[Auto_guy_101]

This is a rather interesting thread. While I have absolutely no experience with bikes (except as a pillion rider on some trips), when it comes to cars, I don't think I would agree 100% on the notion that Jap engines are better. That said, there are some specifics like

- The Honda 1.5 iv-tec is special in its own right.

- One of the reasons for the longevity of Toyota engines could be their under-tuned state.
Let's take the Fortuner (163 bhp @5200 rpm, ~245 Nm) in its petrol variant with a 2.6 L engine. The Tiguan/ Kodiaq which fall in the same price range and offer AWD DSGs have a 2.0 turbo petrol (190 bhp, revs to 6000 rpm, 320 Nm). A Euro car is very fun to drive while the Japanese one remains very reliable. Its a sort of trade off.

That said, I feel performance tuned engines like the 2.0 TSI if maintained well, like some people have suggested will age like fine wine.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by KrishnaMohan

I'm KrishnaMohan & this being my first post, I would like to invite the views of fellow members over the difference in power/toque retention between Japanese engines (read Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki et all) and their European counterparts (read VW/Skoda, Fiat, KTM, Renault, Ford included).

I would remove Ford from this list. Been a owner of pre owned ecosport S tdci (turned 5 year old) and this thing requires absolutely 0 maintenance apart from general service (each of the three annual paid services under me costed around 5-7 K).

Contrary to my dad's old amaze s idtec, engine,gearbox, steering required absolutely 0 maintenance. But the car in general required a lot of maintenance due to sub par parts and rattles all around.

[huntrz]

Not sure about technicalities but I have experienced this firsthand. It's not a one off experience because I have seen it occur like a pattern with multiple owners.

I and a friend of mine bought the same European brand car together in different cities well known(online) for handling, built, cult following and what not, heavily influenced by the online literatures. Both the cars developed engine issues, his at 40k km and mine at 70 k km. In my case the diagnosis and fix was also a headache as all the ASS workshops seemed to be inexperienced and ill equipped. Not to mention living with the notchy gearbox heavy hydraulic steering and clutch compared to superior experience from the competitors.

Next car was a Japanese and so was my dad's car( same manufacturer) which lasted 15yrs without a fuss, before selling it off. Mine is in 12th year 80k km. Absolutely no troubles from the car. What ever little niggles appear are taken car off by the ASS promptly. No headache of spares and the trouble of finding that experienced friendly neighborhood mechanic or garage.

Reliability and after sales support win over every other attribute. With all the crash test ratings, technologies like dual clutch and smaller but turbocharged engines offered by competitors I would still go for a reliable Japanese manufacturer eyes closed. The first car brand I mentioned was fiat and second one suzuki.

Having said that I don't know which dna has the Renault Nissan followed after merger and if their products would be Japanese or European.

[vedirah]

This is an interesting thread. As an engineer, I have seen the difference in the design approach between japs and Europeans. The Europeans tend to have a more performance-oriented approach, whereas the japs have a reliability oriented approach. European engines are built to deliver higher thermal efficiency (note that this is different from fuel efficiency). One part of this philosophy is reducing weight while increasing stiffness. This makes the components capable of taking higher loads, which magnifies the fatigue and creep behaviours of materials. This is also because Europeans have a very systems approach to design. In contrast, the japs focus heavily on reliability of each component. This stems from the component based design approach. It's a very traditional approach to engineering design. They design the component first and then build the system around it. This means each component is over-designed, and a side effect of that is higher weight and a lower power-to-weight ratio than comparable European engines (lower thermal efficiency). This is why European engines are generally more agile and faster.

I don't completely agree with the metallurgical pov a few have pointed out. Japanese used to be very good at materials, but they have lost their edge over the past century. Europeans have very good capability when it comes to metallurgy. Especially in my field (gas turbines, aero engines), Europeans have pioneered some of the most advanced research into metallurgy.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by huntrz

Having said that I don't know which dna has the Renault Nissan followed after merger and if their products would be Japanese or European.

We have not seen many of their products in the market to form a more informed opinion however If Renault Kwid has anything to say, it's the wrong way around unfortunately.

How is it possible to make a small petrol engine that is this noisy and unpleasant should be a case study itself, If you think the 3 Cyl Mpi of VW is bad, this one would ask you to hold its beverage can.

Magnite has a good external body, feels European as you open the door and then everything falls apart on the inside. I think they were trying to go the proper way around with Japanese like powertrain and European body etc but somewhere it all got lost in translation.

[vipul_singh]

Happened to come across these two videos just yesterday, which I thought help highlight the differences in approach:


Audi V8:

https://youtu.be/r2DWShxuPcU

Key points:
4 chains to drive a DOHC setup, which are known to stretch
8 timing chain guides - all plastic, which broke in this instance
Even inspection of the timing gear is a pain because the timing side faces the rear of the car. Timing gear inspection is an engine out job



A view of the timing gear


Broken timing chain guide



Toyota V8:

https://youtu.be/oaDWBwmtVEE

Key points:
2 timing chains
2 timing chain guides - both aluminium




Now I do understand packaging constraints and differences in specific output, but materials could be selected in a way to ease the maintenance burden on the consumer.

[ashwin489]

Originally Posted by Small Bot

Quick OT call out: Saying 'Japs' is derogatory and can be considered an ethnic slur. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap

Everyone here is praising Japs for their positive qualities. No one's intent here is malicious. So, this seems like a clear case of virtue signalling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

Going by your same logic, your avatar is cultural appropriation of green people like Shrek.

Yes, I am also bored like you!

[Abhishek.ckt]

I didn't even feel like driving a Honda City 3rd Gen in my hometown (58k on odo, 10 yrs old) after having owned and driven the Vento for 9 years (45k on odo). The only thing that I liked in Honda City was its shock absorber (in city) and it felt nowhere close to Vento in handling, driving dynamics and acceleration. I am pretty confident if you race both the cars from A to B 60 kms apart in a mix of 20 km city setup, 20 km open highways and 20 km in hills, Vento will beat the Honda City by at least 10 kms gap. It's also about how you maintain the machine, abused ones will definitely let you down irrespective of the flag you choose.

[leorcid]

An anecdote, I have a 10-year-old KTM Duke, it still feels like the first time I rode it, no power or performance loss. It's probably due to my strict adherence to the maintenance schedules. Seen a lot of rattling Yamahas and Hondas as old or even less older. With cars, my Korean diesel motor is way smoother than any of its counterparts from Japan or Europe.