead got the Ford sourced 2.2 litre Discovery sport with Euro 5 spec.

I hope the mother earth forgives me :-(

I got my information from that only. My ingenium 2 liter diesel is thankfully a 2019 model which has no dpf in india. Happy times!

Originally Posted by supermax

I'm going to take the Occam's razor approach to this. Are you sure you've checked the reading of the dipstick correctly? After the engine has run for a while, there's going to be plenty of splashing inside, so the dipstick will be wet far above the actual level. Wait for 30 minutes after a drive, during which the oil cools down but still stays warm, pull out the dipstick, wipe it completely clean, carefully reinsert it and then take a reading, drawing the dipstick out carefully. If you have done all this and the readings were accurate, I hope the other suggestions are more helpful to you.

Dipstick oil must be measured when engine is overnight cold. Never on a warm engine. Extract from the landrover manusl.

[supermax]

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

Dipstick oil must be measured when engine is overnight cold. Never on a warm engine. Extract from the landrover manusl.

Probably varies a bit depending on the model, oil type etc. Overnight cold is actually not a good method as the oil volume may be misinterpreted to be lower than in real operating conditions. Hot oil is not good, but warm oil achieves a good balance. This is what I'd read.