Is it possible to drive without riding the clutch in India?

jassi · 30th July 2009, 12:11

i am guessing half-clutching without pressing accelerator is same as 'riding the clutch'

@themag - are you referring to half-clutching as the solution?

phamilyman · 30th July 2009, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by amitk26

Seems the problem is with the gear ratio a clever ploy to make engine look peppier for short bursts but not good if one has to pull out of slush but then swift is meant to be driven on road with out traffic.

Do you work for Maruti? Or are being plainly impractical and arguing for the sake of it?

Bumper to bumper traffic is our reality. Or wait till Nano really becomes popular.

anekho · 30th July 2009, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmbabu

If you are still holding clutch down (however light it may be) while pressing the accelerator pedal, that is called "riding the clutch". In other words, using both accelarator and clutch at the same time is riding the clutch.

oh, thanks dude!

well I'm always riding the clutch in that case... but upon observing my dad, he rarely does

I guess it's all in the footwork - I need to drive more

cheers

download2live · 19th October 2010, 16:52

Guys in bumper to Bumper traffic I just release the clutch and Punto moves foreward without need for accelerator. And crawls nicely. Thats the good part.

Bad part?
When I release the clutch slowly the car surges forward at a speed higher than the speed with which it crawls later without accelerator in first gear (after the clutch is fully released).

How other Punto or other Diesel car owners are controlling this initial surge of speed?

What is happening now is that I release the clutch only half and that surge brings me close enough to the back of the other car in no time. And then I press the clutch down again fully and wait for the next crawl. Of course I am not using accelerator but I do feel that this will damage clutch.

Any way out experts?

amulu10 · 19th October 2010, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by download2live

Guys in bumper to Bumper traffic I just release the clutch and Punto moves foreward without need for accelerator. And crawls nicely. Thats the good part.

Bad part?
When I release the clutch slowly the car surges forward at a speed higher than the speed with which it crawls later without accelerator in first gear (after the clutch is fully released).

How other Punto or other Diesel car owners are controlling this initial surge of speed?

What is happening now is that I release the clutch only half and that surge brings me close enough to the back of the other car in no time. And then I press the clutch down again fully and wait for the next crawl. Of course I am not using accelerator but I do feel that this will damage clutch.

Any way out experts?

I drive a Fiat punto MJD and the same thing happens in my punto too. It indeed surges ahead at the biting point of the clutch . But i don't think using the clutch without applying acceleration input is the same as riding the clutch and i am not sure if it will damage the clutch either.
The clutch gets damaged when you press the acceleration while half clutching i.e riding the clutch

shankar.balan · 19th October 2010, 18:38

of course one can drive without riding the clutch. i do it all the time in traffic.
i simply keep my vehicle in 1st or 2nd depending on the situation and my foot OFF the accelerator. the vehicle's inherent torque keeps it chugging along.
the minute I anticipate coming to a dead halt I simply shove the gear in neutral and take my foot off the clutch completely.
i find this treatment in my Scorpio helps a great deal in keeping my clutch upto scratch and the vehicle indeed feels just as nice as it did when I drove it out of the showroom delivery area 2 and half years ago.
this claim I ve made above is corroborated by the service mechanics/ advisors and several friends of mine too.

n.devdath · 19th October 2010, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

the minute I anticipate coming to a dead halt I simply shove the gear in neutral and take my foot off the clutch completely.
i find this treatment in my Scorpio helps a great deal in keeping my clutch upto scratch and the vehicle indeed feels just as nice as it did when I drove it out of the showroom delivery area 2 and half years ago.
this claim I ve made above is corroborated by the service mechanics/ advisors and several friends of mine too.

I used to do this too but off late people have been saying that "coasting" can be dangerous and that one gets a better FE if the vehicle is in gear even if the rpms are high(while coming down a slope for example) with the foot off the accelerator pedal.

Hence I stopped the above practice. I m not sure if I m correct though.

shankar.balan · 20th October 2010, 04:55

I do this only in city and in high traffic conditions when approaching a bottleneck/ traffic light. the actual coasting is for around 5-10 metres at the maximum. Typically I switch off once I come to a dead halt. However of late with loads of these transgender type individuals hanging around the traffic lights, nowadays I dont switch off at all but leave the AC on and the Windows up.

I would NEVER coast down a slope - I learned my driving in the hills and coasting down slopes is an absolutely strict no -no. it is really dangerous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by n.devdath

I used to do this too but off late people have been saying that "coasting" can be dangerous and that one gets a better FE if the vehicle is in gear even if the rpms are high(while coming down a slope for example) with the foot off the accelerator pedal.

Hence I stopped the above practice. I m not sure if I m correct though.

rohanjf · 20th October 2010, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

the minute I anticipate coming to a dead halt I simply shove the gear in neutral and take my foot off the clutch completely.

May be a bit off topic: I used to do that regularly in my Palio MJD, especially while approaching speedbreakers on empty roads, but I stopped it after I noticed the RPM fluctuating while "coasting" (It wouldn't fluctuate when the car stagnant or when the car is moving with clutch fully pressed).
I used to 'ride the clutch' when I started driving, but that caused the clutch to be quite hard. The service guys said the clutch bracket was damaged, and replaced it. So now it is full clutch or no clutch!

Sheel · 20th October 2010, 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikoneer

technique used to change gears and move the vehicle in a bump - bumper traffic.

I learnt this when I started to reverse the Car, put in reverse, release the clutch w/o any input from accelerator and the Car would move backwards at a predictable rate.

The same is applied when crawling, the moment there is a need to shift to 1st required, I go down a gear and don't ride the clutch, I don't why most people do not down-shift and it is very hard for me to see them riding clutch.

I am no pro driver and just getting the hang of Cars. Hate lugging, but love red-lining.

edit-- you need to feather the throttle when crawling.

HappyGoLucky · 20th October 2010, 09:31

This riding the clutch and coasting phenomenon is one thing that I could never fathom. I have driven around 60k kms in Swift and Innova and both have good clutch till now, but according to the discussions going on here it seems I am guilty of both riding the clutch (primarily while in bumper to bumper traffic) and coasting whenever I dont need to keep the accelerator pressed. Other people have also driven my cars and they didnt feel clutch to be hard or slipping etc.

The reason I do this is it makes my driving smoother and there hasn't been any bad effects till now. I get pretty good efficiency for the speeds I drive around 13-14 on petrol swift and 10-11 in diesel Innova in mostly city driving.

One thing I can understand about coasting is that it would put more stress on the brakes and is certainly not recommended when driving steep downhills. I havent had any issues with brake shoes wearing out early too. Can anybody explain how coasting uses more fuel if the rpms are lower and I am able to cover more distance than when in gear. I have heard this from lot of people but noone has really given a objective reasoning.

shankar.balan · 20th October 2010, 10:04

I put the gear into neutral position and coast with my foot off the clutch and the accelerator but poised over the brake pedal as required. This is done for just a few seconds at a time - I never coast for more than 5-10 metres MAX as I said before. And this, only in bad city traffic when approaching a red light or a bottle neck. Once the vehicle is braked and comes to a dead halt, I switch off.
Now I cannot even begin to understand how coasting causes higher fuel consumption and I am completely at sea regarding the RPM gauge because in my Scorp, I ve never noticed the RPM gauge fluctuating wildly at all.
In the Hills or on a descending slope there is no way one should ever Coast - damage to the brake pads, braking systems etc is one thing - high chance of losing control is the bigger danger in this practice. Hence not recommended at all.

While driving up and down slopes/hills, hairpin bends uneven surfaces, speed breakers, deep potholes and stuff, I typically anticipate and assess the situation beforehand and try to take the path of least resistance thereby trying to avoid damage to my vehicle. Using the right gear is of paramount importance in these situations, hence, typically I would downshift to third, second or first as and when and where required, before actually addressing the hairpin bend, uneven surface, speed breaker, deep pothole or whatever and then only, go over or around it in the lower gear. This way, I find my vehicle rattles less, lasts longer, gives a more comfortable ride to anyone sitting in it and saves me a lot of heart ache because I am very attached to my vehicle and hate to wantonly allow it to suffer.
Sitting in deep heavy traffic which could be of a bumper to bumper nature, like I said, owing to the inherent torque available in my Scorp, I chug in 1st or 2nd as required. If I know Im coming to a dead halt within the next few seconds then I do what I have described earlier.
I ve found a lot of owners and other drivers including cab drivers or hired drivers have a nasty habit of resting their left foot on the clutch even while driving at normal speeds in trafficky situations. I dont know why but this seems to give them some psychological peace. This is a sure-shot contributor to "clutch burn" scenarios.

It is also interesting to note what the service advisor said to me at the Mahindra Service Centre a month or two ago. He said that since most people graduate to a larger diesel SUV/ Jeep type vehicle from a petrol hatchback car, they take time to learn and adjust to the characteristics of the SUV and to make the necessary changes to accommodate these characteristics in their driving style (s). And he said that clutch fry cases abound in scenarios like this because they simply dont know how to handle the SUV's inherent power and torque properly by using the correct gear.
Also in normal city driving conditions,crossing speed breakers, traffic scenarios etc - they tend to push the vehicle in a higher gear while at a low speed or under braking and make the turbo spool up to take them over a speed breaker or whatever, instead of gearing down and allowing the lower gear to do the job!

druva · 20th October 2010, 10:37

What do you do when reversing? I feel the vehicle moves faster in reverse when I release the clutch completely. I presume half clutching in reverse too burns the clutch.

shankar.balan · 20th October 2010, 10:46

tsk1979 has addressed this in another thread. yes it is true that the SUV's like Scorpio and Safari have a tall gearing ratio in reverse. Reverse Ratio is quite close to 2nd gear. Hence the vehicle tends to rush a bit while in reverse with the foot totally off the clutch. Even I find this issue to be quite an irritant and unfortunately the only solution I have is to half clutch where required or fully depress and half release repeatedly until one has reversed enough for the particular requirement at that time. No other go as of now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by druva

What do you do when reversing? I feel the vehicle moves faster in reverse when I release the clutch completely. I presume half clutching in reverse too burns the clutch.

proton · 20th October 2010, 13:01

There are three situations that are being discussed:

Using Clutch Pedal as foot rest
Always wrong, leading to throw-out bearing failure and expensive dropping of tranny: solution, rest on dead pedal or floor.

Depressing Clutch Pedal partially
Necessary for smooth roll off and take up of clutch between gear AND controlling vehicle speed in gear engaged condition, wrongly used for avoiding a downshift, leading to premature clutch friction surface wear and dropping of tranny. This is generally the situation described as "riding".

Depressing Clutch Pedal fully
Necessary for disengaging and changing gears, wrongly used to achieve a neutral-like condition, for coasting, and for waiting at lights. Excessive practice can lead to premature throw-out bearing failure and wrong gears being engaged when the foot is lifted. Generally, a good rule of thumb is to descend a slope in the same gear as you would use to climb that slope. This would entail a slight application of accelerator, but afford some control when you lift your foot off the gas.

So there ARE situations when one DOES need to "ride" (partially depress) the clutch.

30th July 2009, 12:11	#61
jassi BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 980 Thanked: 12 Times View My Garage	i am guessing half-clutching without pressing accelerator is same as 'riding the clutch' @themag - are you referring to half-clutching as the solution?
	() Thanks

19th October 2010, 16:52	#64
download2live Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: - Posts: 1,157 Thanked: 1,271 Times	Guys in bumper to Bumper traffic I just release the clutch and Punto moves foreward without need for accelerator. And crawls nicely. Thats the good part. Bad part? When I release the clutch slowly the car surges forward at a speed higher than the speed with which it crawls later without accelerator in first gear (after the clutch is fully released). How other Punto or other Diesel car owners are controlling this initial surge of speed? What is happening now is that I release the clutch only half and that surge brings me close enough to the back of the other car in no time. And then I press the clutch down again fully and wait for the next crawl. Of course I am not using accelerator but I do feel that this will damage clutch. Any way out experts?
	() Thanks

19th October 2010, 18:38	#66
shankar.balan BANNED Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 11,797 Thanked: 27,229 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/3 (13)	of course one can drive without riding the clutch. i do it all the time in traffic. i simply keep my vehicle in 1st or 2nd depending on the situation and my foot OFF the accelerator. the vehicle's inherent torque keeps it chugging along. the minute I anticipate coming to a dead halt I simply shove the gear in neutral and take my foot off the clutch completely. i find this treatment in my Scorpio helps a great deal in keeping my clutch upto scratch and the vehicle indeed feels just as nice as it did when I drove it out of the showroom delivery area 2 and half years ago. this claim I ve made above is corroborated by the service mechanics/ advisors and several friends of mine too.
	() Thanks

20th October 2010, 09:31	#71
HappyGoLucky BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 36 Thanked: 0 Times	This riding the clutch and coasting phenomenon is one thing that I could never fathom. I have driven around 60k kms in Swift and Innova and both have good clutch till now, but according to the discussions going on here it seems I am guilty of both riding the clutch (primarily while in bumper to bumper traffic) and coasting whenever I dont need to keep the accelerator pressed. Other people have also driven my cars and they didnt feel clutch to be hard or slipping etc. The reason I do this is it makes my driving smoother and there hasn't been any bad effects till now. I get pretty good efficiency for the speeds I drive around 13-14 on petrol swift and 10-11 in diesel Innova in mostly city driving. One thing I can understand about coasting is that it would put more stress on the brakes and is certainly not recommended when driving steep downhills. I havent had any issues with brake shoes wearing out early too. Can anybody explain how coasting uses more fuel if the rpms are lower and I am able to cover more distance than when in gear. I have heard this from lot of people but noone has really given a objective reasoning.
	() Thanks

20th October 2010, 10:04	#72
shankar.balan BANNED Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 11,797 Thanked: 27,229 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/3 (13)	I put the gear into neutral position and coast with my foot off the clutch and the accelerator but *poised over the brake pedal* as required. This is done for just a few seconds at a time - I never coast for more than 5-10 metres MAX as I said before. And this, only in bad city traffic when approaching a red light or a bottle neck. Once the vehicle is braked and comes to a dead halt, I switch off. Now I cannot even begin to understand how coasting causes higher fuel consumption and I am completely at sea regarding the RPM gauge because in my Scorp, I ve never noticed the RPM gauge fluctuating wildly at all. In the Hills or on a descending slope there is no way one should ever Coast - damage to the brake pads, braking systems etc is one thing - high chance of losing control is the bigger danger in this practice. Hence not recommended at all. While driving up and down slopes/hills, hairpin bends uneven surfaces, speed breakers, deep potholes and stuff, I typically anticipate and assess the situation beforehand and try to take the path of least resistance thereby trying to avoid damage to my vehicle. Using the right gear is of paramount importance in these situations, hence, typically I would downshift to third, second or first as and when and where required, before actually addressing the hairpin bend, uneven surface, speed breaker, deep pothole or whatever and then only, go over or around it in the lower gear. This way, I find my vehicle rattles less, lasts longer, gives a more comfortable ride to anyone sitting in it and saves me a lot of heart ache because I am very attached to my vehicle and hate to wantonly allow it to suffer. Sitting in deep heavy traffic which could be of a bumper to bumper nature, like I said, owing to the inherent torque available in my Scorp, I chug in 1st or 2nd as required. If I know Im coming to a dead halt within the next few seconds then I do what I have described earlier. I ve found a lot of owners and other drivers including cab drivers or hired drivers have a nasty habit of resting their left foot on the clutch even while driving at normal speeds in trafficky situations. I dont know why but this seems to give them some psychological peace. This is a sure-shot contributor to "clutch burn" scenarios. It is also interesting to note what the service advisor said to me at the Mahindra Service Centre a month or two ago. He said that since most people graduate to a larger diesel SUV/ Jeep type vehicle from a petrol hatchback car, they take time to learn and adjust to the characteristics of the SUV and to make the necessary changes to accommodate these characteristics in their driving style (s). And he said that clutch fry cases abound in scenarios like this because they simply dont know how to handle the SUV's inherent power and torque properly by using the correct gear. Also in normal city driving conditions,crossing speed breakers, traffic scenarios etc - they tend to push the vehicle in a higher gear while at a low speed or under braking and make the turbo spool up to take them over a speed breaker or whatever, instead of gearing down and allowing the lower gear to do the job! Last edited by shankar.balan : 20th October 2010 at 10:07.
	() Thanks

20th October 2010, 10:37	#73
druva BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 313 Thanked: 37 Times	What do you do when reversing? I feel the vehicle moves faster in reverse when I release the clutch completely. I presume half clutching in reverse too burns the clutch.
	() Thanks

20th October 2010, 13:01	#75
proton BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 208 Thanked: 413 Times	There are three situations that are being discussed: Using Clutch Pedal as foot rest Always wrong, leading to throw-out bearing failure and expensive dropping of tranny: solution, rest on dead pedal or floor. Depressing Clutch Pedal partially Necessary for smooth roll off and take up of clutch between gear AND controlling vehicle speed in gear engaged condition, wrongly used for avoiding a downshift, leading to premature clutch friction surface wear and dropping of tranny. This is generally the situation described as "riding". Depressing Clutch Pedal fully Necessary for disengaging and changing gears, wrongly used to achieve a neutral-like condition, for coasting, and for waiting at lights. Excessive practice can lead to premature throw-out bearing failure and wrong gears being engaged when the foot is lifted. Generally, a good rule of thumb is to descend a slope in the same gear as you would use to climb that slope. This would entail a slight application of accelerator, but afford some control when you lift your foot off the gas. So there ARE situations when one DOES need to "ride" (partially depress) the clutch.
	() Thanks