[ImmortalZ]

A close friend of mine from Kochi, Kerala, has a 2021 Nexon Petrol. It has run 42K.

He started hearing some noises under the hood and took the car in to the dealership (Luxon Tata, Cheranallur). The car is under extended warranty, so it was a no brainer. Or, so he thought.

This was diagnosed to a belt tensioner and was going to be changed under warranty. However, the dealership called back and told him that his coolant is now milkshake - which happens when oil and coolant mix. This is bad juju, as you can imagine. He was sent an estimate of 55k. Shockingly, the work wouldn't be covered entirely by warranty.

The failure was traced to the oil cooler (which is covered under warranty), but to properly fix this failure, you need to flush everywhere the coolant and oil would go, and replace a ton of parts. The radiator and heater core (the heat exchanger inside the dash) would also need to be replaced. No matter how much flushing you do, the milkshake from hell can't be removed fully from the narrow passages from the radiator or heat exchanger.

I've attached the estimate here. Only the items marked in red are covered in warranty. The excuse is that only these parts are covered under extended warranty. My friend was given no information about what is covered and what isn't when he paid for the extended warranty (Gokulam Tata in Aluva - absolute disgrace of a dealership). He was told it would no different from the factory warranty.

Even so, this would be understandable if the failure point is not covered under warranty. Here, a part that is covered under warranty made this work required. But only the parts covered under extended warranty would be covered? Its not like my friend crashed his car or did something to make the heater core fail. A warrantied Tata OEM part failed and caused this failure. Makes no sense!

To make things even worse, the SA told us that these oil cooler failures are becoming more and more common and Tata has demanded them flush and reuse the radiator for a previous warranty job. It obviously did not work as expected, so the dealership has asked Tata to cover the radiator replacement on warranty for my friend's case.

Now, I don't expect this post to do anything for this case. Even very senior journos have escalated things to Tata for their own family cars and the Tata after sales team does not care.

My friend is not very automotively inclined. He went and bought Tata for his first car due to his love for the Tata brand and mystique. To say he is disappointed would be an understatement. After he completely understood what this failure is and the fix, he now plans to dispose of the car as soon as financially possible.

If you buy Tata, caveat emptor!

[rdhawan15]

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

My friend is not very automotively inclined. He went and bought Tata for his first car due to his love for the Tata brand and mystique. To say he is disappointed would be an understatement. After he completely understood what this failure is and the fix, he now plans to dispose of the car as soon as financially possible.

If you buy Tata, caveat emptor!

That is a sad experience. I can only hope that the Tata Motors folks can address the issue and restore the confidence of the customer.

One dissatisfied customer will eventually take away 10 sales.

I hope TML can work more closely with the customer to address the issue to an amicable solution.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

The failure was traced to the oil cooler (which is covered under warranty), but to properly fix this failure, you need to flush everywhere the coolant and oil would go, and replace a ton of parts. The radiator and heater core (the heat exchanger inside the dash) would also need to be replaced. No matter how much flushing you do, the milkshake from hell can't be removed fully from the narrow passages from the radiator or heat exchanger.

I don't believe that is true, that a flush can't get all the gunk out. You need to do multiple coolant flushes. Thats probably a job the authorized service center does not want to do as it can take up a lot of time.

I'm also not sure if there is a connection between the oil cooler and coolant. These are usually independent circuits.

I feel like there are too many parts suggested for replacement before a proper diagnosis is done.

Might be better to cough up some losses and find a competent independent garage to sort out the issue.

[ImmortalZ]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

I'm also not sure if there is a connection between the oil cooler and coolant. These are usually independent circuits.

The oil cooler on this engine is a oil-coolant sandwich plate, not a front mounted heat exchanger. The diagnosis is accurate.

The parts list is needs to contain everywhere the oil goes and everywhere the coolant goes. I'm not familiar with the engine to know whether this is exhaustive enough.

[100BHP]

This is a real bad judgement by TATA to treat the customer like this !
An OEM parts failure shall be covered under warranty !

Also, warranty matters come later - this is the brand building at the poorest level - how can TATA expects the readers to go ahead with any TATA vehicle purchase if TATA cannot stand up & accepts the OEM part failure .

Also it looks like a design flaw - interconnection of oil & coolant circuit !!

[Viraat13]

Originally Posted by 100BHP

This is a real bad judgement by TATA to treat the customer like this !
...
Also it looks like a design flaw - interconnection of oil & coolant circuit !!

While I love to see people shidd on Tata for their crappy products, I would refrain from making remarks like this if you haven't taken a close look under the hood of any car in the past 10-15 years.

Even your S Cross has an oil cooler body, which could fail. That doesn't make an established practice a design flaw. Think of it as a water cooled solution for carrying away heat, in this case, from the engine oil.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by 100BHP

Also it looks like a design flaw - interconnection of oil & coolant circuit !!

Almost all modern cars have it. It is called as oil cooler where the engine oil gets cooled by the coolant. The 1.3MJD was notorious for the oil cooler failure which caused the oil and coolant to mix and become milkshake.

Key to avoid this is to keep the coolant in good condition by changing it in adherence to manufacturer recommended change interval

[svsantosh]

Hi Nexon Owner KL-75-B-1570,

So TATA is replacing the following under warranty.

---PARTS---
Radiator
Oil Cooler (main culprit, per se)
Thermostat assy
Water Pump

***LABOR***
Radiator replacement
Coolant tank replacement (wonder why part is not free, but the labor is!)
Water Pump replacement
Thermostat replacement

And you are paying for these

---PAID---
Oil, filter, coolant, Hoses, consumables - (never covered anywhere in the world in warranty or insurance)
Coolant tank (this can be argued, it can be cleaned with hot water and soda and reused, or convince them for warranty)

---Questionable Area---
Heater coil assy + Labor - this can be flushed with radiator flush if done multiple times. See if you can live with that idea of a cleaned out heater coil.

Now let me open a can of worms.

The noise you probably heard was from the valves slapping or ticking or a piston slap due to bad lube. How many kms was the car driven like this? Find the root cause first. Just dont clean and refit what the eye sees. Did someone open and check where the oil cooler gave way for the water and oil to mix? Was the head gasket ok? Was a compression test done to rule out engine issue?

If water travelled through the engine, the timing chain, gears are all probably damaged too!! Top end damage means the camshaft and the valves, etc etc are having increased tolerances now. And wait, the bottom end, crankshaft, main bearings are also to be assumed ran on water/oil mix now and hence damaged.

Basically, you either fight for a full engine/HVAC replacement or a heavily discounted repair job (or last option no one wants - court/case/delays).

First get the engine checked before you start fighting over pennies (this part and that labor talk...). I think someone is running away from a bigger culpability.

PS - Hope your case is water tight, No LPG/CNG kit I suppose? And no history of major front Accidents? Hope no services done in road side garages too?

[ImmortalZ]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

The noise you probably heard was from the valves slapping or ticking or a piston slap due to bad lube. How many kms was the car driven like this? Find the root cause first. Just dont clean and refit what the eye sees. Did someone open and check where the oil cooler gave way for the water and oil to mix? Was the head gasket ok? Was a compression test done to rule out engine issue?

This is a problem because the staff at the dealership are clueless about terms like compression test, leakdown test, boroscope and so on. He had isolated the noise to the belt tensioner already when he took the car to the dealership. There is no information on how long the oil has been compromised. He is a very sedate driver and any power loss wouldn't be detectable to him.

Yes, the fault has been isolated to the oil cooler.

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Hope no services done in road side garages too?

Serviced only in TATA. No history of accidents, absolutely no modifications - not even a sticker.

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Oil, filter, coolant, Hoses, consumables - (never covered anywhere in the world in warranty or insurance)

I should add this here.

My BMW under warranty has had the following replaced under both standard and extended, over the last 55K KM from 2021:

1) Water pump, coolant tank, associated pipes, crank pully bolt (and whatever else bits and pieces that job required, including a full coolant flush)
2) Rear right damper
3) Both rear dampers
4) Front lower control arms

Never have I paid a single rupee for consumables, alignment, labour or anything else. Free pickup, drop, wash, treated like a King.

[kaushikduttajsr]

I recently faced an overheating issue in my 6yr old Ford Freestyle. Ford was kind enough to sell me warranty upto 8 yrs after my 5 yr warranty expired last year, after Ford left India.

They diagnosed it to a faulty engine cooling system and replaced the radiator, condenser, hoses et all. What was I charged? Coolant flush, coolant refill worth INR 5000.

I won't go and preach what Tata should do it shouldn't do. But as a customer, I know my next car will be a Ford if they ever come back. Look at the ford ownership threads and 9/10 customers would say the same. I will let Tata leadership take a call as I'm certain their social media teams refer team-bhp.com. Hope OP is able to get parts covered under warranty and peace of mind he trusted Tata with.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

The oil cooler on this engine is a oil-coolant sandwich plate, not a front mounted heat exchanger. The diagnosis is accurate.

Interesting.

Sounds like part, premature material failure. The screw up here is unless TATA have improved the quality of the part, you'll (or your friend) run into this issue again.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

My BMW... ...treated like a King.

Just like a BMW Owner cannot expect to be treated like a TATA owner, a TATA owner cannot expect to be treated like a BMW owner

Their price points and SLA are very different, the cost of 'Experience' is factored into the economics of Luxury products and their pricing. A non luxury example, back in 2004 when I was in IBM, a 'contracted' 4-hour-downtime service warranty from IBM Server division included the costs of business class last minute flights, open visa for that country for 2 engineers 365 days a year, hand carry of the parts, hotel/taxis, 70% stocking levels of all critical parts - meaning out of 10 signed contracts there should be 7 parts in the BIN, 100% of the BOM of the server.

For the same IBM example, a desktop or thinkpad home owner was factored at 15 out of 100 owners inventory ratio, after all he is one owner and he has the standard warranty only.

Just a small example I thought of sharing.

[ImmortalZ]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Just like a BMW Owner cannot expect to be treated like a TATA owner, a TATA owner cannot expect to be treated like a BMW owner

I was only pointing out that it is not an impossibility for warranties being actually comprehensive. The two year factory warranty on the Bimmer is unlimited kilometers.

Lets cut all the fluff. You don't have to pick up and drop my car for free. Don't wash it either. I don't want the coffee when I visit. Just use quality parts? The oil cooler of this design is standard on many Honda petrol motors. This sort of failure is unheard of in that space.

And this logic of making the customer pay any number of rupees higher than zero for a failure of a warrantied part on a car that is not even 4 years old? How shameless and predatory is that? Do I have to buy a 1cr car for the manufacturer to have faith in their product?

I was talking to a journalist friend of mine, while discussing the possibility of crank/rod bearing damage, I said "He's screwed, isn't he?". My friend's response? "He was screwed the moment he bought a Tata. He should've known then itself."

[Sridhar K]

My friend's Altroz DCA broke down on the exact same issue i.e. coolant and oil mixing. TML addressed the issue under warranty via several escalations to TaMo through her husband who works in another Tata group company. She had 2 other incidents when the vehicle broke down and parts replaced under warranty.

[abhatt]

Such posts keep on increasing my trust deficit with Tata. My friends horror stories with Indigo come haunting back.

Hence their cars are always in my strongly considering list.