[RahulNagaraj]

Thanks to Mukul for sending this in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP share page!

Hello Team-BHP,

I am writing this to inform you & seek advice from you guys about Hyundai's claims.

1. I am driving a Verna 1.5 Turbo DCT & when I accelerate my vehicle and under spirited driving, my vehicle overheats suddenly and then in under 10-15 seconds, it returns to normal temperature.
   
2. This issue was also reported on the Team-BHP forum by Blackbandit - attaching a copy below.
   
3. When contacting my Hyundai dealership they told me that it is your fault that you are using 100% throttle hence the car overheats.
   
4. I am attaching a mail from Hyundai below.

I want to ask that if Hyundai is making 1.5 turbo engines and taking on the performance segment in India - then why are they claiming a user shouldn't use full throttle, else the car will overheat and stop functioning?

I want any advice on this, please.

[GTO]

On a 158-BHP 1.5L Turbo-Petrol that is marketed for performance and used in their performance variants? This is the most RIDICULOUS response I have ever seen from a car manufacturer. I frequently redline all my cars, and also redline about 40 media test-drive cars a year, and have NEVER seen them overheating because of hard driving.

Better Hyundai fixes the problem / engine / cooling system, or detunes the engine.

Also, issue an advisory to Creta N-Line owners that their performance crossover shouldn't be driven with 100% of the throttle a lot.

Hyundai, pull your socks up and FIX IT. Accept that it is a problem first.

[IshaanIan]

Seems like Hyundai is yet to build a proper petrol motor; I thought it was just their old NA engines that were weak but now it looks like even their new DI Turbo mills aren’t upto the task. I redline my 2.5lac kms done F10D WagonR on a daily basis infact it doesn’t even have a revlimiter or an rpm gauge so I probably breach the redline considering I need to wring its neck out to overtake vehicles sometimes also considering it’s tall boy stance and floppy chassis, I even rev match to downshift in order to control the weight balance yet it has never given any issues. Considering what Hyundai is saying, the redline needs to be revised on these turbo petrol Vernas since I always thought that the redline indicated the safe upper rpm limit but I guess on a Hyundai it means ‘don’t go there’ atleast it is a turbo petrol so I suppose one can just ride the torque wave in the mid-range and be satisfied with just that much.

[careind]

I am guessing it is the service center that is selling this drivel and not Hyundai per se. But definitely not without the taciturn nod from Hyundai.
If this becomes a big issue, then HML would step in and clarify or make a gesture to help.

Hyundai is selling a car, that too a high performance one, and as long as the product is used within the framework of guideline usage , it should work as expected.

I would ask the OP to reply back to the service head who sent that mail to quote the relevant sections in the user manual that says throttle should not be depressed to 100%.
He could also try the same manoeuvre with a TD vehicle in the presence of ASC guys, to make it clear whether it is a generic product issue or an issue specific to his vehicle.

[MyLife_MyCar]

Few questions:

1. How were Hyundai able to find out during “inspection” that throttle was pressed from 0-100% frequently and suddenly? Is there any tool to detect this? Or is this something they deduced from the interactions they have had with the OP?
2. Secondly, how frequently is OP engaging in spirited driving?
3. If OP does spirited driving often and only now facing this issue, can it be attributed to the high heat that we are facing this summer?

Finally, slightly unrelated comment - where is OP doing this spirited driving? I would be really apprehensive flooring pedal to 100% (if that’s what he is really doing). I don’t think I’ll be able to control the car with so much power available on the tap even on the highways/expressways.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by careind

I am guessing it is the service center that is selling this drivel and not Hyundai per se. But definitely not without the taciturn nod from Hyundai.

You are correct, it is indeed the dealership, but the "service head" of Berkeley Hyundai - Mr. Ashok Sharma - no less. Service head giving such an explanation?

Updating the thread title.

Here are BHPian BlackBandit's posts on the same issue:

Originally Posted by blackbandit

I reported the overheating issue that I faced a few weeks back. They found no issues with the car but apparently the hose connecting to the coolant reservoir is troublesome and they have placed an order for the part to replace the same under warranty.

Another issue I have been facing since is a while is slight vibrations when braking in high speeds. They told me they would replace the disc and pads under warranty. But again they did not have parts to service the same. I was asked to keep the car for a day because they wanted to check with other service centres for the parts. But today I got a call and they told it's not available anywhere and they would place an order for it and I was asked to take the car back.

I don't understand why Hyundai service centres don't have parts like these in stock. I am in Bangalore and not some tier 2 or tier 3 city. Comparing my experience with ford they had parts well stocked all the time and replacements were always a breeze. In 6+ years of ownership Ive never faced an issue where I had to take my car and return back to the service centre for a repair. And this is even after their exit. Last December I got the steering rack of my Figo replaced within a day and they had the part in stock with them.

Then:

Originally Posted by blackbandit

Coolant reservoir Hose replacement is apparently being done on all cars due to a potential bulging issue. Got mine replaced today along with the brake discs and pads.

Originally Posted by blackbandit

I don’t have the exact details. But I assume there is a QC related issue and there’s an official recall. Because on enquiring about the hose replacement that was done on my car with the SA, he mentioned it’s being changed on all cars that come for service irrespective of any issue reported. You can probably check with your service advisor and enquire about the same.

[Torque123]

The service centre response is indeed ridiculous. If Hyundai has issued an internal circular to all service centres on the replacement of the coolant reservoir hose for all of their 1.5 TGDI cars then there can be a couple of scenarios as listed below.

1. This particular service centre is not adhering to Hyundai’s directive.
2. The coolant reservoir hose was replaced in the past (in this particular instance) & the issue still persists which kind of confirms that Hyundai still does not have a clue on fixing the root cause of this issue.
3. This whole coolant reservoir hose replacement solution has not come from Hyundai at all & was probably carried out by the service centre on their own in Blackbandit’s case (which may or may not be a permanent fix).
4. Any current Verna owners who got their cars serviced recently should be able to see this replacement done by referring to the service invoice & that should confirm if Hyundai has instructed its service centres to carry out this work as a mandate or not.

[Rocketscience]

Originally Posted by RahulNagaraj

Thanks to Mukul for sending this in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP share page!

This is bothersome, and the response is even more ridiculous, just yesterday I had declared this engine as a true all rounder on Verna's thread and a spiritual successor to the erstwhile 1.6 CRDi, something I was gladly looking forward to replace my current car with, how do I take my words back?

Also, in one of my earlier posts in comparison with 1.6 CRDi, this one had a weaker bottom end and mid range till around 3500-4000 rpm and this is exactly when the CRDi engine starts to loose its steam and this is exactly when this starts developing significantly more power than that, so in true petrol fashion and to make true use of that 158 bhp, a great deal of power lies above 4000 rpm and that feeling special was also in that range, so if using it there for a longer time results in overheating then what is the point?

[FAIAAA]

Sad to hear this. Thanks for sharing.

Question to OP - Is this when driving in D mode or in manual mode? While I agree, it shouldn't matter at all and a high performance engine should be used to high RPMs etc., I have done a lot of pedal to metal drives over an extended period / cross country road trips in summer heat and haven't faced any problem ( own 1.5 turbo SX DCT). I drive in D mode ( both in Normal and Sport) and use manual mode only in bumper to bumper traffic.

Checking to ascertain any peculiar nature of the engine in general or a cause of faulty components in these specific cases?

[GS2323]

The best part of the mail from the service head is - One should not have any apprehensions regarding product quality when one is facing product quality issues.

Maybe he should have also mentioned how much of those 160-odd hp should one use, it will be like "This engine produces this much hp but you can use only this much because the whole of it is available once a month only"

Maybe he should also tell the customer how many times he can rev the engine past 5k in a month & while he is at it, he can also tell at what rate should one should press the A-pedal in cm/sec so as not to cause sudden spike in rpm

This is the most ridiculous explanation I have seen in a while

[Rohit_Quad]

One of the funniest replies I heard from such SVCs . They must have pulled the logs using a diagnostic tool. Assuming the OP's car is stock, Hyundai themselves saying that the overheating is due to driving the car in its factory scope of operation shows either:*

1. They know that their engine is a one-time wonder and cannot deliver constant peak performance. To achieve the high peak numbers, one can tune the engine to extract every bit of performance out of it, but without an efficient cooling system, repeated delivery of the said peak numbers would not be possible, resulting in overheating. Or
2. There must be a small amount of air trapped in the cooling system, and in this particular instance of full throttle driving, the issue is cropping up when the cooling system needs to perform to its maximum capacity.*

Solution: First, the DIY route. I would start by checking the cooling system. There are many videos on YouTube on how to check and bleed trapped air from a cooling system. If not, maybe try using a higher-octane fuel—XP95, maybe? In my mind, higher octane should run cooler in a turbocharged application. If both don't show any difference, then following up with the manufacturer would be the only option. But now that the weather is cooling down, the issue might even go away.*Keep us posted.

[TheHelix0202]

First the brakes, then the DCT, now the engine. I was quite happy with Hyundai for introducing decently quick accessible cars for the masses, but now I think it’s high time they pull up their socks and fix their cars, especially when the reliability of these turbocharged gasoline engines remains to be seen…

[sinharishi]

A 160 hp car that cannot be driven pedal to metal?

My 1.5 TSI oil temperature shoots up when driven constantly at high speed in lower gears, mostly in the hills. I do try to keep it under 110 deg cel but I have never seen coolant temps rising till date. Even when the air intake temps going above 52 degrees cel.

[Clank]

I don't think "Sudden throttle usage" can be associated with overheating of an engine, as during the development phase or certification phase these engines go through rigorous transient cycles and can have a similar or even severe effect.

But as these words are coming from someone responsible at HMIL, I doubt the other aspect of the usage as well. As I understand any modern turbo petrol engines, or let's take it as just any modern engine, they are basically derived from the existing engines by modifying the combustion chamber design (updating the piston bowl design to increase the turbulence or swirl), using low friction and low weight internal components, adding a bigger turbocharger, a high pressure fueling system (GDI in case of turbo petrol) etc.

All these are done to enhance efficiency and power or torque output, whereas it leads to extra fatigue on the existing block or cylinder head design due to the increased peak cylinder pressure and temperature. When clubbed together with hot ambient conditions (45 deg or above) and a high load (operated at peak torque region of the engine), the temperature might shoot up to critical levels. And newer engines come with engine protection strategies at these levels and might warn the user about them or, in some cases, will derate the engine torque to protect it, and it is very normal for a manufacturer to do it. Now about the test conditions in the laboratory for certification or emission tests, it is mostly maintained at 30 deg ambient and 95-100 Kpa pressure. And of course, they test it in different altitudes and hot climates as well, and during these tests the protection strategies are finalized.

Not sure if this is the case with your car. But I agree. Being an end user, in any case, one can't expect something like this.

[dhanushs]

The newer engines need to meet these fancy figures of power and torque, meet emissions norms and also need to be cost effective to design and manufacture. They are able to get away with all this only by some smart calibration logic. If you look closely, you might find loopholes in even big stream OEM's like Mercs and Beemers. So the real question would be, is it affecting your intended functionality?

I'm not saying Hyundai is right here, but the stakes are very high. Turbo Petrols with newer, stringent emission norms are literally and figuratively "HOT" to drive!