Weird swinging movement of Indica

RaviH · 10th August 2008, 10:50

All,

Need your advice and guidance to solve a weird problem with my Indica - crying for help because my empty pockets don't allow me to divorce it yet!

Facts:
* Indica V2 DLX 2004 model. Taken care like a baby. I am the only driver of the car in its life so far.
* Done 35000 kms.
* Tubeless tyres changed at 30000 kms on stock steel rims.

This car has some kind of weird left-right-left-right swinging movement as if one tyre has a bulge on it. It can be experienced clearly at around 15 km speed. It manifests clearly even when I slow down to stop in a signal or take a turn. There is some vibration at 60kms speed - not sure whether it is related problem. Tried wheel balancing several times for vibration - no use. Wheel alignment was also done in last service (15 days back) - no luck. As usual, Tata service station did not help beyond balancing and alignment.

Need your advice about this problem:

* Does it look like rim/tyre runout problem or suspension? How to confirm that?
* Any pointers to a local service station (I am from Pune, Maharashtra) experienced in solving this problem will be great help.

Thank you very much for the help.

dinar · 10th August 2008, 19:15

check the ball joints and the knuckle.

rkbharat · 10th August 2008, 19:20

First check the tyres carefully fore any uneven shapes. Also check the air pressure and any rim bends

also I suggest get the wheel aligned and camber adjustment checked at some good shop outside.

Get the car lifted on ramp and see if there is any play in ball joint.

and last, also check the tied rod for any bent.

I don't think Steering joint need to checked, still no harm in checking it.

scorpian · 10th August 2008, 19:27

Hi,
Had a similar problem in my zen,tried everything to get rid of the swinging,mine was more of a up and down movement which M>A>S>S could not rectify they blamed it on the tyres,so i had the the bridgestone engineer examine the tyre,he stood firm on the ground that the tyres were not to blame,however i thought he was just trying to avoid the replacement under warranty hence i forced him for a replacement,after paying some difference i upgraded front tyres to tubeless(turanza),yet my problem remained unresolved finally i got fedup and complained to maruti regional head,they replaced my left side driveshaft and then the car was ok...
All this took me a period of nearly 20days as now one could rectify it accurately and kept on pushing the buck on the other.....

jyobeb · 10th August 2008, 19:30

Is it a sideways movement at slow speeds only and more pronounced in the rear?
If the answers to all my questions are yes, then the only remedy is to change your rear tyres.

Jr Godzilla · 10th August 2008, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyobeb

Is it a sideways movement at slow speeds only and more pronounced in the rear?
If the answers to all my questions are yes, then the only remedy is to change your rear tyres.

spot on.

also this problem will surface when you are at higher speeds
(in my case at 90+kmh the steering would start vibrating and the entire car would shiver if driven above 90. There was no sign of this problem between 10 to 90kmph. Tyre lost shape.

RaviH · 10th August 2008, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyobeb

Is it a sideways movement at slow speeds only and more pronounced in the rear?
If the answers to all my questions are yes, then the only remedy is to change your rear tyres.

It feels like a swing - slight swinging movement like driving on a road with small potholes of few millimeter depth alternatively on left and right side. Unfortunately it is not noticeable enough for the mechanics to feel it - but I being very attentive to slightest details get irritated with this swing. I have felt this in front seat only - but I think the whole car swings like that. Got the tyres checked from the shop where I had bought new tyres 5000 kms back - he denied any problem with tyres.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jr Godzilla

spot on.
also this problem will surface when you are at higher speeds

I experience this swinging only at low speed of around 15 kmph. Then some vibration at slightly above 60 kmph. I usually drive within city now a days - never get a chance to exceed 70-80 kmph (that itself is great achievement in Pune's chaotic traffic). Therefore I don't know even if there is possibility of severe vibration at higher speed.

jyobeb · 11th August 2008, 01:03

To be honest, I have seen this problem on quite a few Indicas and on Ambassadors. The worn out rear tyres seem to totally upset the rear suspension and create an impression of the car shaking its ***. Sorry for the crude comparison, but that is exactly what it feels like.

iraghava · 11th August 2008, 02:22

Have the brake discs ever been faced during the life of the car? I ask this question because you only face this problem when you slow down.

Jr Godzilla · 11th August 2008, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyobeb

To be honest, I have seen this problem on quite a few Indicas and on Ambassadors. The worn out rear tyres seem to totally upset the rear suspension and create an impression of the car shaking its ***. Sorry for the crude comparison, but that is exactly what it feels like.

the feeling is as u said. I once thought has the rear suspension come off or what.
cheers:

greenhorn · 11th August 2008, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by iraghava

Have the brake discs ever been faced during the life of the car?

what do you mean by disks being faced

tsk1979 · 11th August 2008, 13:26

My indica had the same problem and it started fairly early.
Concorde motors as usual did not offer any solution, and they have this standard response. Balance and alignment.
Then a mechanic at Vijay wheel alignment caught the problem.
Bent steel belts in the ZVTS radial. When I got tires changed the problem went away.

abhik · 11th August 2008, 13:39

Get the suspension arms checked aswell as i faced similar problems on my Ikon and on inspection it turned out to be worn out suspension arms.

RaviH · 13th August 2008, 13:40

My problems don't seem to end. Went for tyre checkup and that guy noticed that driver side of car is down by 1-2 inches compared to other side. He certified tyres are fine. One more trip to TASC yesterday - that guy says suspension etc. are all fine. Theoretically accoring to him this problem should not happen. Effort to demonstrate it to him failed miserably because there are no roads left around the TASC (in whole of Pune also) after non-stop rains for last few days. Any vehicle will shake in all directions in this moonscape rescembling roads. Later this week I will try another TASC or a 3rd party service station like Bosch Car Service. Will post a message about the actual reason behind it if I get a solution for this problem.

Thanks a lot for responses and suggestions so far. I love you!

RaviH · 18th August 2008, 17:24

Huh ... final finding is - stock wheel rims were the problem. They had several mm of runout (radial as well as lateral). Changed the rims - got Neo alloys. That irritating swing is gone. Now I hear some roaring sound when I cross 50 kmph. I am experiencing alloys for the first time - dunno whether it is expected behavior OR some bearing/break problem. Should I go back to a mechanic again? Please suggest. [Sorry if this question is OT here - but thought I ask it here instead of jumping to another thread].

10th August 2008, 10:50	#1
RaviH Newbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 16 Thanked: 0 Times	Weird swinging movement of Indica All, Need your advice and guidance to solve a weird problem with my Indica - crying for help because my empty pockets don't allow me to divorce it yet! Facts: * Indica V2 DLX 2004 model. Taken care like a baby. I am the only driver of the car in its life so far. * Done 35000 kms. * Tubeless tyres changed at 30000 kms on stock steel rims. This car has some kind of weird left-right-left-right swinging movement as if one tyre has a bulge on it. It can be experienced clearly at around 15 km speed. It manifests clearly even when I slow down to stop in a signal or take a turn. There is some vibration at 60kms speed - not sure whether it is related problem. Tried wheel balancing several times for vibration - no use. Wheel alignment was also done in last service (15 days back) - no luck. As usual, Tata service station did not help beyond balancing and alignment. Need your advice about this problem: * Does it look like rim/tyre runout problem or suspension? How to confirm that? * Any pointers to a local service station (I am from Pune, Maharashtra) experienced in solving this problem will be great help. Thank you very much for the help.
	() Thanks

10th August 2008, 19:15	#2
dinar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 1,066 Thanked: 57 Times	check the ball joints and the knuckle.
	() Thanks

10th August 2008, 19:20	#3
rkbharat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Gurgaon/New Delhi Posts: 1,603 Thanked: 724 Times View My Garage	First check the tyres carefully fore any uneven shapes. Also check the air pressure and any rim bends also I suggest get the wheel aligned and camber adjustment checked at some good shop outside. Get the car lifted on ramp and see if there is any play in ball joint. and last, also check the tied rod for any bent. I don't think Steering joint need to checked, still no harm in checking it.
	() Thanks

10th August 2008, 19:27	#4
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 860 Thanked: 1,310 Times View My Garage	Hi, Had a similar problem in my zen,tried everything to get rid of the swinging,mine was more of a up and down movement which M>A>S>S could not rectify they blamed it on the tyres,so i had the the bridgestone engineer examine the tyre,he stood firm on the ground that the tyres were not to blame,however i thought he was just trying to avoid the replacement under warranty hence i forced him for a replacement,after paying some difference i upgraded front tyres to tubeless(turanza),yet my problem remained unresolved finally i got fedup and complained to maruti regional head,they replaced my left side driveshaft and then the car was ok... All this took me a period of nearly 20days as now one could rectify it accurately and kept on pushing the buck on the other.....
	() Thanks

10th August 2008, 19:30	#5
jyobeb Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Madurai Posts: 1,009 Thanked: 705 Times	Is it a sideways movement at slow speeds only and more pronounced in the rear? If the answers to all my questions are yes, then the only remedy is to change your rear tyres.
	() Thanks

11th August 2008, 01:03	#8
jyobeb Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Madurai Posts: 1,009 Thanked: 705 Times	To be honest, I have seen this problem on quite a few Indicas and on Ambassadors. The worn out rear tyres seem to totally upset the rear suspension and create an impression of the car shaking its ***. Sorry for the crude comparison, but that is exactly what it feels like.
	() Thanks

11th August 2008, 02:22	#9
iraghava Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bhaiyyaland Posts: 7,993 Thanked: 281 Times View My Garage	Have the brake discs ever been faced during the life of the car? I ask this question because you only face this problem when you slow down.
	() Thanks

11th August 2008, 13:26	#12
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,688 Thanked: 23,489 Times View My Garage	My indica had the same problem and it started fairly early. Concorde motors as usual did not offer any solution, and they have this standard response. Balance and alignment. Then a mechanic at Vijay wheel alignment caught the problem. Bent steel belts in the ZVTS radial. When I got tires changed the problem went away.
	() Thanks

11th August 2008, 13:39	#13
abhik BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 847 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	Get the suspension arms checked aswell as i faced similar problems on my Ikon and on inspection it turned out to be worn out suspension arms.
	() Thanks

13th August 2008, 13:40	#14
RaviH Newbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 16 Thanked: 0 Times	My problems don't seem to end. Went for tyre checkup and that guy noticed that driver side of car is down by 1-2 inches compared to other side. He certified tyres are fine. One more trip to TASC yesterday - that guy says suspension etc. are all fine. Theoretically accoring to him this problem should not happen. Effort to demonstrate it to him failed miserably because there are no roads left around the TASC (in whole of Pune also) after non-stop rains for last few days. Any vehicle will shake in all directions in this moonscape rescembling roads. Later this week I will try another TASC or a 3rd party service station like Bosch Car Service. Will post a message about the actual reason behind it if I get a solution for this problem. Thanks a lot for responses and suggestions so far. I love you!
	() Thanks

18th August 2008, 17:24	#15
RaviH Newbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 16 Thanked: 0 Times	Huh ... final finding is - stock wheel rims were the problem. They had several mm of runout (radial as well as lateral). Changed the rims - got Neo alloys. That irritating swing is gone. Now I hear some roaring sound when I cross 50 kmph. I am experiencing alloys for the first time - dunno whether it is expected behavior OR some bearing/break problem. Should I go back to a mechanic again? Please suggest. [Sorry if this question is OT here - but thought I ask it here instead of jumping to another thread].
	() Thanks