Engine Idling Problem

KSM-Vtec · 11th June 2009, 16:28

Hi BHPians,

I have been facing this strange problem with my OHC idling for some time now. It all started after I got my car serviced (Throttle Body cleanup, Injector cleanup K&N air filter installed, Engine Oil Changed).

The car started idling higher (1200RPM) and also started fluctuating a lot (800-1500 RPM). It was found that there was a leak in the fuel pipe that comes to the injectors. This was immediately rectified and the irregular idling stopped.

By now the idling had settled at 900RPM which is still not normal (normal being 800RPM prior to the service). I am told this could be due to the TB cleaning as the carbon in there has now come off. (Suggestions are welcome)

Current Problem – When the Air-Con is switched on the idling rises to 1300RPM every time the clutch is pressed (even between gear shifts). When the car is put into neutral on a traffic signal the idling first rises to 1300RPM and then settles at 1000RPM in a few seconds.

Please note that the same happens even after the car has run for more than 10kms and not only on a cold start.

ashthedivx · 11th June 2009, 16:55

Did you tried resetting ECU, most of such problems are settled up by resetting the ECU !

KSM-Vtec · 11th June 2009, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashthedivx

Did you tried resetting ECU, most of such problems are settled up by resetting the ECU !

well i have done that but i can try again for sure..

but following is the problem that i need to address ASAP -

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec

Current Problem – When the Air-Con is switched on the idling rises to 1300RPM every time the clutch is pressed (even between gear shifts). When the car is put into neutral on a traffic signal the idling first rises to 1300RPM and then settles at 1000RPM in a few seconds.

Please note that the same happens even after the car has run for more than 10kms and not only on a cold start.

ssjr0498 · 11th June 2009, 17:04

Hi,

please check the following

1. there is a " grey" colored thin pipe connecting to the vacuum line on you fuel rail. Please make sure that this pipe is connecting and is not lying around.

2. After the above is done or if the problem is not as mentioned, get the TPS checked and get the Idling corrected.

My two cents.

Shrey

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec

Hi BHPians,

I have been facing this strange problem with my OHC idling for some time now. It all started after I got my car serviced (Throttle Body cleanup, Injector cleanup K&N air filter installed, Engine Oil Changed).

The car started idling higher (1200RPM) and also started fluctuating a lot (800-1500 RPM). It was found that there was a leak in the fuel pipe that comes to the injectors. This was immediately rectified and the irregular idling stopped.

By now the idling had settled at 900RPM which is still not normal (normal being 800RPM prior to the service). I am told this could be due to the TB cleaning as the carbon in there has now come off. (Suggestions are welcome)

Current Problem – When the Air-Con is switched on the idling rises to 1300RPM every time the clutch is pressed (even between gear shifts). When the car is put into neutral on a traffic signal the idling first rises to 1300RPM and then settles at 1000RPM in a few seconds.

Please note that the same happens even after the car has run for more than 10kms and not only on a cold start.

shreyasma · 11th June 2009, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashthedivx

Did you tried resetting ECU, most of such problems are settled up by resetting the ECU !

Thats exactly my suggestion. There is absolutely no harm in doing the reset. the perfomance smoothens also.

Try these to reset.

1. Disconnect the Battery terminals at night and leavi it like that till morning. (Idea is to do this when engine is cold)
2. connect the terminals back and start the engine and leave it in idle till the working temperature is shown on the temperature guage. (about 10-15 mins)
3. Run the car for about 4-5 kms with and without the AC. This helps the ECU to learn to perform in both the conditions.
4. Turn off the engine for 1-2 mins.
5. Start and drive back.

The engine will feel rough initially for about 20-30 kms. After that it will be like brand new.

Note: If you have bright bulbs with a relay setup, its better to do the running keeping the light on with and without AC combinations in the initiam 4-5 kms run. This is because the idling increases with headlights on in some cars as the alternator needs the power to charge the battery

Sideways · 11th June 2009, 17:20

Hi Kaushik,

Check Vacum hose, as suggested by ssjr.

If thats ok, try this: -

There is a air screw on top of the thrrottle body (it's like that on the Mitsubishi, postion might vary for Hondas), which can be adjusted to fine tune the idling rpm of the car.

1) Start the car and warm the engine to operating temperature - go for a short drive if you need to.

2) With the engine on and the aircon off, open the hood. You will need a small screw driver with a flat end.

3) Turn the screw clockwise until you acheive the required rpm - in your case - 800 rpm.

4) Once this is set, when you switch on your aircon, the stepper motor will automatically kick in and raise the rpm by another 100 to 150 rpm.

I do not have a photograph of the honda engine, and request any team bhpian to post an image and mark the part I am talking about.

If the above does not work, then there is another area you will have to identify.

There is a semi circular spring loaded contraption attached to the throttle body which has the accelerator cable connected to it. In front of this contraption there is a small screw with a lock nut. What happens at times is that the lock nut becomes loose and the screw automatically gets tightened due to the vibrations, thus pushing on the spring loaded bracket, which in turn opens the butterfly, due to which RPM increases.

You will need a star (philips) screw driver to adjust this screw and then tighten the lock not with a spanner.

Follow steps 1 &2 (replace screw driver head)

3) Turn screw anti clockwise.
4) Holding the screw with screw driver in the required position, use a spanner to tighten the lock nut.

Whilst the first procedure is fairly simple, the second one is more complex.

However, I feel that in your case the first solution will take care of your problem.

If you are not confident of doing this your self, take it to your mechanic and explain what needs to be done.

Hope this helps.

Sorry if I have confused you.

esteem_lover · 11th June 2009, 17:26

@Farhan, do the FI engines also have air screw & butterfly ?

Sideways · 11th June 2009, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

@Farhan, do the FI engines also have air screw & butterfly ?

Air screw - not as in carb cars to adjust mixture of AF ratio. This one is to fine tune idle rpm's.

I am referring to the flap inside the throttle body as the butterfly. I don't know if there is another terminology for it.

Edit - I think it is called the throttle plate.

kutlee · 11th June 2009, 17:30

I am not sure whether this helps. Since you have already reset the ECU, I think this thing should be a mechanical fault. I think the accelerator cable is already loaded increasing the idle RPM as Sideways suggested. nothing serious i guess.

KSM-Vtec · 11th June 2009, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutlee

I am not sure whether this helps. Since you have already reset the ECU, I think this thing should be a mechanical fault. I think the accelerator cable is already loaded increasing the idle RPM as Sideways suggested. nothing serious i guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideways

Hi Kaushik,

Check Vacum hose, as suggested by ssjr.

If thats ok, try this: -....

Sorry if I have confused you.

Guys i think the above suggestions apply to this problem right?? -

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec

By now the idling had settled at 900RPM which is still not normal (normal being 800RPM prior to the service). I am told this could be due to the TB cleaning as the carbon in there has now come off. (Suggestions are welcome)

But what about this one?? I need a solution for this one too -

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec

Current Problem – When the Air-Con is switched on the idling rises to 1300RPM every time the clutch is pressed (even between gear shifts). When the car is put into neutral on a traffic signal the idling first rises to 1300RPM and then settles at 1000RPM in a few seconds.

Please note that the same happens even after the car has run for more than 10kms and not only on a cold start.

esteem_lover · 11th June 2009, 17:52

I have noticed a similar, but less pronounced action in my friends NHC Vtec. The car is only 6000 kms old. Whenever i engage the clutch to shift gears, the RPM rises by 100/200.

abhik · 11th June 2009, 17:53

Spot on Sideways, excellent description! KSM thats exactly what you need to do. Apart from this if the problem still persists on AC then do get the AC gas checked and topped up as well.
If the problem still persits then you have to get the TP sensor checked.

abhik · 11th June 2009, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

I have noticed a similar, but less pronounced action in my friends NHC Vtec. The car is only 6000 kms old. Whenever i engage the clutch to shift gears, the RPM rises by 100/200.

This is normal except if it happens when you are moving from standstill, the RPM should not rise when you depress the clutch when you are engaging 1st gear to move from a standstill.
Otherwise when you are shifting, especially when pushing the car hard at higher RPMs, its very normal for the RPM to rise 100-200revs. Ikons and Mondeos climbs about 400-500revs while shifting gears.

PS. Sorry MODS for the back to back posts, other posts came in while i was typing the previous post.

pranavt · 11th June 2009, 18:42

What Sideways said. I had the same problem after my old car came back from servicing. This cable was not in the proper place and got stuck to something else, raising the idling RPM of my car. Got home and opened the bonnet to try and find this cable. Found it was tangled with something else. Untangled it and it was fine.

Tejas@perioimpl · 11th June 2009, 19:27

Go to a guy with a scanner and check the error codes and then ask him to reset it. First and foremost. Then check for other issues.
I know of a guy in south bombay if you interested. Petrol pump next to Mucchad's (Dayaram Santdas). Charges 500bucks.

Check your matting, does the accelerator pedal get stuck and then disengage? Seems very stupid, but trust me this can happen. Happened in my 118NE.

11th June 2009, 16:28	#1
KSM-Vtec Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: MH-02-India-Bombay-Bandra Posts: 1,562 Thanked: 446 Times View My Garage	Engine Idling Problem Hi BHPians, I have been facing this strange problem with my OHC idling for some time now. It all started after I got my car serviced (Throttle Body cleanup, Injector cleanup K&N air filter installed, Engine Oil Changed). The car started idling higher (1200RPM) and also started fluctuating a lot (800-1500 RPM). It was found that there was a leak in the fuel pipe that comes to the injectors. This was immediately rectified and the irregular idling stopped. By now the idling had settled at 900RPM which is still not normal (normal being 800RPM prior to the service). I am told this could be due to the TB cleaning as the carbon in there has now come off. (Suggestions are welcome) Current Problem – When the Air-Con is switched on the idling rises to 1300RPM every time the clutch is pressed (even between gear shifts). When the car is put into neutral on a traffic signal the idling first rises to 1300RPM and then settles at 1000RPM in a few seconds. Please note that the same happens even after the car has run for more than 10kms and not only on a cold start. Last edited by KSM-Vtec : 11th June 2009 at 16:31.
	(1) Thanks

11th June 2009, 16:55	#2
ashthedivx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,356 Thanked: 24 Times	Did you tried resetting ECU, most of such problems are settled up by resetting the ECU !
	() Thanks

11th June 2009, 17:20	#6
Sideways BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Madras - India Posts: 641 Thanked: 31 Times View My Garage	Hi Kaushik, Check Vacum hose, as suggested by ssjr. If thats ok, try this: - There is a air screw on top of the thrrottle body (it's like that on the Mitsubishi, postion might vary for Hondas), which can be adjusted to fine tune the idling rpm of the car. 1) Start the car and warm the engine to operating temperature - go for a short drive if you need to. 2) With the engine on and the aircon off, open the hood. You will need a small screw driver with a flat end. 3) Turn the screw clockwise until you acheive the required rpm - in your case - 800 rpm. 4) Once this is set, when you switch on your aircon, the stepper motor will automatically kick in and raise the rpm by another 100 to 150 rpm. I do not have a photograph of the honda engine, and request any team bhpian to post an image and mark the part I am talking about. If the above does not work, then there is another area you will have to identify. There is a semi circular spring loaded contraption attached to the throttle body which has the accelerator cable connected to it. In front of this contraption there is a small screw with a lock nut. What happens at times is that the lock nut becomes loose and the screw automatically gets tightened due to the vibrations, thus pushing on the spring loaded bracket, which in turn opens the butterfly, due to which RPM increases. You will need a star (philips) screw driver to adjust this screw and then tighten the lock not with a spanner. Follow steps 1 &2 (replace screw driver head) 3) Turn screw anti clockwise. 4) Holding the screw with screw driver in the required position, use a spanner to tighten the lock nut. Whilst the first procedure is fairly simple, the second one is more complex. However, I feel that in your case the first solution will take care of your problem. If you are not confident of doing this your self, take it to your mechanic and explain what needs to be done. Hope this helps. Sorry if I have confused you. Last edited by Sideways : 11th June 2009 at 17:24.
	() Thanks

11th June 2009, 17:26	#7
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	@Farhan, do the FI engines also have air screw & butterfly ?
	() Thanks

11th June 2009, 17:30	#9
kutlee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 1,141 Thanked: 232 Times View My Garage	I am not sure whether this helps. Since you have already reset the ECU, I think this thing should be a mechanical fault. I think the accelerator cable is already loaded increasing the idle RPM as Sideways suggested. nothing serious i guess.
	() Thanks

11th June 2009, 17:52	#11
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	I have noticed a similar, but less pronounced action in my friends NHC Vtec. The car is only 6000 kms old. Whenever i engage the clutch to shift gears, the RPM rises by 100/200.
	() Thanks

11th June 2009, 17:53	#12
abhik BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 848 Thanked: 12 Times View My Garage	Spot on Sideways, excellent description! KSM thats exactly what you need to do. Apart from this if the problem still persists on AC then do get the AC gas checked and topped up as well. If the problem still persits then you have to get the TP sensor checked.
	() Thanks

11th June 2009, 18:42	#14
pranavt Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,682 Thanked: 641 Times View My Garage	What Sideways said. I had the same problem after my old car came back from servicing. This cable was not in the proper place and got stuck to something else, raising the idling RPM of my car. Got home and opened the bonnet to try and find this cable. Found it was tangled with something else. Untangled it and it was fine.
	() Thanks

11th June 2009, 19:27	#15
Tejas@perioimpl Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bombay Posts: 4,423 Thanked: 9,582 Times View My Garage	Go to a guy with a scanner and check the error codes and then ask him to reset it. First and foremost. Then check for other issues. I know of a guy in south bombay if you interested. Petrol pump next to Mucchad's (Dayaram Santdas). Charges 500bucks. Check your matting, does the accelerator pedal get stuck and then disengage? Seems very stupid, but trust me this can happen. Happened in my 118NE.
	() Thanks