[Argyll]

Originally Posted by dezrskb

But really !! For such an expensive car, you don't get a spare wheel? Is it a cost cutting measure or is it designed in such a way as to really exclude the spare wheel to contain the weight / aerodynamic profile / whatever technical crap they explain?

I certainly would agree with you dezrskb, however in the UK it is becoming the norm to only supply a small tyre compressor and a can of tyre goop to 'repair' punctures. Not much use if you're in the highlands of Scotland at 10 o'clock at night and you rip the sidewall out of your tyre! Its all about manufacturers wringing every penny they can out of us and its not just the big cars, little Vauxhall Corsa's for example are in the same situation.

Originally Posted by dezrskb

Also about the lumbar support. Again, look at the feature they have chosen to exclude / include to differentiate between the trims !!. Surely for a car of Jaguar's status, no adjustable lumbar support is truly unbelievable !! So I guess if one really needs lumbar support because of back / spine problem, he is forced to buy an upper trim with plethora of few more unwanted features !Pity!

To upgrade to the lumbar spec was a lot of money, something my limited budget couldn't swallow sadly. What I do now is if I'm on a long journey, say 300 miles I build in a couple of extra stops and that has done the trick, but it is really Jaguar penny-pinching again.

[dezrskb]

Originally Posted by Argyll

What I dislike -
. I was also annoyed that I had to buy the spare wheel (don't know if that is an optional extra in India) because if I didn't all I'd get was a tin of tyre goop and a small air compresser - not much use if you rip a side-wall and you're in the back of beyond!

The front seats lack back support on long journeys as there's no adjustable lumbar support in SE spec cars -

Well Argyll, (I may be bit OT here) the situation is not so bad in India. In fact, as far as the spare wheel is concerned, the lower spec and less famous brands have always included the spare wheel. Of late the trend is to provide a full size non-alloy spare wheel - which though stingy, is acceptable and will bail you out of emergency (Toyota Corolla Altis is still available here in India with a full sized spare alloy wheel) and you don't have to exactly limp back home too. I guess as you ascend the tree of famous European brands, most famous and luxury brands come with rain sensor, light sensor, impact sensor, pedestrian sensor, driver attention / exhaustion/ sleep sensor, air quality sensor ,seat heater / cooler and UFO sensor, cloud sensor, terrorist sensor are probably are in production line . But poor spare tire? Oh.. that is going to be outdated technology. You are at the mercy of their service if you don't know how to repair a punctured tire / if you rupture side wall. Sorry, I dont want to discourage you but that will be the situation in India too in coming days I fear.

[Argyll]

It comes to us all dez, you guys will catch up getting less for your money eventually as well.

Perhaps now is the time for you guys in India to stock up on steel wheels that'll fit the many 'other manufacturers' versions built in your country that maybe in a couple of years time won't have spare wheels, except as an option - you could make a killing selling them.

Check out ebay uk under 'Jaguar XF space saver', you'd be amazed at the prices they're asking and that's without a jack, wheel-brace, etc.

And as for 'sensors', they're all over car, even my entry level version.

[Chirag911]

Come to think of it, there's not many reviews of the Jaguar XF 2.2. Why not start one? I feel if a person is willing to go out there and spend some 50 lacs he shouldn't restrict himself to the usual BMW Audi and Mercedes (sometimes even Volvo)
BMW - We know the 530d is a beast. It can cut corners at ease, engine makes a great sound at high speeds. Good subtle looks. Beautiful angel eyes.
Audi - The A6 3.0TDI is an in your face car. Looks you in the eye with its devilish eye looking to tear down whatever comes its way on those smooth highways. Brilliant car to drive.
Mercedes - The E250CDI has a smooth look about her. Her LEDs and her split lights make you want to stare at her for days. The name, the emblem of the Benz turns one too many heads on the roads. Feels more of a chauffeur driven car.

But enough said about these 3 cars. We've seen way too many of these on the road. Where's the love for the cat? The thumping, roaring engine of the Jaguar. The 2.2 liter engine is...... A beast! It will go through anything and everything. Drive it at speeds of 150 kmph + and you'll feel like you're in a countryside doing 80 on your old wagon. The evil car in the segment. The head turning, unique car will give you thrills if it goes past you at quick speeds. The driver can never get bored of her. She's everything he wants. The point from where one person presses the start button, to see the gear know pop out, riding the jaguar symbol on his boot gives him the joy of a lifetime.
People? Jaguar defines luxury. I have not come across one person who hasn't been happy with his jaguar. I'm sure lots of us team bhpians are curious to know more about this car. Let's leave it to the experts to put their views in? I can only tell a little

[FlatOut]

Carrying a full-size spare wheel in Europe is beginning to be seen as a waste of space and weight by manufacturers, especially since the loss of weight allows better emissions figures. The massive size of many wheels today means they take up a lot of space, whereas once they slipped easily into a small space.

Many cars (especially German ones) have 'space-saver' spares for a long time. These are usually just 115 width, intended to get you to the nearest tyre repair place, but the public doesn't really appreciate them either. I'd prefer one to the 'can in the boot' since as someone has pointed out, what happens if you have a damaged sidewall?

By the way, Argyll, I can't quite belive you're quibbling about what the inside of your exhaust pipe looks like! Perhaps if more people knew about Peugeot's four cylinders under the bonnet you'd have more to worry about!

Joking aside, I think that's a far better car than anything German - not what I may have said ten or fifteen years ago. She looks lovely.

[Argyll]

Originally Posted by FlatOut

By the way, Argyll, I can't quite belive you're quibbling about what the inside of your exhaust pipe looks like! Perhaps if more people knew about Peugeot's four cylinders under the bonnet you'd have more to worry about! .

I can see your point FlatOut and each to his own of course, however you better believe it because as far as I'm concerned Jaguar charge top dollar for everything and for a car marketed as 'Premium' quality why should I accept poor paint finishes, even if it is the black paint inside the exhaust trim?

I have bought new cars almost half the price I had to pay for this Jaguar here in Scotland (VW TDI GT) and its finishes when I returned it were as good as the day I bought the car three years previously.

If VW can do it, why can't Jaguar?

[FlatOut]

Are you saying you cleaned inside the Golf's exhaust tailpipe? Gosh! I'm left struggling for words, for once!!

If you're concerned about spending all that money, why not let the first owner spend it for you, have Jaguar service it and iron out any running adjustments and save half the money on a car which has been run in for you for two or three years? You could even afford the rather creamy V6 diesel. With the £15,000 change you could afford a few new tailpipes, or cans of high-temp paint.

[Argyll]

Like I said in my previous post - 'each to his own'.

[FlatOut]

Originally Posted by Argyll

Like I said in my previous post - 'each to his own'.

This is so true, I'm sorry for teasing you! Jaguar is having a little bit of a renaissance at the same time as the Germans are having a little crisis. What is the single biggest difference - for you - between this and luxury German cars?

[Argyll]

Generally very little in my opinion, although their build quality is a bit better - I've owned Merc's, Beemers, Audis and for a short time a VW Phaeton. However the VW was head and shoulders above my model of Jaguar (as well as the other German brands), but its perhaps doing the Jag an injustice as its like comparing apples with oranges.

I would have loved to have bought a V6 or V8 Jaguar, but the depreciation from new is frightening as are the running costs for the V8's. I suppose the bottom line was I hadn't owned a Jaguar in over 15 years and I wanted a complete change.

The cost was reasonable as I negotiated £4 k off the new price and on the motorway is returns excellent MPG (55-60) at a steady 60-70 MPH and insurance costs are very reasonable. I'm half Yorkshire and half Scottish, all my family living around York, so as well as being a frugal Scot I'm a canny Yorkshireman - what my wife's calls 'the meanest combination on the planet!' LOL!

So with that in mind perhaps it'll give you a better grasp of where I'm coming from - when I buy something that's marketed as a 'Premium' brand I expect 'Premium' quality (and this is the second exhaust trim with paint flaking off in 12 months). I can even tell you why the trim paint is peeling - from my experience of restoring modern classic cars they're spraying paint onto bare stainless steel with no suitable primer providing a key.

[FlatOut]

Originally Posted by Argyll

I'm half Yorkshire and half Scottish, all my family living around York, so as well as being a frugal Scot I'm a canny Yorkshireman - what my wife's calls 'the meanest combination on the planet!' LOL!

So with that in mind perhaps it'll give you a better grasp of where I'm coming from - when I buy something that's marketed as a 'Premium' brand I expect 'Premium' quality (and this is the second exhaust trim with paint flaking off in 12 months). I can even tell you why the trim paint is peeling - from my experience of restoring modern classic cars they're spraying paint onto bare stainless steel with no suitable primer providing a key.

Ah, half Yorkshire, half Scottish - now I begin to understand! I wonder how many tailpipes it will take before the dealer tells you they only come in stainless, unpainted?

Would you say the ride and handling is more suited to Britain than German cars? Are they dogged with the ultra-stiff damping of so many modern cars? Jaguars used to be fantastic on British roads. (I haven't driven anything Jaguar post-2000.)

[Argyll]

Being the entry level model my XF was designed for economy / value rather than performance as the suspension does have issues with a firm ride because the car isn't fitted with the higher spec models 'adaptive suspension' (or whatever Jaguar calls it) giving more expensive Jaguars their wonderfully smooth drive. It can be 'vigorous' on our notoriously pot-holed and rough road surfaces in towns. However once on the motorway the suspension more than compensates itself by providing a very comfortable ride.

Part of the issue is I spec'd 18" Velas as I hated the original equipment multi-spoke alloys, which were an inch smaller in diameter. And that's part of the suspension issues, narrow tyre wall height of the 18" wheels generates a firmer ride.

My previous Jaguar was a new XJ6 (Ford built!) 20 years ago, a straight-6 petrol and a reasonably high spec model. I still remember the first time I took it home, a journey of about 20 miles and thinking "if this the comfort a Jaguar gives what must a Rolls Royce be like!" Sadly however over the next 2 years it progressively dismantled itself, with the dealership being obstructive on my warranty claims almost every time. We're not talking about little stuff like exhaust trims, for example, the rear valance over each exhaust crumbled after just about a year due to rust. The dealership attempted to blame me for not looking after the car, citing I had probably hit things on the road causing the exhausts to rub on the valance removing the paint and exposing bare metal. Despite lengthy discussions re the 'damage' Jaguar refused to replace it - and as this was on-going the electrics were giving up the ghost + other stuff. I traded it in as soon as economic sense would allow and bought a Land Rover County 90" Station Wagon.

Apologies for straying from your original question with my final paragraph - just me having a small rantette!

[praveen_n]

Hi Argyll
Just wanted to know how reliable your Jag is as of now.Any issues othere than the exhaust paint issue?
I have booked one (the 2.0T petrol) and am trying to get some heads up on any known issues I may bump into .

Thanks

[Argyll]

Hi Praveen,

The exhaust paint was eventually sorted by myself by removing the 'original' paint, primering it properly and painting it hi-temp matt black - so far not a sign of flaking.

The car itself has performed perfectly, suspension is perhaps a little hard, but on motorways and dual-carriageways its very comfortable. Town driving on certain poorly paved surfaces is a little hard, but that's the price you pay for an entry level XF. It may be just me however the standard front seats cause my back some issues as there's no lumbar support function - my only regret is not spec'ing up to better seats.

I'm intrigued as you mention a 2.0T petrol, I don't think that version is available in the UK - I'd love to hear what its like after your test?

[praveen_n]

Originally Posted by Argyll

Hi Praveen,

The exhaust paint was eventually sorted by myself by removing the 'original' paint, primering it properly and painting it hi-temp matt black - so far not a sign of flaking.

The car itself has performed perfectly, suspension is perhaps a little hard, but on motorways and dual-carriageways its very comfortable. Town driving on certain poorly paved surfaces is a little hard, but that's the price you pay for an entry level XF. It may be just me however the standard front seats cause my back some issues as there's no lumbar support function - my only regret is not spec'ing up to better seats.

I'm intrigued as you mention a 2.0T petrol, I don't think that version is available in the UK - I'd love to hear what its like after your test?

Thanks for the heads up.The seats are ok but not great.I had the same feeling when I test drove the car.
The 2.0T is a new Engine (I guess they borrowed it from Ford) and its refined . 240 HP and 340nm torque.
I will provide more info once I have my hands on leopard