Suspension Spacers or Tyres with higher profile? Which is better?-Speed breaker issue

WhiteKnight · 20th September 2009, 18:09

Okay, many of the cars we have scrap on humengous "made in India" speed breakers. It causes lot of heart ache.

Two el-chepo solutions,

1) Adding suspension spacers. The dynamics would be altered for sure as the angles of Lower arms and links change.

2) Getting a set of higher profile tyres than the recommented one- Lot of tyre dealers suggest this. Might work. It might limit suspension travel as the tyres end up hitting the wheel well when going thorough gutters.

Question for experts.
1) Which is a better option?
2) If you have tried these, what is your experience?

Thank you in advance

allenzaracer · 20th September 2009, 18:37

Sorry for hijacking your thread dear WhiteKnight, but I do not think I am allowed to start a new thread for a similar question.
Moreover it is exactly the kind of information I am looking for. Yesterday, I was test driving the i20 crdi and the car scraped its underbelly on a rather large speed breaker. My thoughts were to get the tyres upgraded from the regular 185/60/R14 to something larger with the same PCD to increase the GC.

Experts please suggest a possible upgrade to the mentioned spec. Also do not hesitate to suggest any possible alternative solutions available, to address this problem.

Nikhilb2008 · 20th September 2009, 23:50

@whiteknight --- I suggest higher profile tyres. Not spacers. Spacers are ok if you are going to be in the city 100%. I wouldnt recommend for highway trips and high speed driving. Too risky.

Allenzaracer --- Get 185/65 R14. Higher profile than 185/60 R14. However, I doubt if the tyre on i20 is actually 18/60 R14. It is usually 185/65 R14.

From 185/65 R14, you could think of getting 185/70 R14 or 195/65 R14 depending on the clearance available. Another thing you can do is to install aftermarket suspension which is stiffer. Of course, this is more of an 'extreme solution'.

WhiteKnight · 21st September 2009, 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008

@whiteknight --- I suggest higher profile tyres.

Thank you. Now the specifics. I am running 185/64 R14 on my Baleno which has rolling radius of 298.5 mm. If I change to 185/70 R 14, the rolling radius changes to 307.3 mm. The gain is 17.6 mm.

Do you see any risk of tyre hitting wheel wells during articulation?

devrajman · 21st September 2009, 18:10

Higher profile tyres tend to make ride softer but cornering, handling and manual steering tightness get effected.

Nikhil,
im aware of enormous knowledge and experience you have with tyres

I have 13" 5j OEM rims in my Zen. And OEM size tyres (145/70R13).

Now if im looking for thing like, increase in ground clearance, smoother/light manual steering, better handling (means sharper handling).

There is this chicken-egg thing.

Here are most of the options on a higher level. can be true for any car. Would be great if you can add your points for each one of the options. Thanks.

Same rim, bigger profile: Negative: less space for wheel in wheel well and more weight on suspension setup, increase in overall diameter.

Smaller rim with bigger profile: Negative: No increase in ground clearance.

Same rim with wider and higher profile tyre

Bigger rim with wider and higher profile tyre.
I hope you can understand the complete concern and confusion.

GTO · 21st September 2009, 18:30

Please note that taller tyres could affect the ABS system of some cars (check before upgrading) and will increase speedometer error (optimistically) . The best way to avoid scraping is attacking the large speedbreaker sideways, one wheel approach at a time. For some cars, you may also consider a slightly stiffer suspension setup (if bolt on parts are available).

Nikhilb2008 · 21st September 2009, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by devrajman

Higher profile tyres tend to make ride softer but cornering, handling and manual steering tightness get effected.

Nikhil,
im aware of enormous knowledge and experience you have with tyres

I have 13" 5j OEM rims in my Zen. And OEM size tyres (145/70R13).

Now if im looking for thing like, increase in ground clearance, smoother/light manual steering, better handling (means sharper handling).

There is this chicken-egg thing.

Here are most of the options on a higher level. can be true for any car. Would be great if you can add your points for each one of the options. Thanks.

Same rim, bigger profile: Negative: less space for wheel in wheel well and more weight on suspension setup, increase in overall diameter.

Smaller rim with bigger profile: Negative: No increase in ground clearance.

Same rim with wider and higher profile tyre

Bigger rim with wider and higher profile tyre.
I hope you can understand the complete concern and confusion.

Well, as far as I know, the OEM steel rims are 4j for Zen.

You cant have everything. Simple. It's unfortunate, but true. I know how you feel about hitting car breakers. Dad has an NHC Vtec and everytime we ground the car, we shudder.

As GTO said, the best way to avoid this is to take the speed bump sideways.

Now that you know this, I would simply suggest you stick to 145/.70 R13 as that would give you more ground clearance than 155/65 R13. Get an XM1+ in 145/70 R13 and your grip, handling and ease of steering should be taken care of.

mayurpalav · 9th October 2009, 14:24

Friends, I drive my Baleno on 205/45R/16 on stock suspension, as GTO suggested I take proper care while going over speed bumps.
However, one peculiar problem that I have is that, Suppose I am going at a speed to 40-50 and I hit a depression, the tyres scrap the wheel wells.
This even is the car is not loaded. On full load this particualr problem is more prominent, the tyres touching every time there is a small depression in the road. To rectify this I had it checked by sai Service in Lower Parel, They suggested a change in the Struts which I promptly did.
The problem still persists.........One of friends suggested that I put in spacers at the back which will elevate the car by a couple of inches.
Is this a good solution and are these spacers available everywhere ?

Nikhilb2008 · 9th October 2009, 15:49

See, 205/45 R16 is overkill for the Baleno. It WILL scrape the wheel arch. I suggest you either change the tyre or live with it. Spacers are not the best solution.

mayurpalav · 9th October 2009, 16:07

Agreed that 205/45R/16 is overkill,

However will adding spacers make a difference ? Even if temporary ?
Will the tyres still scrape the wheel arch ?

harsha.cs1 · 24th November 2009, 12:23

Hi Friends,

Most sedans like the Accent (my car), OHC, Baleno, Linea etc. suffer from the same scourge - the car bottoms out at bad breakers with 4 persons on board.

In this regard, I wanted to know people's experience with body lift kits or spacers, as many people call it.

While a one inch raise would surely be a boon and sort out the issue of bottoming out, the main issue arising I understand would be the handling.

What we need to consider here are:

How badly is the handling affected - is there too much body roll?
Whether only high speed cornering is affected or even general city driving is affected?
Would it translate into wobbling as well?
Would the tyres be affected?
Would the caster camber have to be reset?

Also, could it have a negative effect if say only the rear suspension if fitted with spacers or only the front suspension? I would believe that it would lead to extra wear of those tyres where the car has not been raised - front or back as the case may be. But anyway the front tyres get more worn out as it is and need to be rotated in any case - so no big deal is what I think - please correct me if i am wrong.

People, do pour in with your valuable thoughts on the issues - and most importantly, if anyone has had the experience of having fitted spacers in a sedan, it would be invaluable!

Cheers,
Harsha

PS: While I did see a few references to spacers on threads relating to ground clearance, firstly, they were passing references and, more importantly, spacers do not belong to the GC threads - the spacers do not increase GC as the axles, which are the lowest part and determine GC, remain at the same height.

rjstyles69 · 24th November 2009, 13:29

From what I have read and seen here and other forums, body lift for a sedan is a strict no no(wonder if anyone has done something like that at all ).You are better off with stiffer suspension setup or upsizing your wheels.

Spacers aren't recommended as such when you love taking corners flat out. They simply foul with the dynamics of the car. I have tried it and has been a scary experience to say.

Here's another existing thread : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...le-better.html .

muralisk · 24th November 2009, 13:54

The problem is with the speed breakers, so why try and modify on the car. Let us see how we can get the concerned authorities to install the speed breaker's as per the norm.

I feel that we should not change the ground clearance on the car. I drive Honda City ZX Gxi and there are very few where in I touch the base of the car. And these are so few, I would never change the ground clearance of my car, which would put the entire stability at risk.

nairrk · 24th November 2009, 14:10

IMO, every car has been built in accordance with the design drawn by the manufacturers and any alteration to the basic may prove bad to the car.

GC in cars varies from model to model. SX4 has got good GC comparing other
sedans in this category? Whereas City has only 160mm and Linea has 161mm.
(Beleive Chevy Aveo also got 181mm)

I was driving my car (fiesta-168mm GC) ) with 4 people on board and never had any bottom scrap incident in any of the speed breakers.
I dont think spacers will help to improve the GC permanantly?

harsha.cs1 · 24th November 2009, 14:46

RJstyles - I understand that you have tried it in the past - did you try it in your scorpio? Ya, getting stiffer shocks I believe could help in this regard and might end up improving handling, as opposed to spacers.
Murali - I agree with you that we should try and bring changes to the roads. However, the unfortunate truth is that it is very hard to bring the change to roads and that it is easier to modify your car.

Having said that I totally agree with Nairrk that the cars are built after a lot of R&D after considering the best dynamics. However, when faced with issues, i sometimes believe that some modifications have to be done, provided only if we are convinced that the advantgages outweigh the disadvantages. And that is the reason behind this exercise.
Yes, I know that Fiesta is better than the OHC and Accent in this regard.

20th September 2009, 18:09	#1
WhiteKnight BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 999 Thanked: 665 Times View My Garage	Suspension Spacers or Tyres with higher profile? Which is better?-Speed breaker issue Okay, many of the cars we have scrap on humengous "made in India" speed breakers. It causes lot of heart ache. Two el-chepo solutions, 1) Adding suspension spacers. The dynamics would be altered for sure as the angles of Lower arms and links change. 2) Getting a set of higher profile tyres than the recommented one- Lot of tyre dealers suggest this. Might work. It might limit suspension travel as the tyres end up hitting the wheel well when going thorough gutters. Question for experts. 1) Which is a better option? 2) If you have tried these, what is your experience? Thank you in advance
	() Thanks

20th September 2009, 18:37	#2
allenzaracer Newbie Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 23 Thanked: Once	Sorry for hijacking your thread dear WhiteKnight, but I do not think I am allowed to start a new thread for a similar question. Moreover it is exactly the kind of information I am looking for. Yesterday, I was test driving the i20 crdi and the car scraped its underbelly on a rather large speed breaker. My thoughts were to get the tyres upgraded from the regular 185/60/R14 to something larger with the same PCD to increase the GC. Experts please suggest a possible upgrade to the mentioned spec. Also do not hesitate to suggest any possible alternative solutions available, to address this problem.
	() Thanks

20th September 2009, 23:50	#3
Nikhilb2008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,196 Thanked: 10,140 Times	@whiteknight --- I suggest higher profile tyres. Not spacers. Spacers are ok if you are going to be in the city 100%. I wouldnt recommend for highway trips and high speed driving. Too risky. Allenzaracer --- Get 185/65 R14. Higher profile than 185/60 R14. However, I doubt if the tyre on i20 is actually 18/60 R14. It is usually 185/65 R14. From 185/65 R14, you could think of getting 185/70 R14 or 195/65 R14 depending on the clearance available. Another thing you can do is to install aftermarket suspension which is stiffer. Of course, this is more of an 'extreme solution'.
	() Thanks

21st September 2009, 18:10	#5
devrajman BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 505 Thanked: 118 Times View My Garage	chicken-egg problem Higher profile tyres tend to make ride softer but cornering, handling and manual steering tightness get effected. Nikhil, im aware of enormous knowledge and experience you have with tyres I have 13" 5j OEM rims in my Zen. And OEM size tyres (145/70R13). Now if im looking for thing like, increase in ground clearance, smoother/light manual steering, better handling (means sharper handling). There is this chicken-egg thing. Here are most of the options on a higher level. can be true for any car. Would be great if you can add your points for each one of the options. Thanks. Same rim, bigger profile: Negative: less space for wheel in wheel well and more weight on suspension setup, increase in overall diameter. Smaller rim with bigger profile: Negative: No increase in ground clearance. Same rim with wider and higher profile tyre Bigger rim with wider and higher profile tyre. I hope you can understand the complete concern and confusion.
	() Thanks

21st September 2009, 18:30	#6
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,547 Thanked: 300,889 Times View My Garage	Please note that taller tyres could affect the ABS system of some cars (check before upgrading) and will increase speedometer error (optimistically) . The best way to avoid scraping is attacking the large speedbreaker sideways, one wheel approach at a time. For some cars, you may also consider a slightly stiffer suspension setup (if bolt on parts are available).
	() Thanks

9th October 2009, 14:24	#8
mayurpalav BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 138 Thanked: 66 Times	Found it atlast................. Friends, I drive my Baleno on 205/45R/16 on stock suspension, as GTO suggested I take proper care while going over speed bumps. However, one peculiar problem that I have is that, Suppose I am going at a speed to 40-50 and I hit a depression, the tyres scrap the wheel wells. This even is the car is not loaded. On full load this particualr problem is more prominent, the tyres touching every time there is a small depression in the road. To rectify this I had it checked by sai Service in Lower Parel, They suggested a change in the Struts which I promptly did. The problem still persists.........One of friends suggested that I put in spacers at the back which will elevate the car by a couple of inches. Is this a good solution and are these spacers available everywhere ?
	() Thanks

9th October 2009, 15:49	#9
Nikhilb2008 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 5,196 Thanked: 10,140 Times	See, 205/45 R16 is overkill for the Baleno. It WILL scrape the wheel arch. I suggest you either change the tyre or live with it. Spacers are not the best solution.
	() Thanks

9th October 2009, 16:07	#10
mayurpalav BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 138 Thanked: 66 Times	Agreed......... Agreed that 205/45R/16 is overkill, However will adding spacers make a difference ? Even if temporary ? Will the tyres still scrape the wheel arch ? Last edited by mayurpalav : 9th October 2009 at 16:09.
	() Thanks

24th November 2009, 12:23	#11
harsha.cs1 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 224 Thanked: 2 Times	Body Lift for Sedans - No scraping at speed breakers Hi Friends, Most sedans like the Accent (my car), OHC, Baleno, Linea etc. suffer from the same scourge - the car bottoms out at bad breakers with 4 persons on board. In this regard, I wanted to know people's experience with body lift kits or spacers, as many people call it. While a one inch raise would surely be a boon and sort out the issue of bottoming out, the main issue arising I understand would be the handling. What we need to consider here are: How badly is the handling affected - is there too much body roll? Whether only high speed cornering is affected or even general city driving is affected? Would it translate into wobbling as well? Would the tyres be affected? Would the caster camber have to be reset? Also, could it have a negative effect if say only the rear suspension if fitted with spacers or only the front suspension? I would believe that it would lead to extra wear of those tyres where the car has not been raised - front or back as the case may be. But anyway the front tyres get more worn out as it is and need to be rotated in any case - so no big deal is what I think - please correct me if i am wrong. People, do pour in with your valuable thoughts on the issues - and most importantly, if anyone has had the experience of having fitted spacers in a sedan, it would be invaluable! Cheers, Harsha PS: While I did see a few references to spacers on threads relating to ground clearance, firstly, they were passing references and, more importantly, spacers do not belong to the GC threads - the spacers do not increase GC as the axles, which are the lowest part and determine GC, remain at the same height.
	() Thanks

24th November 2009, 13:29	#12
rjstyles69 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bengalooru.. Posts: 4,343 Thanked: 842 Times View My Garage	From what I have read and seen here and other forums, body lift for a sedan is a strict no no(wonder if anyone has done something like that at all ).You are better off with stiffer suspension setup or upsizing your wheels. Spacers aren't recommended as such when you love taking corners flat out. They simply foul with the dynamics of the car. I have tried it and has been a scary experience to say. Here's another existing thread : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-a...le-better.html .
	() Thanks

24th November 2009, 13:54	#13
muralisk BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hyderabad, Bangalore Posts: 711 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	The problem is with the speed breakers, so why try and modify on the car. Let us see how we can get the concerned authorities to install the speed breaker's as per the norm. I feel that we should not change the ground clearance on the car. I drive Honda City ZX Gxi and there are very few where in I touch the base of the car. And these are so few, I would never change the ground clearance of my car, which would put the entire stability at risk.
	() Thanks

24th November 2009, 14:10	#14
nairrk Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kannur Posts: 2,441 Thanked: 674 Times View My Garage	IMO, every car has been built in accordance with the design drawn by the manufacturers and any alteration to the basic may prove bad to the car. GC in cars varies from model to model. SX4 has got good GC comparing other sedans in this category? Whereas City has only 160mm and Linea has 161mm. (Beleive Chevy Aveo also got 181mm) I was driving my car (fiesta-168mm GC) ) with 4 people on board and never had any bottom scrap incident in any of the speed breakers. I dont think spacers will help to improve the GC permanantly?
	() Thanks

24th November 2009, 14:46	#15
harsha.cs1 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 224 Thanked: 2 Times	RJstyles - I understand that you have tried it in the past - did you try it in your scorpio? Ya, getting stiffer shocks I believe could help in this regard and might end up improving handling, as opposed to spacers. Murali - I agree with you that we should try and bring changes to the roads. However, the unfortunate truth is that it is very hard to bring the change to roads and that it is easier to modify your car. Having said that I totally agree with Nairrk that the cars are built after a lot of R&D after considering the best dynamics. However, when faced with issues, i sometimes believe that some modifications have to be done, provided only if we are convinced that the advantgages outweigh the disadvantages. And that is the reason behind this exercise. Yes, I know that Fiesta is better than the OHC and Accent in this regard.
	() Thanks