grinding when first gear engaged

cheatingdeath · 10th May 2005, 22:24

guyz... ihave this query

whenever i downshift ... from may be 2nd to 1st in my accent
i experience grinding .. well this does not happen alwayz if i let the car to almost stop to a stand still it does not appear.. so it requires a lot of patience....

but this noise doesnt appear when i double clutch the car while down shifting using toe heel braking ...
that means whenever i blip the throttle the speed of the intermidiate shaft and the transmission has the same speed ... so it engages without any noise .. but its not alwayz possible to blip and downshift ...is there somethng wrong with the synchro mesh or even the sliding coupler..
or is it normal ... yes this problem is there since i bought the car three years back.. so is it that it is pretty normal with the accent or is it only mine.... doesnt make a difference cause i can double clutch and get it in ... but just curious to know ...

it is pretty clear that it is do with the splines of the synchro mesh .. cause when i rev match .. the problem doesnot appear

people please refrain from posting replies if you are not sure of the technical terms ..

thank you

drifter · 10th May 2005, 22:32

Its normal, theres nothing wrong with it...the gearbox is not designed to shift from 2nd into 1st at any speed other than crawling. Say if you downshift to 1st at around 20-30kmph...it will be difficult and you will hear the gears grind. The technicalities i'l leave to the experts. Try it in any car...you will get the same problem...as far as possible use heel toe technique uptill 2nd gear. Or you may end up with a damaged transmission.

Drifter

speedsatya · 10th May 2005, 22:32

most cars have constant mesh on the first and reverse gears.while the other gears are syncromesh.

so when u try to engage first or reverse when the car is in motion,u can get this grinding ,grating sound.
thats what the maruti guy had told me .

cheatingdeath · 10th May 2005, 22:39

ok so now i get it ... first and reverse dont have it right so even if i heel toe brake it wont actaully work... its just that the speed lowers enough to drop it in and i felt its becoz of heel toe lol..

ok so its pretty normal cool

anyone here a expert in heel toe .. may be jigar can shed some light on this topic

cheatingdeath · 10th May 2005, 22:41

ya drifter but i dont downshift when i i m on even less than 20 its still promiminent

drifter · 10th May 2005, 22:53

yeah it will slide in only while crawling.

Drifter

cheatingdeath · 10th May 2005, 22:55

hmmm.. got that thanks drifter

speedsatya · 10th May 2005, 23:00

u really dont need to use first gear while in motion.if at all u need to use it to go over speedbreakers,then it is advisable that u stop the car before the speedbreaker and then use first gear to go over it.

cheatingdeath · 10th May 2005, 23:24

ya but there are cases when i am in second and speed is too low to pick up in second quickly and it sometimes jerks ..... so instinctivly put it in st hapens very rarely cause to avoid grinding i slip the clutch and then re engage keeping the stick in 2nd ...l

humyum · 24th April 2006, 00:33

yeah dude..that happens 1st gear..nd reverse gear..dont have synronizing rings..thats why..whenever u engage at a particular speed like 20 to 30 km..u have to apply a lot of pressure..nd u get that krrrrrrrrrr sound..not good for the gearbox..as well as the clutch...only when u are at about 5 to 10 km..should u even think about shifting in 1st..otherwise u damage the gear teeths in the long run..

Deeps · 24th April 2006, 01:42

Only solution to the grinding sound is to use the double-declutching method.

Shan2nu · 21st June 2009, 01:14

Hey guys, even i experienced this grinding in 1st gear today. Could it be a synchro prob?
It only comes when when i shift into 1st when the vehicle is moving.

The rest of the gears are running as usual.

Will take it to Honda on monday and see what they have to say.

Shan2nu

nitrous · 21st June 2009, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by shan2nu

It only comes when when i shift into 1st when the vehicle is moving.

Clearly, the synchro.
I doubt there's synchro rings past 2nd gear.

Shan2nu · 21st June 2009, 02:14

Quote:

Clearly, the synchro.

Even i suspect it. Will get it checked on monday and replace the required part before it gets worse.

I just hope Honda doesn't use their usual tactics of replacing a large unit to rectify one small problem. If so, i might as well get it done elsewhere.

Shan2nu

Shan2nu · 28th June 2009, 15:25

UPDATE :

Ok, so it turns out the synchro is ok. Started the car on Monday and found that everything was working perfectly, no sound when shifting into 1st even at higher speeds.

In any case, asked Honda for a synchro ring replacement estimate. Boy was i lucky coz it would have set me back by 13,700 bucks!!! The ring itself costs 8 grand and then theres the usual manufacturers charges.

Asked them what could have caused this temporary problem but Honda had no answer. Spoke to people at RD and they suspect it could have been due to a weak clutch pressure plate.

Im happy the car is back to its normal state. Will have to get the transmission seviced and the clutch replaced asap.

Are there any other possible reasons that could have caused this?

Shan2nu

10th May 2005, 22:24	#1
cheatingdeath BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 275 Thanked: 10 Times	grinding when first gear engaged guyz... ihave this query whenever i downshift ... from may be 2nd to 1st in my accent i experience grinding .. well this does not happen alwayz if i let the car to almost stop to a stand still it does not appear.. so it requires a lot of patience.... but this noise doesnt appear when i double clutch the car while down shifting using toe heel braking ... that means whenever i blip the throttle the speed of the intermidiate shaft and the transmission has the same speed ... so it engages without any noise .. but its not alwayz possible to blip and downshift ...is there somethng wrong with the synchro mesh or even the sliding coupler.. or is it normal ... yes this problem is there since i bought the car three years back.. so is it that it is pretty normal with the accent or is it only mine.... doesnt make a difference cause i can double clutch and get it in ... but just curious to know ... it is pretty clear that it is do with the splines of the synchro mesh .. cause when i rev match .. the problem doesnot appear people please refrain from posting replies if you are not sure of the technical terms .. thank you Last edited by cheatingdeath : 10th May 2005 at 22:27.
	() Thanks

10th May 2005, 22:32	#2
drifter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,488 Thanked: 75 Times View My Garage	Its normal, theres nothing wrong with it...the gearbox is not designed to shift from 2nd into 1st at any speed other than crawling. Say if you downshift to 1st at around 20-30kmph...it will be difficult and you will hear the gears grind. The technicalities i'l leave to the experts. Try it in any car...you will get the same problem...as far as possible use heel toe technique uptill 2nd gear. Or you may end up with a damaged transmission. Drifter
	() Thanks

10th May 2005, 22:32	#3
speedsatya Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: bangalore/manga Posts: 3,169 Thanked: 738 Times View My Garage	most cars have constant mesh on the first and reverse gears.while the other gears are syncromesh. so when u try to engage first or reverse when the car is in motion,u can get this grinding ,grating sound. thats what the maruti guy had told me .
	() Thanks

10th May 2005, 22:39	#4
cheatingdeath BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 275 Thanked: 10 Times	ok so now i get it ... first and reverse dont have it right so even if i heel toe brake it wont actaully work... its just that the speed lowers enough to drop it in and i felt its becoz of heel toe lol.. ok so its pretty normal cool anyone here a expert in heel toe .. may be jigar can shed some light on this topic
	() Thanks

10th May 2005, 22:41	#5
cheatingdeath BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 275 Thanked: 10 Times	ya drifter but i dont downshift when i i m on even less than 20 its still promiminent
	() Thanks

10th May 2005, 22:53	#6
drifter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,488 Thanked: 75 Times View My Garage	yeah it will slide in only while crawling. Drifter
	() Thanks

10th May 2005, 22:55	#7
cheatingdeath BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 275 Thanked: 10 Times	hmmm.. got that thanks drifter
	() Thanks

10th May 2005, 23:00	#8
speedsatya Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: bangalore/manga Posts: 3,169 Thanked: 738 Times View My Garage	u really dont need to use first gear while in motion.if at all u need to use it to go over speedbreakers,then it is advisable that u stop the car before the speedbreaker and then use first gear to go over it.
	() Thanks

10th May 2005, 23:24	#9
cheatingdeath BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 275 Thanked: 10 Times	ya but there are cases when i am in second and speed is too low to pick up in second quickly and it sometimes jerks ..... so instinctivly put it in st hapens very rarely cause to avoid grinding i slip the clutch and then re engage keeping the stick in 2nd ...l
	() Thanks

24th April 2006, 00:33	#10
humyum Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 2,752 Thanked: 5,431 Times	yeah dude..that happens 1st gear..nd reverse gear..dont have synronizing rings..thats why..whenever u engage at a particular speed like 20 to 30 km..u have to apply a lot of pressure..nd u get that krrrrrrrrrr sound..not good for the gearbox..as well as the clutch...only when u are at about 5 to 10 km..should u even think about shifting in 1st..otherwise u damage the gear teeths in the long run..
	() Thanks

24th April 2006, 01:42	#11
Deeps Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Delhi/Noida Posts: 1,116 Thanked: 170 Times	Only solution to the grinding sound is to use the double-declutching method.
	() Thanks

21st June 2009, 01:14	#12
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	Hey guys, even i experienced this grinding in 1st gear today. Could it be a synchro prob? It only comes when when i shift into 1st when the vehicle is moving. The rest of the gears are running as usual. Will take it to Honda on monday and see what they have to say. Shan2nu
	() Thanks

28th June 2009, 15:25	#15
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	UPDATE : Ok, so it turns out the synchro is ok. Started the car on Monday and found that everything was working perfectly, no sound when shifting into 1st even at higher speeds. In any case, asked Honda for a synchro ring replacement estimate. Boy was i lucky coz it would have set me back by 13,700 bucks!!! The ring itself costs 8 grand and then theres the usual manufacturers charges. Asked them what could have caused this temporary problem but Honda had no answer. Spoke to people at RD and they suspect it could have been due to a weak clutch pressure plate. Im happy the car is back to its normal state. Will have to get the transmission seviced and the clutch replaced asap. Are there any other possible reasons that could have caused this? Shan2nu
	() Thanks