palio 1.2: starter not working properly...

amitverma · 29th March 2005, 22:19

it seems that i cant get out of trouble this week...
at a traffic light, when i switched off the engine and tried to turn it back on again...surprise...no self... :(
well it had happened a few dozen times before and each time the culprit came out to be the Nippon Car security system installed in the car...
it somehow disabled the self and nothing seemed to happen on tryiong to start my palio.

what actually happened was that after turning on the battery when i went on to start the engine the battery lights on the dashboard went out and nothing and the self refused to strike. the security system was replaced + wire was replaced. problem solved!

yesterday same thing happened but with a little difference....
this time around when i tried to start the engine the battery lights didn't go out and there was a slight whistle from the engine like it wanted to start but couldn't...after 2-3 repeated attempts it did start but the thing is quite horrifying...
can you technical ppl out there, tell me what the hell is wrong with the car?

the nippon engineer told me that there is some carbon stuck on the self, and that is causing this problem. but the car is just 7-8 months and 3400 km old. i am quite scared...please help!!!

PS: there is an immobiliser in the engine of the palio if i am correct, and the security lock also has one...is it clashing?

veyron1 · 29th March 2005, 22:36

hi amit,
the engine immobilizers from the security on the will not clash with the one on the engine, as the security is probably wired to the existing one along with the ignition cut off that the system comes with.
as for the starting trouble, tell the service guys to check the starter motor solenoid, and the relay; any fault in either fo these will result in erratic starter behaviour. also, the "whistling" sound that you are referring to might be that of the coil rotating without actuating the bendix- so get that chcked too. and also, the carbon getting accumulated in the self seems unlikely as your car is just 3400 kms run, but even then, these are not the symptoms:
the excess carbon would result in a "barking" noise, i.e, the starter will rotate, but it will take load, and will crank slower than usual.
anyways, since your car is under warranty, get the starter motor serviced, while checking the above mentioned points.
and if all else fail, even after repeated checks and afore mentioned ponters, get the starter motor replaced under warranty. (that is, if the fiat dudes will replace it...

)

topend_hooligan · 29th March 2005, 22:36

Its called the starter motor. Plz refrain from using 'roadside mech' terminology.
Peace.

veyron1 · 29th March 2005, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by topend_hooligan

Its called the starter motor. Plz refrain from using 'roadside mech' terminology.
Peace.

huh

??? please elaborate- i didn't quite follow you..

amitverma · 29th March 2005, 23:03

so how much time-consuming is it?

autopsyche · 30th March 2005, 01:18

the whistling sound you mention is of a failed starter motor (self assembly). It is a kind of slippage where the coil is turning but is not being able to transfer the power forward. Did your car start normally after a couple of tries? did it start fine the next time u tried after driving?

It could be a one off case, sometimes mechanicals seem to be moody! hehe. Just incase it happens again i guess you could get it replaced under warranty since your car is almost brand new.

topend_hooligan · 30th March 2005, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by veyron1

huh

??? please elaborate- i didn't quite follow you..

It was meant for the dude who started the thread. Not for you man

. I absolutely hate it when people use words like 'self' for the starter and 'shockups' for the shock absorbers.

veyron1 · 30th March 2005, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by amitverma

so how much time-consuming is it?

depending upon the nature of the failure, it could take anything from 4-5 hours to 4-5 days; if the service guys go in for a overhaul, then it might take just about a day, but if they go in for replacement, it depends upon the dealer, warranty, and the make of the motor.

amitverma · 1st April 2005, 23:02

hey im back...net was down in my area...
the starter motor was the culprit.
but as usual the fiat guys didn't have the part available. their excuse: its last quarter and its closing time for the account books and no dealer is ready for a counter sale.
so i gotta wait longer...
lets see what happens?
btw, topend_hooligan, i dont have a habit of saying starter each time i refer to my car's ignition switch. "self" is just fine for me and for 99.9% of indians.

GTO · 2nd April 2005, 09:51

Quote:

but as usual the fiat guys didn't have the part available. their excuse: its last quarter and its closing time for the account books and no dealer is ready for a counter sale.

I find it amusing to see what you Fiat boys cope up with. First a part of your car fails. Second, you are ready to pay for it. Butttttttttttttttttt you have to wait?

GTO

iceman91 · 2nd April 2005, 10:03

it is like the fiat owners actually are paying to get themselves into difficult situations and the troubles caused.

Rudra Sen · 2nd April 2005, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by amitverma

but as usual the fiat guys didn't have the part available. their excuse: its last quarter and its closing time for the account books and no dealer is ready for a counter sale.

Can't you Fiat guys find out a good place in Delhi outside these moron dealers? BLR boys have RAC and they seem to be pretty happy.

By the way, your messsage box is full. Clear it it up.

veyron1 · 2nd April 2005, 10:48

hey amit, remember me saying...."if the fiat dudes will replace it....
well, anyways, like i said, it will take time if youre going in for a warranty replacement.
but, if at all those dudes at fiat ask for money citing some reason, go buy a brand new motor from a reputed O.E. spare part shop, and get the work done from your own trusted mechanic!!!

p.s-at least that's what i'd do if i had to put up with this sort of crap from fiat dealers!!
and autopsyche, well, it seems we think alike man!! you practically just offered the same explanation as i did!!

Carbuff · 2nd April 2005, 11:46

How old is the car and how many miles have you clocked. Also check the battery condition with the terminals. Is it sticky always or sometimes. If sometimes the problem may be with the solenoid only and not the motor.

amitverma · 3rd April 2005, 00:34

@GTO: who is ready to pay for it? the car's under warranty and they would have to fix it at any costs!

@iceman91: well its kinda not that. the car is the best in class. and after driving all the santros and zens and wagonRs around folks, it feels good to own a palio...::touchwood::
btw, from what i know you own a baleno which also doesnt carry a brilliant resale value...but still when it came down to giving ur hard-earned penny, u chose what was the best...right?

@Rudra: if u know a trustable place in delhi, i would be very glad to know. i have just finished school here, dont know many places around...btw the inbox is all cleared up...waiting for ur reply. thanks.

@autopsyche: you are absolutely correct on the situation. it gets started after a couple of tries...but still it is annoying...btw since u are in new delhi, do you happen to know any good workshops/tuners around?

@veyron: ofcourse, i wont be buying anything from them. there is a guy at the dealer (supposed to be head), whose gonna get a yelling and thrashing of a lifetime if he refuses to replace it under warranty. any ways. there is still one last "brahmastra", the consumer court warning. hope it works

@carbuff: as i said above the car's done only abt 3400, well now 3600...
thanks i will get that checked too...may be theres no need for a change of the whole unit.

btw the started motor is of the brand : LUCAS. i can definately get it through their head branch at Karol bagh, but is there a kind soul on this forums, who has the information abt the brands of the various "important spare parts" tha palio has. thanks all.

29th March 2005, 22:19	#1
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 426 Thanked: 141 Times	palio 1.2: starter not working properly... it seems that i cant get out of trouble this week... at a traffic light, when i switched off the engine and tried to turn it back on again...surprise...no self... :( well it had happened a few dozen times before and each time the culprit came out to be the Nippon Car security system installed in the car... it somehow disabled the self and nothing seemed to happen on tryiong to start my palio. what actually happened was that after turning on the battery when i went on to start the engine the battery lights on the dashboard went out and nothing and the self refused to strike. the security system was replaced + wire was replaced. problem solved! yesterday same thing happened but with a little difference.... this time around when i tried to start the engine the battery lights didn't go out and there was a slight whistle from the engine like it wanted to start but couldn't...after 2-3 repeated attempts it did start but the thing is quite horrifying... can you technical ppl out there, tell me what the hell is wrong with the car? the nippon engineer told me that there is some carbon stuck on the self, and that is causing this problem. but the car is just 7-8 months and 3400 km old. i am quite scared...please help!!! PS: there is an immobiliser in the engine of the palio if i am correct, and the security lock also has one...is it clashing?
	() Thanks

29th March 2005, 22:36	#2
veyron1 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,424 Thanked: 52 Times View My Garage	hi amit, the engine immobilizers from the security on the will not clash with the one on the engine, as the security is probably wired to the existing one along with the ignition cut off that the system comes with. as for the starting trouble, tell the service guys to check the starter motor solenoid, and the relay; any fault in either fo these will result in erratic starter behaviour. also, the "whistling" sound that you are referring to might be that of the coil rotating without actuating the bendix- so get that chcked too. and also, the carbon getting accumulated in the self seems unlikely as your car is just 3400 kms run, but even then, these are not the symptoms: the excess carbon would result in a "barking" noise, i.e, the starter will rotate, but it will take load, and will crank slower than usual. anyways, since your car is under warranty, get the starter motor serviced, while checking the above mentioned points. and if all else fail, even after repeated checks and afore mentioned ponters, get the starter motor replaced under warranty. (that is, if the fiat dudes will replace it... )
	() Thanks

29th March 2005, 22:36	#3
topend_hooligan BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Thane Posts: 65 Thanked: 2 Times	Its called the starter motor. Plz refrain from using 'roadside mech' terminology. Peace.
	() Thanks

29th March 2005, 23:03	#5
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 426 Thanked: 141 Times	so how much time-consuming is it?
	() Thanks

30th March 2005, 01:18	#6
autopsyche Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi, Indi Posts: 1,519 Thanked: 33 Times View My Garage	the whistling sound you mention is of a failed starter motor (self assembly). It is a kind of slippage where the coil is turning but is not being able to transfer the power forward. Did your car start normally after a couple of tries? did it start fine the next time u tried after driving? It could be a one off case, sometimes mechanicals seem to be moody! hehe. Just incase it happens again i guess you could get it replaced under warranty since your car is almost brand new.
	() Thanks

1st April 2005, 23:02	#9
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 426 Thanked: 141 Times	hey im back...net was down in my area... the starter motor was the culprit. but as usual the fiat guys didn't have the part available. their excuse: its last quarter and its closing time for the account books and no dealer is ready for a counter sale. so i gotta wait longer... lets see what happens? btw, topend_hooligan, i dont have a habit of saying starter each time i refer to my car's ignition switch. "self" is just fine for me and for 99.9% of indians.
	() Thanks

2nd April 2005, 10:03	#11
iceman91 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: melbourne/banga Posts: 1,961 Thanked: 34 Times View My Garage	it is like the fiat owners actually are paying to get themselves into difficult situations and the troubles caused.
	() Thanks

2nd April 2005, 10:48	#13
veyron1 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,424 Thanked: 52 Times View My Garage	hey amit, remember me saying...."if the fiat dudes will replace it.... well, anyways, like i said, it will take time if youre going in for a warranty replacement. but, if at all those dudes at fiat ask for money citing some reason, go buy a brand new motor from a reputed O.E. spare part shop, and get the work done from your own trusted mechanic!!! p.s-at least that's what i'd do if i had to put up with this sort of crap from fiat dealers!! and autopsyche, well, it seems we think alike man!! you practically just offered the same explanation as i did!!
	() Thanks

2nd April 2005, 11:46	#14
Carbuff Newbie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chennai Posts: 13 Thanked: 0 Times	How old is the car and how many miles have you clocked. Also check the battery condition with the terminals. Is it sticky always or sometimes. If sometimes the problem may be with the solenoid only and not the motor.
	() Thanks

3rd April 2005, 00:34	#15
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 426 Thanked: 141 Times	@GTO: who is ready to pay for it? the car's under warranty and they would have to fix it at any costs! @iceman91: well its kinda not that. the car is the best in class. and after driving all the santros and zens and wagonRs around folks, it feels good to own a palio...::touchwood:: btw, from what i know you own a baleno which also doesnt carry a brilliant resale value...but still when it came down to giving ur hard-earned penny, u chose what was the best...right? @Rudra: if u know a trustable place in delhi, i would be very glad to know. i have just finished school here, dont know many places around...btw the inbox is all cleared up...waiting for ur reply. thanks. @autopsyche: you are absolutely correct on the situation. it gets started after a couple of tries...but still it is annoying...btw since u are in new delhi, do you happen to know any good workshops/tuners around? @veyron: ofcourse, i wont be buying anything from them. there is a guy at the dealer (supposed to be head), whose gonna get a yelling and thrashing of a lifetime if he refuses to replace it under warranty. any ways. there is still one last "brahmastra", the consumer court warning. hope it works @carbuff: as i said above the car's done only abt 3400, well now 3600... thanks i will get that checked too...may be theres no need for a change of the whole unit. btw the started motor is of the brand : LUCAS. i can definately get it through their head branch at Karol bagh, but is there a kind soul on this forums, who has the information abt the brands of the various "important spare parts" tha palio has. thanks all.
	() Thanks