Palio 1.6 giving jerks after TB cleaning

sans33 · 4th March 2009, 18:51

My Palio s10 was idling irratic recently.Sometimes while stuck in traffic jams, RPM were going below 400-500,while other time they were shooting to 4000.
I was told,throttle body need cleaning,which I got cleaned at a Bosch service centre.
But just after cleaning,car began to jerk violently and RPM kept shooting upto 6000.They hooked car to examiner and erased some error codes.But with in minutes it was same.
Now they tell me its due to ICS valve,which is not available seperately and I need to buy whole throttle body.
But I'm not convinced.I understand this erratic RPM is due to ics valve,but what are these jerks?These jerks are happening beyond 1500 RPM and they were not present before cleaning.I need to know,if they have damaged/tampered something while cleaning.Please help

planet_rocker · 4th March 2009, 19:14

the TB of the 1.6 has the ICV (Idle Control Valve) fixed to the TB. you cannot open the TB and clean the same like in the 1.2s.

there are couple of threads relating to this problem.

Fiat Forum has a guide to Tb cleaning: Cleaning Your Inlet Control Valve - The FIAT Forum

before you invest on the TB - which in Kolkata costs 13000/- (approx) do check these threads (if you are (not) under warranty):

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ight=palio+RPM (Idling issues in my Palio)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ight=palio+RPM (FIAT Adventure issues)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ight=palio+RPM

Also: do the injector light come on when the problem occurs?

1. did FASS (not bosch) clean the engine bay without covering the ECU (the 1.6 ECU costs 16K in Kokata through the FASS)?

2. Did FASS check the condition of the TDC Sensor / Crank Sensor (costs 1825/- incld taxes in Kolkata @ FASS)?

3. did they (BOSCH) Reset the ECU after TB cleaning?

4. The injectors could be dirty - try using system G with 2 tanks fulls.

5. were present while they were cleaning the TB?

AFAIK - a car will sputter / jerk if there is a problem with the spark plugs / coil pack.

RX135 · 4th March 2009, 19:36

Normally jerks with 1.6 are associated with poor quality fuel or faulty O2 sensor or clog in fuel injector/line. ICS may be the culprit, but I can't speculate since there are multiple factors associated.

mb_jg · 5th March 2009, 00:38

I had a smimilar prob with my 1.2, it would jerk subtly, at times it would feel like the fuel supply was cutting off for a few seconds. However, my mechanic took one test drive, told me it's cause of dirty fuel. He also suggested a very good petrol bunk & after that....voila....the problem has disappeared completely.
Sans33, try filling fuel from another fuel station & hopefully your current issue would be resolved.

sans33 · 5th March 2009, 14:40

Throttle body was cleaned in my presence.They first cleaned it in a bowl with petrol or some other chemical using brush.Later they used a spray can with a pipe.
No scanning or resetting was done.After refitting they asked me to drive and check.Car felt very quick and smooth for a km or two,but as we were about to reach,it started to play tricks again.Mechanic accompanying me offered to drive and gave lot of throttle(clutch depressed),telling me seser need re-learning.At this stage car started to jerk.First I thought he is playing with throttle,but later he told me that car is missing and cleaned and adjusted plugs(which were clean).Another trial,with same problems and he asked me to put it on examiner.There were few error codes,which they erased and drove car again.But both problems started again after a few minutes.
At this stage,they told me actuater has gone bad and its not available with them.They charged me for tb cleaning and scanning and told me to call next day.
They couldn't solve a problem and still charged is other thing,but I'm really concerned about these jerks.They were not present earlier and I'm afraid they have damaged something or other.

Rahulkool · 5th March 2009, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by sans33

Throttle body was cleaned in my presence.They first cleaned it in a bowl with petrol or some other chemical using brush.Later they used a spray can with a pipe.
No scanning or resetting was done.After refitting they asked me to drive and check.Car felt very quick and smooth for a km or two,but as we were about to reach,it started to play tricks again.Mechanic accompanying me offered to drive and gave lot of throttle(clutch depressed),telling me seser need re-learning.At this stage car started to jerk.First I thought he is playing with throttle,but later he told me that car is missing and cleaned and adjusted plugs(which were clean).Another trial,with same problems and he asked me to put it on examiner.There were few error codes,which they erased and drove car again.But both problems started again after a few minutes.
At this stage,they told me actuater has gone bad and its not available with them.They charged me for tb cleaning and scanning and told me to call next day.
They couldn't solve a problem and still charged is other thing,but I'm really concerned about these jerks.They were not present earlier and I'm afraid they have damaged something or other.

check the O2 sensor in your car, i have seen few people with same problem and changing the sensor solved the problem. but rather than buying a new sensor you can exchange the sensor from another car that is if you know someone who owns a 1.6 , i don't think its a big job.

sans33 · 20th March 2009, 19:29

After a re-visit to Bosch and two visits to different fiat dealers,its same.
We exchanged throttle body with other cars twice,changed heat sensor twice,exchanged plugs,wires,ignition coil,but still no clue.
Car,if started after few hours,drives ok till left to idle.After just 30-40 seconds of idling, RPM starts to rise and then its like-4000-1500-4000-1500,all in a second.Car drives well on open road,except in 4th gear.In fourth gear it jerks badly.

gemithomas · 20th March 2009, 20:08

WHy did you still not check the oxygen sensor / lambda sensor?

m-hawk · 20th March 2009, 20:27

So after all my service centre guy s in advising me to avoid a TB Cleaning although my car has done around 1.5lac km s holds true !! They said AGAR GADI MAIN KUCH TAKLEEF NAHI HAI TO CHEDO MAT !!!

delhi2009 · 21st March 2009, 04:52

sans33 - Your username suggests you're in Delhi and there's this oldie fiat dealership in Delhi which helped my friend with a similar issue. They are premnath motors at mandir marg and there's this workshop manager Devraj/Girish - You could contact them and im sure they'll solve the issue in a single visit . They are open monday - fri 9-5 and Sat. till 3pm . Good luck !

.

phamilyman · 21st March 2009, 08:10

Go no further than samyak my friend. PM architect and others to help you with the directions!

4th March 2009, 18:51	#1
sans33 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 82 Thanked: 0 Times	Palio 1.6 giving jerks after TB cleaning My Palio s10 was idling irratic recently.Sometimes while stuck in traffic jams, RPM were going below 400-500,while other time they were shooting to 4000. I was told,throttle body need cleaning,which I got cleaned at a Bosch service centre. But just after cleaning,car began to jerk violently and RPM kept shooting upto 6000.They hooked car to examiner and erased some error codes.But with in minutes it was same. Now they tell me its due to ICS valve,which is not available seperately and I need to buy whole throttle body. But I'm not convinced.I understand this erratic RPM is due to ics valve,but what are these jerks?These jerks are happening beyond 1500 RPM and they were not present before cleaning.I need to know,if they have damaged/tampered something while cleaning.Please help Last edited by sans33 : 4th March 2009 at 18:54.
	() Thanks

4th March 2009, 19:14	#2
planet_rocker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bong-land Posts: 2,323 Thanked: 426 Times	the TB of the 1.6 has the ICV (Idle Control Valve) fixed to the TB. you cannot open the TB and clean the same like in the 1.2s. there are couple of threads relating to this problem. Fiat Forum has a guide to Tb cleaning: Cleaning Your Inlet Control Valve - The FIAT Forum before you invest on the TB - which in Kolkata costs 13000/- (approx) do check these threads (if you are (not) under warranty): http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ight=palio+RPM (Idling issues in my Palio) http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ight=palio+RPM (FIAT Adventure issues) http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ight=palio+RPM Also: do the injector light come on when the problem occurs? 1. did FASS (not bosch) clean the engine bay without covering the ECU (the 1.6 ECU costs 16K in Kokata through the FASS)? 2. Did FASS check the condition of the TDC Sensor / Crank Sensor (costs 1825/- incld taxes in Kolkata @ FASS)? 3. did they (BOSCH) Reset the ECU after TB cleaning? 4. The injectors could be dirty - try using system G with 2 tanks fulls. 5. were present while they were cleaning the TB? AFAIK - a car will sputter / jerk if there is a problem with the spark plugs / coil pack. Last edited by planet_rocker : 4th March 2009 at 19:34.
	() Thanks

4th March 2009, 19:36	#3
RX135 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: pune Posts: 2,106 Thanked: 75 Times	Normally jerks with 1.6 are associated with poor quality fuel or faulty O2 sensor or clog in fuel injector/line. ICS may be the culprit, but I can't speculate since there are multiple factors associated.
	() Thanks

5th March 2009, 00:38	#4
mb_jg BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Pune Posts: 485 Thanked: 124 Times	I had a smimilar prob with my 1.2, it would jerk subtly, at times it would feel like the fuel supply was cutting off for a few seconds. However, my mechanic took one test drive, told me it's cause of dirty fuel. He also suggested a very good petrol bunk & after that....voila....the problem has disappeared completely. Sans33, try filling fuel from another fuel station & hopefully your current issue would be resolved.
	() Thanks

5th March 2009, 14:40	#5
sans33 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 82 Thanked: 0 Times	Throttle body was cleaned in my presence.They first cleaned it in a bowl with petrol or some other chemical using brush.Later they used a spray can with a pipe. No scanning or resetting was done.After refitting they asked me to drive and check.Car felt very quick and smooth for a km or two,but as we were about to reach,it started to play tricks again.Mechanic accompanying me offered to drive and gave lot of throttle(clutch depressed),telling me seser need re-learning.At this stage car started to jerk.First I thought he is playing with throttle,but later he told me that car is missing and cleaned and adjusted plugs(which were clean).Another trial,with same problems and he asked me to put it on examiner.There were few error codes,which they erased and drove car again.But both problems started again after a few minutes. At this stage,they told me actuater has gone bad and its not available with them.They charged me for tb cleaning and scanning and told me to call next day. They couldn't solve a problem and still charged is other thing,but I'm really concerned about these jerks.They were not present earlier and I'm afraid they have damaged something or other.
	() Thanks

20th March 2009, 19:29	#7
sans33 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 82 Thanked: 0 Times	3 weeks,3 workshops,but still no solution After a re-visit to Bosch and two visits to different fiat dealers,its same. We exchanged throttle body with other cars twice,changed heat sensor twice,exchanged plugs,wires,ignition coil,but still no clue. Car,if started after few hours,drives ok till left to idle.After just 30-40 seconds of idling, RPM starts to rise and then its like-4000-1500-4000-1500,all in a second.Car drives well on open road,except in 4th gear.In fourth gear it jerks badly. Last edited by sans33 : 20th March 2009 at 19:33.
	() Thanks

20th March 2009, 20:08	#8
gemithomas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,366 Thanked: 143 Times View My Garage	WHy did you still not check the oxygen sensor / lambda sensor?
	() Thanks

20th March 2009, 20:27	#9
m-hawk BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: mumbai Posts: 218 Thanked: 9 Times	So after all my service centre guy s in advising me to avoid a TB Cleaning although my car has done around 1.5lac km s holds true !! They said AGAR GADI MAIN KUCH TAKLEEF NAHI HAI TO CHEDO MAT !!!
	() Thanks

21st March 2009, 04:52	#10
delhi2009 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: New Delhi Posts: 114 Thanked: 24 Times	sans33 - Your username suggests you're in Delhi and there's this oldie fiat dealership in Delhi which helped my friend with a similar issue. They are premnath motors at mandir marg and there's this workshop manager Devraj/Girish - You could contact them and im sure they'll solve the issue in a single visit . They are open monday - fri 9-5 and Sat. till 3pm . Good luck ! .
	() Thanks

21st March 2009, 08:10	#11
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	Go no further than samyak my friend. PM architect and others to help you with the directions!
	() Thanks