Sluggish Pick Up at Hot Engine - Indigo TDI

virender · 28th April 2009, 14:53

Hello,

I own 3.3 yrs old 68000 kms run indigo TDI.

I feel a very sluggish pick-up when the engine is hot during these summer days. At this particular time the engine temperature needle remain at the Center mark. I commute daily for around 60 km from Noida to Delhi . When in the morning when engine is not hot it feel really very light and compete with even petrol car well. but after say an hour from start up when engine get hot it become a bit sluggish and looks like have to pull forcefully and almost you will feel that the engine loosing power and coming to a halt. even noise level is not as smooth as in morning .

it become more sluggish with AC on especially in afternoon when outside temperature is high. with respect to when AC on at cold engine like in morning time.

Is it happen with All Indigos ? I use premium diesel normally Hi Speed

Any suggestions on the same.

Regds,

Virender

greenhorn · 28th April 2009, 15:07

My Indica TDI faces the same after being driven around in the city at high temperatures. this effect is less if you are on the highway at high speeds.

I drive more in the morning/evening, so it affects me less, but I do face it too. If the issue gets worse with the AC on, you might want to check the EGR. It is deactivated when the AC is turned on to compensate for the drop in power

virender · 28th April 2009, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenhorn

My Indica TDI faces the same after being driven around in the city at high temperatures. this effect is less if you are on the highway at high speeds.

I drive more in the morning/evening, so it affects me less, but I do face it too. If the issue gets worse with the AC on, you might want to check the EGR. It is deactivated when the AC is turned on to compensate for the drop in power

What is EGR and how it function ?

greenhorn · 28th April 2009, 15:33

Exhaust gas recirculation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

its something used to improve emissions. it also lowers power, so its turned off when the AC is on

teknophobia · 28th April 2009, 15:52

Same here, I have noticed nearly 20 kmph drop in top speed when it's really hot, apart from the drop in pickup. It's a common issue with all intercooled engines, with a rise in intercooler core temp, power drops noticeably. This is the reason why the new WRX STi comes with a system to spray water on the I/C core (manual in lower end versions and auto on the top end version).

@greenhorn EGR in the 475 TCIC is disabled after 3000 RPM, not when the AC is switched on.

greenhorn · 28th April 2009, 16:06

you're right, i dunno where i read about the EGR being turned off when the AC is used
more details on the EGR here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...iesel-ecu.html

adityamunshi · 28th April 2009, 16:27

Do the wheel rims get very hot (i.e. difficult to touch) when the car is sluggish ?

I has this problem in my V2 DLS 2004 (75K) and it turned out to be brake drag. Some work on the master cylinder for 400 fixed it.

virender · 29th April 2009, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by adityamunshi

Do the wheel rims get very hot (i.e. difficult to touch) when the car is sluggish ?

I has this problem in my V2 DLS 2004 (75K) and it turned out to be brake drag. Some work on the master cylinder for 400 fixed it.

I have not check the wheel rims but what is the relation of hot engine with wheel rims

GTO · 29th April 2009, 20:46

Nothing new, Virender. It's most definitely the hot air working against the engine & intercooler.

BTW, I've always felt my cars being *faster* at night. Slim margin but definitely noticeable. Colder / denser air? Probably.

nitrous · 29th April 2009, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

BTW, I've always felt my cars being *faster* at night. Slim margin but definitely noticeable. Colder / denser air? Probably.

Yes, the colder air passing through the IAT sensor advances the timing through the ECU.

adityamunshi · 29th April 2009, 23:01

It happens because the calipers arent completely released and the brakes are applied (partly) even when the car is moving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by virender

I have not check the wheel rims but what is the relation of hot engine with wheel rims

mandyrana · 30th April 2009, 14:22

I am facing the same problem in my Indigo Marina from last month.

neel385 · 7th May 2009, 22:56

The point from GTO regarding temperature is spot on. All internal combustion engines work in the principle of constant volume. What happens is, as temperature rises, the density falls. As a result of this, when you keep the volume of charge constant, the amount of air, or the weight of the charge that is actually reaching the cylinder falls, resulting in the drop in power. Coupled with this is the turbocharger/supercharger in which, because of compression, the temperature of the air/air-fuel mix also rises,and that too by upto 200C depending on the compression, thus nesessiating the intercooler.
It therefore stands to reason that in a hot day, where the temperature of the air itself is high, there is a noticeable fall in power output. Incidentally, the air intake design can also make a huge difference in the temperature of the air coming in. While free flow air filters increase power output by allowing more air into the engine, the lesser drag of these filters also reduce the temperature rise of the incoming air due to friction.

arun.m · 22nd May 2009, 16:36

What I see about my uncle's indica (2004, diesel) when he parked his vehicle in garage, he used to open then bonnet, in that way the engine cools fast and in monring, it is not as hot as closed bonnet car. the car is used for rental and cross over 1,41,000+ KMs in April 2009 and now running with an avg of 12 with AC on. So, I suggest people with good garage facility, please open your car's bonnets all the time when it is in garage.

VeeTee · 22nd May 2009, 17:42

Also as the temperature raises, the coolant is getting hotter. So, the cooling effect of the engine is lesser. At higher temperatures, the newer engines are also derated for torque (also power) i.e., the maximum torque output from the engine is restricted as it would be difficult to cool the engine at higher torque outputs. If the engine temperature goes really high (for e.g., above 105 C or so) the torque could be dearted by as much as 40%.

28th April 2009, 14:53	#1
virender BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Noida Posts: 33 Thanked: 0 Times	Sluggish Pick Up at Hot Engine - Indigo TDI Hello, I own 3.3 yrs old 68000 kms run indigo TDI. I feel a very sluggish pick-up when the engine is hot during these summer days. At this particular time the engine temperature needle remain at the Center mark. I commute daily for around 60 km from Noida to Delhi . When in the morning when engine is not hot it feel really very light and compete with even petrol car well. but after say an hour from start up when engine get hot it become a bit sluggish and looks like have to pull forcefully and almost you will feel that the engine loosing power and coming to a halt. even noise level is not as smooth as in morning . it become more sluggish with AC on especially in afternoon when outside temperature is high. with respect to when AC on at cold engine like in morning time. Is it happen with All Indigos ? I use premium diesel normally Hi Speed Any suggestions on the same. Regds, Virender
	() Thanks

28th April 2009, 15:07	#2
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,402 Times View My Garage	My Indica TDI faces the same after being driven around in the city at high temperatures. this effect is less if you are on the highway at high speeds. I drive more in the morning/evening, so it affects me less, but I do face it too. If the issue gets worse with the AC on, you might want to check the EGR. It is deactivated when the AC is turned on to compensate for the drop in power Last edited by greenhorn : 28th April 2009 at 15:09.
	() Thanks

28th April 2009, 15:33	#4
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,402 Times View My Garage	Exhaust gas recirculation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia its something used to improve emissions. it also lowers power, so its turned off when the AC is on
	() Thanks

28th April 2009, 15:52	#5
teknophobia BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: WB/MH Posts: 385 Thanked: 121 Times	Same here, I have noticed nearly 20 kmph drop in top speed when it's really hot, apart from the drop in pickup. It's a common issue with all intercooled engines, with a rise in intercooler core temp, power drops noticeably. This is the reason why the new WRX STi comes with a system to spray water on the I/C core (manual in lower end versions and auto on the top end version). @greenhorn EGR in the 475 TCIC is disabled after 3000 RPM, not when the AC is switched on. Last edited by teknophobia : 28th April 2009 at 15:56.
	() Thanks

28th April 2009, 16:06	#6
greenhorn Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,745 Thanked: 4,402 Times View My Garage	you're right, i dunno where i read about the EGR being turned off when the AC is used more details on the EGR here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...iesel-ecu.html
	() Thanks

28th April 2009, 16:27	#7
adityamunshi BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Baroda Posts: 771 Thanked: 6 Times	Do the wheel rims get very hot (i.e. difficult to touch) when the car is sluggish ? I has this problem in my V2 DLS 2004 (75K) and it turned out to be brake drag. Some work on the master cylinder for 400 fixed it.
	() Thanks

29th April 2009, 20:46	#9
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,546 Thanked: 300,788 Times View My Garage	Nothing new, Virender. It's most definitely the hot air working against the engine & intercooler. BTW, I've always felt my cars being faster at night. Slim margin but definitely noticeable. Colder / denser air? Probably.
	() Thanks

30th April 2009, 14:22	#12
mandyrana BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Faridabad Posts: 180 Thanked: 18 Times	I am facing the same problem in my Indigo Marina from last month.
	() Thanks

7th May 2009, 22:56	#13
neel385 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kharagpur Posts: 530 Thanked: 429 Times View My Garage	The point from GTO regarding temperature is spot on. All internal combustion engines work in the principle of constant volume. What happens is, as temperature rises, the density falls. As a result of this, when you keep the volume of charge constant, the amount of air, or the weight of the charge that is actually reaching the cylinder falls, resulting in the drop in power. Coupled with this is the turbocharger/supercharger in which, because of compression, the temperature of the air/air-fuel mix also rises,and that too by upto 200C depending on the compression, thus nesessiating the intercooler. It therefore stands to reason that in a hot day, where the temperature of the air itself is high, there is a noticeable fall in power output. Incidentally, the air intake design can also make a huge difference in the temperature of the air coming in. While free flow air filters increase power output by allowing more air into the engine, the lesser drag of these filters also reduce the temperature rise of the incoming air due to friction.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2009, 16:36	#14
arun.m BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kolkata Posts: 44 Thanked: Once View My Garage	Re: Sluggish Pick Up What I see about my uncle's indica (2004, diesel) when he parked his vehicle in garage, he used to open then bonnet, in that way the engine cools fast and in monring, it is not as hot as closed bonnet car. the car is used for rental and cross over 1,41,000+ KMs in April 2009 and now running with an avg of 12 with AC on. So, I suggest people with good garage facility, please open your car's bonnets all the time when it is in garage.
	() Thanks

22nd May 2009, 17:42	#15
VeeTee BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 44 Thanked: 17 Times	Also as the temperature raises, the coolant is getting hotter. So, the cooling effect of the engine is lesser. At higher temperatures, the newer engines are also derated for torque (also power) i.e., the maximum torque output from the engine is restricted as it would be difficult to cool the engine at higher torque outputs. If the engine temperature goes really high (for e.g., above 105 C or so) the torque could be dearted by as much as 40%.
	() Thanks