[Off Roadie]

@ MODS
Do I have to redo the thread with photos hosted by team-bhp or will it be ok if I leave it as it is and henceforth host the new photos on team-bhp, as I keep updating this thread?

Originally Posted by n.devdath

That is one heck of a review OffRoadie. You pretty much echo my sentiments on the Scorpio.
(Yes, he is as stock as he was born, so he is a male for me..!!)

Thank You Sir and a good one about the gender issue.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

nice set of reviews and a nice flowing writing style! i enjoyed reading your revew. very nice title choice too!
enjoy!

These words coming from a distinguished bhpian like you mean a lot.

Originally Posted by Jetblast101

Absolutely amazing review, this is by far the most detailed and unbiased review I have read on this forum. I too am a proud owner of the Scorpio but mine is a 2WD-AT. The issues you mentioned are definitely present but they are small compared to the good bits.

Hello there Jetblast, a 2wd in New Bombay, cant send you a PM, so I have sent you a short note via email, do ponder over it.

Originally Posted by getsurya

Offroadie,

WOW! what an review for an Scorpio. M&M should use this for refinement of thier product.

Wow thats a big one thanks

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

A very very detailed review, and a most enjoyable reading. What I liked most was the honesty with which it was written. Carry on!

Thanks, I struggled to keep it that way and I am glad the readers feel the same.

Originally Posted by Skye1592

Excellent review! 5 star rating from me too
The pics with you sitting to give us a better idea of leg room and the first picture of steering positioning are helpful. Gives us a realistic idea. But I have to admit, the way you posed for them made me laugh

You think the way I posed was funny, hell you should have seen the smile on the security guards faces at the empty parking lot where I snapped the interiors. I kept the camera on the tripod, took a few shots to get the right angle and then set it on timer and ran around to plonk myself in the seat. That photo op took a few hours and I think everyone around thought I may have lost it, which is why I did not do it in my own building compound.

[Skye1592]

Originally Posted by Off Roadie

You think the way I posed was funny, hell you should have seen the smile on the security guards faces at the empty parking lot where I snapped the interiors. I kept the camera on the tripod, took a few shots to get the right angle and then set it on timer and ran around to plonk myself in the seat. That photo op took a few hours and I think everyone around thought I may have lost it, which is why I did not do it in my own building compound.

LOL, I can imagine!
How do you find the ride quality in the 4WD, compared to the 2WD? Are there any differences at all? And on a personal level, why did you buy a second Scorpio? And how have the addition of two speakers in the rear improved the audio quality? If you put in a sub, will that nullify your warranty too?

P.S: How awesome are Dragons? Sigh, I wish I could own a Night Fury, and be a Viking!

[Off Roadie]

Seating comfort, Kitna Deti Hain & Hill climbing Update
Snow managed to fit 6 adults and fly from Mumbai to Bhandardara and back, covering 420 kms at a fuel efficiency of 10.7kmpl. It sounds less but it includes about 60 kms of driving in narrow hilly roads around the bhandardara backwaters, done mostly in 2nd gear.
I should say that when I was positioning the seats in the morning, I could sit comfortably in all 3 rows, the only thing missing in the 3rd row was thigh support which could be overcome by stretching my legs between the 2 captain chairs. I actually sat in the 3rd row for an hour and was quite comfy, but my dad tends to forget that a small bounce in the front seat gets magnified thrice as much and becomes a huge bounce in the last one. If the 3rd row is occupied one has to drive slowly over the bad sections. The rest can be done at full clip.
When fully loaded and starting uphill the M-Hawk needs more effort than the CRDe, I guess the bottom end pulling power of the 2.2 can't match with the 2.6. That said there is no catching her once she gets going.

Originally Posted by Skye1592

LOL, I can imagine!
1How do you find the ride quality in the 4WD, compared to the 2WD? Are there any differences at all?
2And on a personal level, why did you buy a second Scorpio?
3And how have the addition of two speakers in the rear improved the audio quality?
4If you put in a sub, will that nullify your warranty too?

P.S: How awesome are Dragons? Sigh, I wish I could own a Night Fury, and be a Viking!

1 As mentioned the leaf sprung CRDe was less wobbly but the ride was more jarring on bad roads. The coil sprung M-Hawk is better on bad roads but has more body roll and is slightly wobbly. It is a part time 4wd vehicle so 4wd is never engaged on tarmac and it does not really influence handling in any major way.
2 The only options were the Tata Safari and the Mahindra Scorpio, I do not want to spark a debate here so will not comment any further.
3 As mentioned they improve the acoustics only, so people in the second row can hear/understand what is being played when the car is stuffed with luggage and the door mounted speakers get muted out.
4 As per the extended warranty booklet any electrical modification voids your electrical warranty so whatever you do, just make sure that it is ok with the Authorized Service Center in your area.

[TaureanBull]

A very detailed ad lucidly written review. Its good that you havenot resorted to Scorpio appraisal rather you have brought out the shortcomings too.

I was wondering how does The AT version measure up in performance. Have not seen many on TBHP. I just want to know specifically about the reliability and peformance of auto gear box.

Does installing of after market ICE violates warranty of only the audio electric components or the all of it? I see almost everybody going in for an aftermarket upgrade. May also believe that the stock ICE is garbage. My biggest concern is losing the steering mounted controls which I will be least willing to sacrifice.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by TaureanBull

I was wondering how does The AT version measure up in performance. Have not seen many on TBHP. I just want to know specifically about the reliability and peformance of auto gear box.

Does installing of after market ICE violates warranty of only the audio electric components or the all of it? I see almost everybody going in for an aftermarket upgrade. May also believe that the stock ICE is garbage. My biggest concern is losing the steering mounted controls which I will be least willing to sacrifice.

Let me pitch in here. Scorpio ATs have proven to be fairly reliable and apart from isolated issues like the one posted by fellow BHPian Pramod, they go about doing their daily job well.

Coming to warranty by fitting an aftermarket ICE, it would void the warranty of only the speaker wiring and not the entire vehicle/electricals.

Hope this helps.

[Jetblast101]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Let me pitch in here. Scorpio ATs have proven to be fairly reliable and apart from isolated issues like the one posted by fellow BHPian Pramod, they go about doing their daily job well.

Coming to warranty by fitting an aftermarket ICE, it would void the warranty of only the speaker wiring and not the entire vehicle/electricals.

Hope this helps.

I second this opinion, I have been driving the Scorpio extensively around the city and highways. It has done its job without hiccups. IMHO stray issues can crop up in car of any make.

[suneet_ag]

Off Roadie - the front grab handle on the dash is missing - Have they done away with it? I think it was a useful equipment for co passengers?

Or is it missing only in Air bag versions?

[Off Roadie]

Originally Posted by suneet_ag

Off Roadie - the front grab handle on the dash is missing - Have they done away with it? I think it was a useful equipment for co passengers?

Or is it missing only in Air bag versions?

It is missing only in the air bag versions.

[himanshugoswami]

One of the most amazing and comprehensive reviews on TBHP- made for a wonderful read.....thank you for sharing with us and please continue to update.

[_raVan_]

An excellent review Off Roadie! Undoubtedly, one of the best review of Scorpio in here Rated the thread 5*'s. Wishing you many more happy miles with it.

[Prowler]

An excellent review Off Roadie. Your insights on other SUVs are great too.

[ramkya1]

@ Off Roadie: A wonderful read and so near home, written fluently. I've taken one Mhwak 4x4 MT only last month and there's nothing much I can add by way of a review, can't review it better than what you've done Great job and thanks for sharing your experience.

I have different experience on CRDe noise: You said "the older CRDe's were a lot more silent at idle but as you up the pace.....", I had a CRDe for 4 years have done lots of long distance and also Ladakh with HIM and was a lot more noisier on idle than the MHwak; what I love about the Mhwak is the refinement and the reduction in NVH and the electronic gizmos.

That said, 2.6 was torquer; where I could move on 3rd gear, I have to use 2nd now in city traffic, but once the RPM crosses 2.5, the MHWak is better, I think the torque curve is linear.

Wish the door handles inside the cabin are more chunkier and the edges more smoother, they almost cut into your hands now. The Micro Hybrid switch is acting up, will have to take it to the ASC.

@ N.Davdath: That was a useful piece of information. My ICE guy said clipping into the electrical system would not void the warranty, only cutting the wires would. I've changed all the speakers and have an amp, all wires are clipped into, hope this would be OK form Warranty point of view. The original speakers weren't that good.

--Ramky
======

[adzegeek]

Rohan
excellent writeup and thanks for summarizing the experiences of most 4wd scorp owners. I can now point to this thread when some one asks for opinion.

whats with the mud flap colors - does it come standard black at back and white in front now-a-days?

[Off Roadie]

Hello everyone, this bit was due at the end of July 2011 but thanks to a slightly hectic schedule prior to my joining a ship I was unable to type and post this. I have actually typed this on the ship and have emailed it to my father and he is the one posting this on my account so I may not be able to answer any queries you folks may post. I will only be back in early 2012 so the car is going to be run a lot less for another 5 months but I will make up for the loss in mileage once I am back.
Thanks to a Ladakh trip in June which included some pretty serious off roading and judicious use of 4WL at Marismek La and at other random off road temptations I think I can add pretty decent value to this thread and some dragon tips.
First Up
New and old issues update
1) Weak door handle: Remember my grouch with the inner door operating handles feeling like they would break, well one of them finally gave way and the co drivers door would refuse to open, a simple door handle setting at the workshop sorted the issue and all door handles are operating smoothly now so I guess the quality of the handle is not that bad after all, it was the quality of installation/assembling that was bad.
2) Glove Box not closing: well despite the service station claiming that they have tweaked it a bit the glove box still needs some TLC to stay shut. Remember a gentle nudge is the key to a long lasting glove box, slamming it shut will just make you regret it.
3) Post Ladakh: Snow had developed a tendency to go into a spasm every time we switched her off. The whole car just shuddered. Tightening the engine and gear box mounts did not do the trick, finally a whole new mount was ordered and replaced free of charge under warranty and she is behaving fine but there still is a little hint of vibration every time she is switched off. That said dynamically she is just fantastic and the wheel alignment was checked post Ladakh and everything was still well aligned.
4) Wipers: Firstly the rain sensing wipers are pretty decent and they adjust well to the rain but occasionally one may have to swipe the screen manually when there is a light drizzle and the sensor does not receive any water but there may be lots of water droplets on the screen. The right hand side wiper blade began to make a loud rubbing sound when in use, I just swapped the left and right wiper blades and the sound stopped, hope it does not creep up on the left hand side.
5) Co driver’s power window switch just stopped responding one day, same was changed under warranty.
6) TPMS caution: In case you happen to carry out a tyre rotation please be advised that the TPMS sensors do not automatically indicate their new position on the dashboard indicator, so a low pressure indication in your front left tyre will actually be indicating a low pressure in some other tyre which was originally your front left tyre. Do confirm with the service station if they have reset the TPMS system after carrying out the tyre rotation. Just to be sure the next time you are at a bunk deflate a tyre manually and just check that the alarm goes off for the appropriate tyre.
7) ABS: SLE owners rest assured that you have the safer Scorpio. I loved the way my CRDe locked her wheels under hard braking and one could modulate the brakes by controlling the pressure on the brake pedal. Simulating conditions and trying out the ABS had given me a good reassurance of their working but when it was crunch time I was pretty disappointed. First case was while I was speeding down from Rothang pass heading to Manali, I had crossed the nightmarish stuff and it was smooth tarmac all the way down, however accelerating out of a hairpin I was amazed to see a stretch of broken (kacha) road right ahead and I slammed the brakes. For while it felt like I was rolling down hill in a car that had empty metal drums for tyres. The ABS is super sensitive and the whole car just continued forward with just a marginal reduction in speed, fortunately the road was not all that bad and we just bounced around a bit but the bottom line is that the brake pulsation was way too much and the reduction in speed was way too less. At that moment I actually thought that my brakes were not working only when I collected my thoughts a while later and pondered over the incident did I realize what had happened. The brakes behaved similarly when I had to brake hard and perform and emergency lane change on the Mumbai - Pune expressway in the fog one night but I was better prepared to handle the situation then. Oh and I was not slamming the brakes and performing the lane change simultaneously so please don’t think that the ABS helped me perform the lane change, I needed the brakes to shed my speed but they were not all that effective. That said under normal driving conditions I have found the brakes to be perfectly normal in terms of feel and response it was just disappointing when slammed hard at high speeds. One may have to be supersensitive with the break pedal in case of emergencies which will need a lot of composure on the driver’s part as a natural tendency will be to slam the brakes hard. Now please don’t start thinking oh the Scorpio is not good maybe the Safari is better. Both these SUVs are under tyred and I don’t expect the Safari to behave all that better.
8) Mountain Sickness: Well let me just put up the hard facts here, early morning at Sarchu while my dad and I were busy cranking Snow and continuously priming her fuel filter for a good 10 minutes, out comes the Owner of a Fortuner from his tent and fires it up in the first crank, another Innova owner manages to start his car up in 2 cranks, while I just lost count of the number of cranks we gave before she fired up. Dragons just love their sleep when they are up in the mountains. I followed it up with a Mahindra Authorized Service Centre in Mumbai and the company recommends use of only High Speed Diesel and adding Indian Oil Servo - DPPd additive when using the car in cold temperatures.

Marismek Performance:
A brief intro to Marismek La for those who may not be aware, it is higher than Khardung La and is located at an altitude of about 18,600 ft. It is not a motorable road like Khardung although the ITBP plans to make it motorable in the coming years and work is currently underway. It is located Northeast of Pangong Tso and is just 4 kms or so away from the Chinese Line of Control. A 4wd with a low gear ratio is necessary to reach the pass.
It was forums like BHP, BCM and 60kph that had put Marismek in my head, but I had no idea of what I was getting into or should I say onto. Most of the pictures posted show that it is a pretty barren place with a rocky/muddy approach, plus people have usually attempted it in August/September. Attempting it in a lone vehicle in mid June just as the season started was a pretty brave decision. The barren rocky/muddy surface turned out to be a snowed out slushfest with a steep incline and nothing but the army stallion tracks to keep you company but the catch is that these tracks have diff busting boulders lying in the centre and you have no option but to work your way around them and drive uphill on soft snow in 4WL and hope that you don’t get beached. So there I was applying all the 4wd driving techniques I had learnt courtesy youtube and we managed to make it despite my mom chanting, “lets go back this is stupidity”, from the back seat. Full marks to Snow for climbing up in snow and I must say that a 2WD would just not have made it. To explain the conditions further, while driving down I met a group of 3 bikers on their way up and I stopped and chatted with them telling them to take the final stretch slow and steady and that they might have to push their bikes up. I met them at Pangong Tso later on during the day and they were describing how their tyres were sinking in the slush although they were pushing the bikes up and how one of them burnt his clutch while trying to use the engine to assist him in pushing the bike up.
I had read how fellow BHPian Tanveer had some overheating issues while going up Maismek and I did not want to end up stuck in snow with an overheated engine, so I used the golden rule of offroading (courtesy the camel trophy off road driving techniques on youtube) Go As Slowly As Possible and As Fast As Necessary. The really steep snowy/slushy part was tackled in 1st Gear 4WL engine revving at a healthy 2000 RPM and making a speed of about 6km/hr. Snow just pulled along with no fuss and that was the proudest moment of our relationship and I swore that every car I buy henceforth will have a 4WL ratio or it just wont figure on my desirable list.

Sand Driving Tips:
Ensure that you are in 4WL when driving in sand, 2nd and 3rd are the usual gears of choice. Keeping the golden rule in mind, momentum is the name of the game and its time to drive as fast as necessary. The softer the sand the faster you need to drive. Tyre deflation helps you to a great extent but please ensure that you have a good compressor at hand to re inflate the tyres after you have had your fun. Deflate you’re tyres to about 20 psi if you plan to go in the really soft stuff, you can go to a minimum of 15 psi but do remember that you are also reducing your ground clearance. In the event that you do get stuck in sand the best thing to do is reverse back on your own track for as far as you can and come back at a higher speed. Please bare in mind that going back and forth on your own track at a slow pace firms up the ground under the tyres and can give you a good run up to help you clear an obstacle. I did drive Snow in the sand at Nubra Valley and it was fun but I can’t give a hardcore dune bashing kind of report as I was driving around the dunes and not on them, mainly because I had reached the place a little late in the evening and the bulk of the tourist crowd was already thinning out, so I did not want to end up getting stuck in the sand all alone and no body to help me. When driving in sand do note that the sand in some places has a tendency to form ripples under your tyres and the whole car develops a peculiar vibration, please maintain your momentum when this happens, slowing down thinking something is wrong may cause you to get stuck. If you are caught unaware and do get stuck, do remember the back and forth technique. I promise to update this thread with a thorough dune bashing report someday, it is quite high up on my to do list but there are a few other things on the agenda first so I can’t commit to a timeline at the moment.

Kitna Deti Hain Update:
Okay so just a recap my cruising speed is 120 km/hr and Tyre Pressures are 32psi (cold)
The highway average at that speed has been around the 11.2 km/l mark. (I am sure a lighter 2wd would manage 12 km/l)
Her worst figure till date has been 8.9 km/l but let me tell you this, she was the fastest vehicle being driven up Patni Top, so that she could cover Amritsar to Pehelgham in broad daylight.
In the city she returns between 8.5 and 9 km/l with the microhybrid off and a/c on.

Owner Satisfaction: 8/10
Well high marks for being a 4WD actually. Now here’s the thing when it comes to cars one rule does not apply to all, each individual has his/her own requirements, tastes and most importantly budget. I just had an option of 2 cars to choose from, one the Scorpio and the second was the Safari. For a host of reasons the Scorpio just won me over, The initial niggles were the only hiccups but other than that it has been 15,000 kms of joyous mile munching in supreme comfort. The car actually offers a lot of value for money for the price one pays. The only grouch is the minor quality related issues and fit and finish, which is not as good as it should be. For instance a lower priced Innova has the same level of fit and finish as the Fortuner (I know the interior package is the same but all I am saying is that the Innova’s level of quality is as good as the Fortuner despite the 10 lakh price difference). So mahindra should pull up its socks and focus on getting its act together.

[NFS]

Nice review, thanks for the details included. My opinion on the scorpio is a bit different, but you had some neat explanations of what to expect and what is available. Loved your kitna deti hai topics. Also how do you measure the kmpl so accurately that too leg by leg of your journey? do you do a top up at every possible occasion. The question might sound different, but the details of breakup made me wonder how you could get these details.

Glued to your review, learning more on reading your reviews. Keep posting and enjoying your SHE Snow. Cheers!