Remedies for a bad running-in

honeybee · 7th April 2010, 14:49

The topic of how to run-in a new engine has probably been discussed to death here. But I want to know what to do in case the car was not properly run in.

I had earlier posted a thread on my Santro engine whining above 110kmph. The car was driven on the expressway when it was brand new. Though I don't remember if it was still during the running in period, it must have been pretty close by it. So there is a chance the long drive/high speed (110+) have somehow affected the running in process of the new engine.

Now my question is, is there something that can be done about it?

aargee · 7th April 2010, 14:58

Are you talking about this thread? If its the same issue, why not continue over there instead of starting a new thread? Anyways, did you try the remedies & the neutral stuff you mentioned? Also, could you let us know how you came to a conclusion that the engine had a bad run-in period? Did the A.S.C tell you that? Is it a engine noise or weird vibrations causing the noise?

CPH · 7th April 2010, 15:10

All engines are pre run before delivery, which is a safety precaution.

When a new cam is installed an engine should be run for 20 minutes at no lower rpm than 2,000rpm.

I never have run in an engine according to manufacturers spec and never had any problems with them.

Most important things are to have enough oil and water in the engine, have the correct oil and let the engine run warm before giving it the stick.

If the noise was due to engine not run in properly the engine would have seized by now.

The cause is certainly of a different nature.

If it is still under warranty refer to the dealer.

sgiitk · 7th April 2010, 15:15

Running in used to be an issue may be a quarter of century ago. Modern engine tolerances are so fine, and materials so good that running-in as it used to be known is no longer required. Just be gentle for the first 1000km or so, that is it. Also, I am told that do not run for extended periods of time at the same rpm. Simplest way on a highway is to lift off every few minutes for a few seconds.

jigbarai · 7th April 2010, 15:19

^^
what do you mean by 'let the engine run warm' before giving it the stick ?
if you are refering to the engine coming to the ideal operating temprature before we put it in gear, it would mean keeping the car idling for a good 3-4 minutes minimum (atleast in Santro)

thats a whole lot of fuel wasted, dont you think so ?

jaysmokesleaves · 7th April 2010, 15:22

There isnt such a thing as bad running in... unless you have put vegetable oil inside the new engine. A new engine is bound to feel tight because of the simple fact that it is all new. Running in means to free it up. So you just drive and drive and push it through the tight spot till it is free enough.

Ever walked into an authorized workshop and seen them rev a new engine to the redline on idle. What do you think that does to the engine!!

If there is such a thing as bad running in then the only possible solution is to change the engine or all its components.... or try BORIC ACID in the engine.

CPH · 7th April 2010, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by jigbarai

^^
what do you mean by 'let the engine run warm' before giving it the stick ?
if you are refering to the engine coming to the ideal operating temprature before we put it in gear, it would mean keeping the car idling for a good 3-4 minutes minimum (atleast in Santro)

thats a whole lot of fuel wasted, dont you think so ?

Giving it the stick is an old European saying originally referring to horses.

What it means to drive it during the warm running at not much over 3,000rpm.

aargee · 7th April 2010, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPH

All engines are pre run before delivery, which is a safety precaution.

Very true

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

unless you have put vegetable oil inside the new engine.

.... or try BORIC ACID in the engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPH

When a new cam is installed an engine should be run for 20 minutes at no lower rpm than 2,000rpm.

If it is still under warranty refer to the dealer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves

A new engine is bound to feel tight because of the simple fact that it is all new.

Guys, I think he's talking about his Santro that he bought when it had clocked 32K & now it has clocked 46K kms. So new cam, engine & warranty does not apply. Correct me if I'm wrong here @honeybee.

honeybee · 7th April 2010, 23:23

@aargee, you are right about the new cam and warranty not being applicable. How I suspect the engine was not correctly run in? I drove the car from Pune to my home at speeds of around 100-120kmph on the expressway. I don't remember if the car had undergone its first service, but I suspect it hadn't.

The car belonged to my uncle who is a very conservative driver. I doubt if he would go beyond 100kmph. So maybe he has never noticed the whine. I discovered it as soon as I started driving it myself over the expressway. By the way when I acquired it, my uncle had already got the engine oil changed.

The reason I am posting this in a new thread is while my interest in this topic is mostly with respect to my Santro, there may be other owners around who may have not run in their car engines properly during the first 1000kms. If there's any way to check or correct it, I guess everybody would benefit.

CPH · 7th April 2010, 23:48

The running in procedures are in place to prevent so called 'high spots'. If the running in needs to be done and isn't done then you won't be able to undo the damage.

If a cam is not run in correctly for the first 20 minutes then you will have excessive lobe wear, which would lose you intially power and can end up in sestruction of the engine.

Also if the whining noise is due to the engine internal then it would have seized by now.

I don't know whether your power steering is electric or hydraulic. If it is hydraulic it might be the cause, which might stem from engine removal.

Shan2nu · 8th April 2010, 00:15

Quote:

I had earlier posted a thread on my Santro engine whining above 110kmph.

Well, since the whining noise is vehicle speed dependant and not engine speed dependant, i dont think its the engine.

It could be the wheel bearings that are making this sound after a certain wheel speed.

Shan2nu

ghpk · 8th April 2010, 02:53

I am also a santro user, and i don't think i drove it on extreme in initial days, but yeah after 1st service, I've done upto 140kmph many times.

Same as your case i was too having some noise at high speeds, Got wheel bearing checked twice, and later found it was a WIND Powered LED Light who's dynamo was giving the whining noise : EEEK

so check for such things too, also ask any mech to re-check all screws and parts are properly tighten.

I strongly believe if it was engine, it should have given you more problems and much more symptoms of something major at even lower speed.
Infact in most cases you don't need to touch MAX speed before engine problem would show up.

ilangop · 8th April 2010, 09:00

Hi, my few cents.
While driving at higher speeds momentarily shift to neutral and let the engine idle while the vehicle still moving. This way you can isolate the engine noise from the wheel bearing noise. My doubt is, had it been due to engine running at higher rpm, you should be able to hear the noise when ever the engine reaches a similar speed. You may also hear such whinning noise through minute air leaks. So check if all windows panes are raised and ensure there is hardly any gap for air to leak from outside.
-Ilango

sgiitk · 8th April 2010, 09:17

Two things: Hyundai gearboxes tend to be buzzy.
Also, as the whine is speed dependent it should not be too difficult to run at the same speed into two different gears. It will immediately tell a lot.

aargee · 8th April 2010, 09:19

@Honeybee - Boy!!! if you're so concerned about this issue, take it to a good H.A.S.S after consulting with our fellow BHPians & I'm confident you'll get this issue sorted out in no time.

7th April 2010, 14:49	#1
honeybee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Dombivli Posts: 3,056 Thanked: 2,139 Times View My Garage	Remedies for a bad running-in The topic of how to run-in a new engine has probably been discussed to death here. But I want to know what to do in case the car was not properly run in. I had earlier posted a thread on my Santro engine whining above 110kmph. The car was driven on the expressway when it was brand new. Though I don't remember if it was still during the running in period, it must have been pretty close by it. So there is a chance the long drive/high speed (110+) have somehow affected the running in process of the new engine. Now my question is, is there something that can be done about it?
	() Thanks

7th April 2010, 14:58	#2
aargee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: TSTN Posts: 6,236 Thanked: 9,642 Times	Are you talking about this thread? If its the same issue, why not continue over there instead of starting a new thread? Anyways, did you try the remedies & the neutral stuff you mentioned? Also, could you let us know how you came to a conclusion that the engine had a bad run-in period? Did the A.S.C tell you that? Is it a engine noise or weird vibrations causing the noise?
	() Thanks

7th April 2010, 15:10	#3
CPH BHPian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: London Posts: 579 Thanked: 35 Times	All engines are pre run before delivery, which is a safety precaution. When a new cam is installed an engine should be run for 20 minutes at no lower rpm than 2,000rpm. I never have run in an engine according to manufacturers spec and never had any problems with them. Most important things are to have enough oil and water in the engine, have the correct oil and let the engine run warm before giving it the stick. If the noise was due to engine not run in properly the engine would have seized by now. The cause is certainly of a different nature. If it is still under warranty refer to the dealer.
	() Thanks

7th April 2010, 15:15	#4
sgiitk BANNED Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,969 Thanked: 4,788 Times	Running in used to be an issue may be a quarter of century ago. Modern engine tolerances are so fine, and materials so good that running-in as it used to be known is no longer required. Just be gentle for the first 1000km or so, that is it. Also, I am told that do not run for extended periods of time at the same rpm. Simplest way on a highway is to lift off every few minutes for a few seconds.
	() Thanks

7th April 2010, 15:19	#5
jigbarai BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 554 Thanked: 29 Times	^^ what do you mean by 'let the engine run warm' before giving it the stick ? if you are refering to the engine coming to the ideal operating temprature before we put it in gear, it would mean keeping the car idling for a good 3-4 minutes minimum (atleast in Santro) thats a whole lot of fuel wasted, dont you think so ?
	() Thanks

7th April 2010, 15:22	#6
jaysmokesleaves Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mostly Mumbai Posts: 1,702 Thanked: 1,452 Times	There isnt such a thing as bad running in... unless you have put vegetable oil inside the new engine. A new engine is bound to feel tight because of the simple fact that it is all new. Running in means to free it up. So you just drive and drive and push it through the tight spot till it is free enough. Ever walked into an authorized workshop and seen them rev a new engine to the redline on idle. What do you think that does to the engine!! If there is such a thing as bad running in then the only possible solution is to change the engine or all its components.... or try BORIC ACID in the engine.
	() Thanks

7th April 2010, 23:23	#9
honeybee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Dombivli Posts: 3,056 Thanked: 2,139 Times View My Garage	@aargee, you are right about the new cam and warranty not being applicable. How I suspect the engine was not correctly run in? I drove the car from Pune to my home at speeds of around 100-120kmph on the expressway. I don't remember if the car had undergone its first service, but I suspect it hadn't. The car belonged to my uncle who is a very conservative driver. I doubt if he would go beyond 100kmph. So maybe he has never noticed the whine. I discovered it as soon as I started driving it myself over the expressway. By the way when I acquired it, my uncle had already got the engine oil changed. The reason I am posting this in a new thread is while my interest in this topic is mostly with respect to my Santro, there may be other owners around who may have not run in their car engines properly during the first 1000kms. If there's any way to check or correct it, I guess everybody would benefit.
	() Thanks

7th April 2010, 23:48	#10
CPH BHPian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: London Posts: 579 Thanked: 35 Times	The running in procedures are in place to prevent so called 'high spots'. If the running in needs to be done and isn't done then you won't be able to undo the damage. If a cam is not run in correctly for the first 20 minutes then you will have excessive lobe wear, which would lose you intially power and can end up in sestruction of the engine. Also if the whining noise is due to the engine internal then it would have seized by now. I don't know whether your power steering is electric or hydraulic. If it is hydraulic it might be the cause, which might stem from engine removal.
	() Thanks

8th April 2010, 02:53	#12
ghpk BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ghaziabad Posts: 870 Thanked: 211 Times	I am also a santro user, and i don't think i drove it on extreme in initial days, but yeah after 1st service, I've done upto 140kmph many times. Same as your case i was too having some noise at high speeds, Got wheel bearing checked twice, and later found it was a WIND Powered LED Light who's dynamo was giving the whining noise : EEEK so check for such things too, also ask any mech to re-check all screws and parts are properly tighten. I strongly believe if it was engine, it should have given you more problems and much more symptoms of something major at even lower speed. Infact in most cases you don't need to touch MAX speed before engine problem would show up.
	() Thanks

8th April 2010, 09:00	#13
ilangop BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Chennai Posts: 992 Thanked: 903 Times View My Garage	Hi, my few cents. While driving at higher speeds momentarily shift to neutral and let the engine idle while the vehicle still moving. This way you can isolate the engine noise from the wheel bearing noise. My doubt is, had it been due to engine running at higher rpm, you should be able to hear the noise when ever the engine reaches a similar speed. You may also hear such whinning noise through minute air leaks. So check if all windows panes are raised and ensure there is hardly any gap for air to leak from outside. -Ilango
	() Thanks

8th April 2010, 09:17	#14
sgiitk BANNED Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,969 Thanked: 4,788 Times	Two things: Hyundai gearboxes tend to be buzzy. Also, as the whine is speed dependent it should not be too difficult to run at the same speed into two different gears. It will immediately tell a lot.
	() Thanks

8th April 2010, 09:19	#15
aargee Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: TSTN Posts: 6,236 Thanked: 9,642 Times	@Honeybee - Boy!!! if you're so concerned about this issue, take it to a good H.A.S.S after consulting with our fellow BHPians & I'm confident you'll get this issue sorted out in no time.
	() Thanks