[CPH]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Comparing turbocharged diesels with naturally aspirated petrols is not right. All the diesels that we get here are turbocharged and in the naturally aspirated form, they can't hold a candle to the naturally aspirated petrols. And if you turbocharge both of them, a petrol and a diesel engine, a petrol would beat a diesel hands down. Alas, there are not many turbocharged petrols avalable to derive empirical evidence.

Petrol all the way.

ps: On a side note, would people have opted for diesels even without the price advantage that it currently enjoys?

In Europe much more Diesel cars are sold than petrols.

And n/a Diesels could be made more powerful (I have worked on technology that makes it possible) than n/a petrol engines if needed. Using a turbo instead is the much cheaper alternative.

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

I'm keen on this and i'm sure so are many of the Swift Vdi Owners on this forum. We have the 75 bhp Version in India.

"The turbo can be sourced from the Fiat bin".. ???

1. Which Upgraded Turbo can we put inside in place of the older one ?

2. Who will do the Re-map & Short free flowing air intake ? You..??

3. Can some one do the above mentioned work in Delhi..?

Thanks

1. and 2. I can sort out, 3. I can't at5 the moment.

But it might be best if you start a thread specifically because we are getting off topic.

[bhuvan_prasad]

Speaking purely from personal experience I'd have to say petrol. This might be due to the fact that we have cars like the OHC and ikon 1.6 (now replaced by a ritz zxi), but I've driven the 1.3MJD in the swift and Ritz, and while its nice and torquey, the rev range is much lesser, and one needs to wait for the turbo to kick in. And I'm not yet bringing in the noise factor, I'm sure a screaming OHC @6500rpms sounds way better than a swift diesel @ 4000 rpm.
I really cannot comment about cars costing more than 10 lakhs, as I've not driven them around much. For cars costing less than 10 lakhs, I derive more of a kick driving, rev-happy petrols.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by bhuvan_prasad

Speaking purely from personal experience I'd have to say petrol. This might be due to the fact that we have cars like the OHC and ikon 1.6 (now replaced by a ritz zxi), but I've driven the 1.3MJD in the swift and Ritz, and while its nice and torquey, the rev range is much lesser, and one needs to wait for the turbo to kick in. And I'm not yet bringing in the noise factor, I'm sure a screaming OHC @6500rpms sounds way better than a swift diesel @ 4000 rpm.
I really cannot comment about cars costing more than 10 lakhs, as I've not driven them around much. For cars costing less than 10 lakhs, I derive more of a kick driving, rev-happy petrols.

A number of my friends thought the same. A few of them had the best sounding engine for affordable money, which was the 5 cylinder Fiat Stilo engine. When they had to change the car they didn't want to consider a four pot Diesel. Why they finally bought a Diesel I don't know, but they aren't looking back.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by CPH

In Europe much more Diesel cars are sold than petrols.

How about USA, the largest car market in the world?

And n/a Diesels could be made more powerful (I have worked on technology that makes it possible) than n/a petrol engines if needed. Using a turbo instead is the much cheaper alternative.

Well, this sounds like some new technology that is available to only a select few. Sadly mainstream car companies does not seem to posses this technology. Any idea why it has not been widely adopted?

BTW, was checking some turbocharged petrol mills. Here are some vital statistics of the Fiat 1.4 Tjet engine:

1.4 T-Jet ---- Power: 120PS ---- Torque: 206N·m ---- 0-100: 9.9s ---- Top speed: 195km/h
1.4 T-Jet ---- Power: 152PS ---- Torque: 230N·m ---- 0-100: 8.2s ---- Top speed: 208km/h

Now, beat that.

src: wikipedia

[CPH]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

How about USA, the largest car market in the world?

Well, this sounds like some new technology that is available to only a select few. Sadly mainstream car companies does not seem to posses this technology. Any idea why it has not been widely adopted?

BTW, was checking some turbocharged petrol mills. Here are some vital statistics of the Fiat 1.4 Tjet engine:

1.4 T-Jet ---- Power: 120PS ---- Torque: 206N·m ---- 0-100: 9.9s ---- Top speed: 195km/h
1.4 T-Jet ---- Power: 152PS ---- Torque: 230N·m ---- 0-100: 8.2s ---- Top speed: 208km/h

Now, beat that.

src: wikipedia

The idea is not adopted because it is too costly in a market that is under strong political pressure in Europe and the USA. BTW the USA is now only second biggest market. The US is increasing on the Diesel side quite a bit. As a matter of fact they were the first to accept luxury cars as Diesel powered cars quite a way back.

I do beat this all the time. It is my profession.

[bhuvan_prasad]

Originally Posted by CPH

A number of my friends thought the same. A few of them had the best sounding engine for affordable money, which was the 5 cylinder Fiat Stilo engine. When they had to change the car they didn't want to consider a four pot Diesel. Why they finally bought a Diesel I don't know, but they aren't looking back.

I can absolutely see that happening, as diesels are far cheaper to run, and as quick and in some cases quicker than petrols. I should have added that so far I haven't been paying my fuel bills, thus the practicality aspect has been omitted. Europe is huge on compact diesels, and that definitely means something.

[BuBooMan]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

sorry but thats wrong info. agree about the skoda 1.8 but not the BMW.

0-100kmph timings of-

BMW 530i - 8.71 secs
BMW 530d - 7.08 secs

BMW 320i - 11.57 secs
BMW 320d - 9.39 secs

Audi A4 3.2 FSI - 8.05 secs
Audi A4 3.0 TDI - 6.68 secs

Source: Autocar India

Whoa! So they diesels are quicker. I must say that after driving both the BMW 530s, the petrol feels immensely more tractable. Unlike the diesel, it does not dump all its power in one big tidal wave and is outta steam and hunting for the next gear all the time. I know the figures paint a rosy picture for the diesels. I would like to respectful disagree. But performance is not all about figures right? The 320s and the A4s i have not driven so cannot comment. Apologies for posting incorrect info.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by CPH

The idea is not adopted because it is too costly in a market that is under strong political pressure in Europe and the USA.

I do beat this all the time. It is my profession.

Come on, you can do better than this. Give us some data. Give us some references on the internet. Claims are not substantiated unless it is accompanied by evidence.

BTW the USA is now only second biggest market. The US is increasing on the Diesel side quite a bit. As a matter of fact they were the first to accept luxury cars as Diesel powered cars quite a way back.

Till, a year back USA was the largest, but thats OT. So what about the current largest market, China? What is the prefered fuel there? Alas, I don't have any numbers for USA, but never seen anything running on diesel, when I used to live there. If you take a % breakup, I guess more than 90% should be petrol. Heck, even in Europe where diesels are loved a lot, petrol cars still contribute to 50% of the sales.

[BlackPearl]

At this point it is petrol. Maybe the scenario can change a few years down the line. As many people have already mentioned, the new age diesels are fast but lack the fun factor of the high revving petrols.

[vikrantj]

Performance for me is comparable to a long distance runner and not a sprinter so I vote for petrol. I need that torque coming at a higher rpm . And secondly I prefer an engine that has a higher redline and not die out at 4500rpm. So its petrol all the way.

[Shan2nu]

Why does F1 still use petrol mills?

Simple, F1 does not allow Forced Induction these days, so no chance for a diesel to even come close to their performance.

Just do s simple test on your self.

Quickly name 5 fastest NA petrol production cars in the world, then do the same with 5 fastest NA diesels in the world (if you can find 5). Now compare their performance.....you'l get your answer.

PS : You can even try this with indian cars.

Shan2nu

[Mi10]

Chill off Guys.

What you are comparing are only cars of different make / model / genre.

When you ask, 'Petrol or Diesel for Performance' ? What I interpret here is a fair, just and more importantly equal comparsion of cars - one Running on Petrol and the Other Diesel).

Forget all manufacturers, Forgot all Techologies and Forget your Jargon on Torque and BHP. Just Consider the below example:

A Car A that has an Inline 4 Naturally Aspirated 1.5 L Engine that runs on Gasoline and
Car B that has a 4 Cyl, 1.5 L Naturally Asipirated Diesel - (without a Turbo).

Which do you think will perform better ?

Obviously Petrol - Simply because its much more refined than Diesel. If you consider the Petroleum Refining Process, Petrol comes out much before Diesel Comes - Meaning A Petrol is much more easily combustible than a Diesel. Which again means - A Diesel without a Turbo and without your CRDI is not going to take up a similar Petrol Engine.

No Point in Comparing Products of different Manufacturers - Its is not going to get the answer for this Question. If Your Diesel is so good on Performance, why not a Diesel powered Aircraft - Now Answer that (lol.. Just Kiddin)

I hope i made my point - Its basically the inherent nature of fuel which makes Petrol engines deliver more perfromance than similar Diesel engines.

[BuBooMan]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

yes, i agree. driving experiences are not considered here. we are only talking about the figures.

but for me, some diesels do give a linear power delivery unlike the sudden wave you are talking about. forget the high end cars, even my scorpio gives a very linear power delivery. and all this, in a very calm & sedate 1500-2500 rpm! whereas, in a petrol, you need to wring its neck. i mean, you need to redline it to get its max power. where in mumbai city do i get a chance to redline a car?

so i feel for practical purposes, we need a car which does not need downshifting much & which will shoot ahead by just pinning down the throttle without demanding the tacho to be above 4500 rpm because in normal circumstances, we never drive at that rpm.

a diesel can do that.

Hmmm. Do do have a valid point there. Been using diesels and petrols for a long time and I still am partial towards the pertols. Oh did you see that link on page 3? The 5 series petrol is quicker!

[CPH]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Come on, you can do better than this. Give us some data. Give us some references on the internet. Claims are not substantiated unless it is accompanied by evidence.

This is technology that has been developed by my own company. At this moment in time I can't give you any more details.

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Till, a year back USA was the largest, but thats OT. So what about the current largest market, China? What is the prefered fuel there? Alas, I don't have any numbers for USA, but never seen anything running on diesel, when I used to live there. If you take a % breakup, I guess more than 90% should be petrol. Heck, even in Europe where diesels are loved a lot, petrol cars still contribute to 50% of the sales.

It is China. In China the car population is still very small, but growing annually by over 4,000,000 a year. The majority of cars are small petrol engines there. The reasons for it is the higher production cost of Diesel engines.

Associates of mine and myself are in talks with Mahindra to import a compact van, which is Diesel powered. We wouldn't even bother if it were petrol.

Austria was the first country many years ago to sell more Diesels than petrols.

Germany followed soon.

The best selling van in the UK once available as petrol only is not available in petrol anymore.

When the Fiat Panda was introduced to the world, the 1.3 M-Jet engine was meant to be introduced immediately to the British market, which was then delayed for over 6 months because the demand in Italy on Diesel engines was so big that they couldn't supply it.

Fact is that big petrol engines getting lesser on the market and more larger Diesel engines are being sold.

In the future only sub 2000cc engines will survive as petrol engines apart from possibly a few super car engines, but they will not make an impact on sales.

[A350XWB]

Voted for Diesel, after watching the WTCC and Le Mans series. And diesels have immense potential to grow, which is untapped even today.