Pity my Esteem

bruce · 2nd September 2005, 17:29

Hi Friends...
......i got this car with an intention of modifying it like crazy.... before doing that , I have been driving it hard for the last 20 days or so.... & going back to my wagon R i feel wagon R is a lot quicker & got a better top speed than the esteem 98 carb with 64 bhp....(WagonR has a bad gearshift)

What could be the problem with esteem?? can a car with 64bhp 1.3 lt can generate only a top speed of 120-130kms max??? (Oh by the way the speedometer shows 180, i wonder why?) overall it's very disappointing..... Can you please help me to identify what could be the problem?

I haven't modified anything as yet.... it gives me good mileage of 12-13kms in the city, tried with high-octane fuels....i intend to rev this car .....but i wanna know inside out of this car first....

Thanks
Bruce

drifter · 2nd September 2005, 18:07

Hey,

How come theres such a huge speedo error? Are you sure about that true speed? How old is the esteem? To me it looks like it needs a good tuneup...when did it go for its last service?

Drifter

aseem · 2nd September 2005, 18:10

In any case a Wagon R will feel faster than a New 85 BHP Esteem as well, due to the tall gearing of the Esteem. In order to get max power you have to really rev the car as opposed to the Wagon R which has short gearing. The torque of Esteem peakes at over 5000 RPM and the torque of the Wagon R peaks much below that, so the Wagon R feels faster than the Esteem. However if you were to drag both cars to the limit side by side, the Esteem will leave the Wagon R in its smoke!

Boom Shiva · 2nd September 2005, 18:26

Why did you buy the carb Esteem? The MPFI has 21 bhp more and gives almost the same, if not better mileage, besides being a newer car. Even if you do full first level mods to your car, it will barely come up to the level of the MPFI model.

bruce · 2nd September 2005, 19:13

Hi Friends,

I read somewhere that with a carb engine you can learn a lot about tuning..... & carb engines from a budget perspective works out i felt :(

by the way Speedo meter has got levels for 180, 200 etc, i just wonder if this car will ever reach that speed in true sense, ...100 ...110...120..130... the steering, plastics, start rattling....

....and for the newbie like me all i can say is that i love the seating position on the esteem....

No i have not given the car a full service for the car as yet..... i was thinking to extract all the problems in the car first & start concentrating from the engine....
I should be doing that!!!

Thanks for your comments!

Bruce

drifter · 2nd September 2005, 20:57

Yeah it is cheaper and simpler to tune the carb esteem than an mpfi esteem...
Viper has done extensive work on the esteem...he can help you out.

Drifter

dragger · 3rd September 2005, 15:32

hey buddy its a smart thing that you got your self the carb esteem...and boom why do you limit his ability to only stage one mods...since he would be overhauling the car..he could go in for the stage 2-3 mods...also as drifter very correctly said it's simpler and easier to tune carb engine's...also the old tuner's who are really good at their work arent very well acquainted with the mpfi engine's their codes their maps and timings...well they are use to working on convetional carb engine's and i think there is no limit to what you can do to a carb engine...dual carbs(webber's) upgraded fuel rail...fuel pump...light fly wheel...the regular porting job piston upgrade's msd ignition kit's...cold air intake,headers and a few other mods when put in together and tuned to perfection can give you an insanely fast car...do let us know what goes on with the car...and please send it for a tune up job asap...cheers...happy revvin...!!

ananthkamath · 4th September 2005, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragger

hey buddy its a smart thing that you got your self the carb esteem...and boom why do you limit his ability to only stage one mods...since he would be overhauling the car..he could go in for the stage 2-3 mods...

Pray someone enlighten me as to what stage 1/2/3 mods are?

Psycho · 5th September 2005, 13:28

Hey Bruce the feel of the car is directly related to the condition of the engine and the tune up, personally though people say that the Wagon R can take on an esteem I do not believe so, a stock esteem is capable of going up to 160.

Especially the model that you have happens to be a carb non power streering version which I think holds way more promise, you can ask Hellcat and Anush on their views, have done up their cars for them, my own stock esteem with only company parts has been faster than most of the newer esteems with a K&N, headers and a freeflow.

As for the mods bit of it, would always suggest to get the basic setup right before going in for performance mods, that way you are able to keep track of how the improvements on your car happen.

kooldude · 5th September 2005, 14:11

i dont believe you man a carb esteem is a fast car to get the most of it you need to redline it and theres no ways that a wagon r can take a esteem my esteem is capable of doing 160

viper · 5th September 2005, 20:20

Hey Bruce,

A carb esteem properly tuned can outclass a Wagon R anytime. It depends on how you drive the car.

Also a well modded car with basic mods can shame a MPFI esteem and yet have room for more mods. A heavily modded one can also take on Honda's and lancers.

Viper

Rudra Sen · 5th September 2005, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce

I read somewhere that with a carb engine you can learn a lot about tuning..... & carb engines from a budget perspective works out i felt

You probaly read it right but that's only theory.
To get into practical class, drive down to meet Psycho. Take a ride on his mechanic's car...talk out your limit of mods..and let all the the hell break loose.

Well an Esteem with curb? I can hear Psycho licking his lips!!

bruce · 5th September 2005, 21:52

Thanks for the positive comments friends!!
Guess what i did this weekend....took the Esteem again to Mysore & Back....
I have driven WagonR & have reached a top speed of 145kms (last i could do on it), since it's new probably it gave me a good feeling (like no rattle whatsoever...)
With esteem by the time it hit 120 (before i used to stop right there , i thought it would explode with all the rattle) i continued ....went for more... shifted gears accordingly... built the speed......ended @ 150kms..... :-) (as i beat my friend on the xing quite easily 3-4 times).....that was the TEAM-BHP comments talking in my mind....

If I shift gears & pull some 4000RPM-5000RPM at every Gear could that cause some damage to the engine? May be i was not doing that earlier.... may be i have sit with one of you sometime....? I have to go to Keshav's Garage sometime!!

Let me tell you onething I'm inspired by this group & more & more Software Professionals are coming....thanks a lot!!

Psycho · 5th September 2005, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudra Sen

Well an Esteem with a carb? I can hear Psycho licking his lips!!

Wanna try me with a MPFI one ???

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce

If I shift gears & pull some 4000RPM-5000RPM at every Gear could that cause some damage to the engine?

Well performance means lower life however greater drivability, it is all in the hands of the driver.

v1p3r · 6th September 2005, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragger

well they are use to working on convetional carb engine's and i think there is no limit to what you can do to a carb engine...dual carbs(webber's) upgraded fuel rail...fuel pump...

Dragger, can you please explain how a fuel rail, stock or upgraded, is used on a carburetted Esteem?

2nd September 2005, 17:29	#1
bruce BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 140 Thanked: 5 Times View My Garage	Pity my Esteem Hi Friends... ......i got this car with an intention of modifying it like crazy.... before doing that , I have been driving it hard for the last 20 days or so.... & going back to my wagon R i feel wagon R is a lot quicker & got a better top speed than the esteem 98 carb with 64 bhp....(WagonR has a bad gearshift) What could be the problem with esteem?? can a car with 64bhp 1.3 lt can generate only a top speed of 120-130kms max??? (Oh by the way the speedometer shows 180, i wonder why?) overall it's very disappointing..... Can you please help me to identify what could be the problem? I haven't modified anything as yet.... it gives me good mileage of 12-13kms in the city, tried with high-octane fuels....i intend to rev this car .....but i wanna know inside out of this car first.... Thanks Bruce
	() Thanks

2nd September 2005, 18:07	#2
drifter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,488 Thanked: 75 Times View My Garage	Hey, How come theres such a huge speedo error? Are you sure about that true speed? How old is the esteem? To me it looks like it needs a good tuneup...when did it go for its last service? Drifter
	() Thanks

2nd September 2005, 18:10	#3
aseem Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,730 Thanked: 441 Times	In any case a Wagon R will feel faster than a New 85 BHP Esteem as well, due to the tall gearing of the Esteem. In order to get max power you have to really rev the car as opposed to the Wagon R which has short gearing. The torque of Esteem peakes at over 5000 RPM and the torque of the Wagon R peaks much below that, so the Wagon R feels faster than the Esteem. However if you were to drag both cars to the limit side by side, the Esteem will leave the Wagon R in its smoke!
	(1) Thanks

2nd September 2005, 18:26	#4
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,055 Thanked: 18 Times	Why did you buy the carb Esteem? The MPFI has 21 bhp more and gives almost the same, if not better mileage, besides being a newer car. Even if you do full first level mods to your car, it will barely come up to the level of the MPFI model.
	() Thanks

2nd September 2005, 19:13	#5
bruce BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 140 Thanked: 5 Times View My Garage	Hi Friends, I read somewhere that with a carb engine you can learn a lot about tuning..... & carb engines from a budget perspective works out i felt :( by the way Speedo meter has got levels for 180, 200 etc, i just wonder if this car will ever reach that speed in true sense, ...100 ...110...120..130... the steering, plastics, start rattling.... ....and for the newbie like me all i can say is that i love the seating position on the esteem.... No i have not given the car a full service for the car as yet..... i was thinking to extract all the problems in the car first & start concentrating from the engine.... I should be doing that!!! Thanks for your comments! Bruce
	() Thanks

2nd September 2005, 20:57	#6
drifter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,488 Thanked: 75 Times View My Garage	Yeah it is cheaper and simpler to tune the carb esteem than an mpfi esteem... Viper has done extensive work on the esteem...he can help you out. Drifter
	() Thanks

3rd September 2005, 15:32	#7
dragger BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: India-Mumbai-Colaba Posts: 350 Thanked: 6 Times	hey buddy its a smart thing that you got your self the carb esteem...and boom why do you limit his ability to only stage one mods...since he would be overhauling the car..he could go in for the stage 2-3 mods...also as drifter very correctly said it's simpler and easier to tune carb engine's...also the old tuner's who are really good at their work arent very well acquainted with the mpfi engine's their codes their maps and timings...well they are use to working on convetional carb engine's and i think there is no limit to what you can do to a carb engine...dual carbs(webber's) upgraded fuel rail...fuel pump...light fly wheel...the regular porting job piston upgrade's msd ignition kit's...cold air intake,headers and a few other mods when put in together and tuned to perfection can give you an insanely fast car...do let us know what goes on with the car...and please send it for a tune up job asap...cheers...happy revvin...!!
	() Thanks

5th September 2005, 13:28	#9
Psycho Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,043 Thanked: 110 Times View My Garage	Hey Bruce the feel of the car is directly related to the condition of the engine and the tune up, personally though people say that the Wagon R can take on an esteem I do not believe so, a stock esteem is capable of going up to 160. Especially the model that you have happens to be a carb non power streering version which I think holds way more promise, you can ask Hellcat and Anush on their views, have done up their cars for them, my own stock esteem with only company parts has been faster than most of the newer esteems with a K&N, headers and a freeflow. As for the mods bit of it, would always suggest to get the basic setup right before going in for performance mods, that way you are able to keep track of how the improvements on your car happen.
	() Thanks

5th September 2005, 14:11	#10
kooldude BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Charlotte,North Carolina Posts: 283 Thanked: 0 Times	i dont believe you man a carb esteem is a fast car to get the most of it you need to redline it and theres no ways that a wagon r can take a esteem my esteem is capable of doing 160
	() Thanks

5th September 2005, 20:20	#11
viper BANNED Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,773 Thanked: 19 Times	Hey Bruce, A carb esteem properly tuned can outclass a Wagon R anytime. It depends on how you drive the car. Also a well modded car with basic mods can shame a MPFI esteem and yet have room for more mods. A heavily modded one can also take on Honda's and lancers. Viper
	() Thanks

5th September 2005, 21:52	#13
bruce BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 140 Thanked: 5 Times View My Garage	Thanks for the positive comments friends!! Guess what i did this weekend....took the Esteem again to Mysore & Back.... I have driven WagonR & have reached a top speed of 145kms (last i could do on it), since it's new probably it gave me a good feeling (like no rattle whatsoever...) With esteem by the time it hit 120 (before i used to stop right there , i thought it would explode with all the rattle) i continued ....went for more... shifted gears accordingly... built the speed......ended @ 150kms..... :-) (as i beat my friend on the xing quite easily 3-4 times).....that was the TEAM-BHP comments talking in my mind.... If I shift gears & pull some 4000RPM-5000RPM at every Gear could that cause some damage to the engine? May be i was not doing that earlier.... may be i have sit with one of you sometime....? I have to go to Keshav's Garage sometime!! Let me tell you onething I'm inspired by this group & more & more Software Professionals are coming....thanks a lot!!
	() Thanks