[Thebat]

Originally Posted by sudeepg

I was sad to see you say that this car is a real pain in the city to drive. I think what you mean is that it takes a lot of effort to drive spiritedly in the city compared to the GT.

Nope, the Abarth Punto is actually a pain to drive in the city. When I was on the lookout for a new car I seriously considered the baby Abarth and took multiple test drives of it, the car for me was a pain too drive on the city with the messed up ergonomics, heavy clutch and the uneager nature of the engine. This combined with the presise yet heavy hydraulic stearing makes driving an Abarth in bangalore Traffic a nightmare.

[chase_nt]

Originally Posted by Thebat

Nope, the Abarth Punto is actually a pain to drive in the city. When I was on the lookout for a new car I seriously considered the baby Abarth and took multiple test drives of it, the car for me was a pain too drive on the city with the messed up ergonomics, heavy clutch and the uneager nature of the engine. This combined with the presise yet heavy hydraulic stearing makes driving an Abarth in bangalore Traffic a nightmare.

I agree with you. It would be really cumbersome in metros such as Bangalore where the traffic is very heavy. Its most definitely not the sort of car someone would want to use if they are primarily driving within the city.

Originally Posted by blackbeast

Congratulations on your new possession. I did not read through the entire post hence forgive me if you have mentioned any of the below. My question is
The 145 bhp motor is sweet but didn't the gearbox put you off ? Polo has amazing interiors and doesn't the interiors look spartan in comparison.
Its my sincere request to you, Please get rid of the stickers and bonnet and roof. It looks like after market stickering job and not factory fit.
Happy miles

Thanks blackbeast. The ergonomics, gearbox and plastics are definitely not up to the mark. If you compare them with the Polo then they fall wayyy behind. I bought the car just to satiate my urge of owning something that stands apart from the crowd of regular hatches. The GT TSI was a great car however there was nothing to differentiate it from every other polo on the outside. That was my main driving force. I agree with you that the sticker job does not look like something that should have come out of a factory but I am going to keep the car absolutely stock.

Originally Posted by amiya.c

Congratulations chase_nt
I still cannot believe that you did a trade-off between GT TSI and the Abarth Punto. IMHO the only dilemma with the FIAT cars is that they come with poor ergonomics. For example, nowadays they advertise saying 'for the the love of driving' but the reality is one cannot find a good driving position easily in any of the cars, be it punto, linea or avventurra. I could not find any major difference that those 45 horses could make in the Abarth in a recent drag race video made by motorbeam, the GT TSI was in fact seem to catch up with the Punto near the finish line.

I saw that video by motorbeam quite a few times and dissuaded myself from purchasing the Abarth. However in the end I succumbed because I just wanted something that would stand apart from the crowd. The GT TSI is a lot lighter than the Abarth I think by more than 100 Kilos and in addition the brilliant DSG made the 40 horses additional power that the Abarth has seem like nothing in that video. I totally agree about the poor ergonomics but I was willing to put myself through that just to have this car in my possession.

Originally Posted by GTPower

Awesome review chase_nt. I just got my hands on the punto abarth yesterday and couldn't agree more with your report. Can't wait to take both cars out on to some empty space and give them a through shake down.

Cheers!

Glad you liked the review. Looking forward to your comparison once you put both cars through their paces.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Congratulations on the car mate. Glad to finally have an enthusiast who put his money where his mouth is. As someone above said, give the engine a few thousand kilometers and it will open up. I am sure you will love it even more then, all the more reason to keep the thread updated. Enjoy!

Thanks extreme_torque. Once this car was launched I just had to purchase it. All the quirks that the car had were not a consideration, they were just a foot note. Looking forward to even better times with the car after a couple of thousand kilometers.

Originally Posted by civ4647

Congratulations chase_nt on the only Abarth in Vizag for a long time to come. Its a wonderful choice for an enthusiast. While some people might find it too loud, I personally love the look of the car. Looking forward to seeing it out on the road sometime. Lets meet up whenever you are free. It would be nice to meet another BHPian and a fellow enthusiast.

Thanks civ4647. I am a recluse so you might not find me out and about despite having an attention diverting car. I checked out your garage and really liked what you did with your Civic. I wish I would've known you earlier and I probably would have purchased that awesome civic. I used to be into modding cars at one time however its really tough to find the right places to get the job done in a town like Vizag. Besides I used to end up spending too much money and I thought it was better to just keep changing new cars often than investing heavily on modding Anyway ill PM you my number and we can meet up sometime.

Originally Posted by sriramr9

Also to throw in a word of caution, we all understand this is the same engine as that of the FIRE 1.4 that is practically abarthified and not the MultiAir version.

There are versions of episodes from owners and also on the user manuals claiming to top up engine oil whenever required as per stick level and user judgement.

"1.4 is known to consume oil at a max. rate of 400mL/1000km", also remember seeing a 1.4 FIRE user manual carrying out the same advice.

Could you please check your User manual on the appropriate section and let us know if this recommendation is made for the Abarth version as well.

If that's the case, its better to stock/carry spare oil in the boot at all times, we all do (i have one set of oil/coolant/distilled water stocked at all times).

Thanks for the advice sriramr9. I went through the manual and this is what it says. "The maximum engine oil consumption is 400 grams every 1000 km. When the car is new, the engine needs to run in, therefore the engine oil consumption can only be considered stabilized after the first 5000-6000 km."

It also states "every 1000 km or before long journeys check and top up if required engine oil, engine coolant fluid level, brake-clutch fluid level, power steering fluid level" (but I think this is just a generalization that most manuals incorporate)

Originally Posted by sudeepg

If you are brave enough, then you can consider remapping the car after about 5000 KMS. There are several options in the market and with that gem of an engine, it's just potential waiting to be tapped. If you do consider, try and check out the point and shoot maps.

If a remap is feasible then I would certainly go in for it in the future

Originally Posted by Santoshbhat

Wonderful passionate review there. Its just you listening to your heart when you buy a car without even a test drive. Seems like a paradox to non enthusiasts when you claim to be an enthusiast and buy a car 'blindly' when everyone else will take opinions from the entire town before plonking money on a particular model.

I can totally understand how cars like the Abarth and the GT TSI make people buy them without a TD as I too bought the GT TSI without a test drive. And don't fret, even people living in big cities like Bangalore were not fortunate enough to get test drives for the GT TSI. I bet most GT TSI owners bought it without a TD.

I can relate to some of your disappointments regarding the Punto when it comes to in city driving. I owned a Laura TSI MT and the Polo GT TSI together for time. My 200 bhp Laura was no match to the Polo in the city. The DSG + small turbo petrol is a deadly combination in the city. Punto Abarth is meant for the open roads and at higher speeds it will just eat up the GT TSI I'm sure.

I am so happy to hear that the Abarth has got good stopping power as that is one big weak link in the Polo. Aftermarket solutions will never you the same sense of assurance as a good factory fitted setup. I just wish manufacturers offered an upgraded all disc brake set up as an optional extra for something like 25K or so for performance cars like the GT TSI, Figo etc.. I am sure many customers will lap it up.

Thanks Santosh. You are absolutely right. There is nothing like factory fit and finish. I used to mod my cars at one time but at the end of the day having stuff in your car as factory standard gives you a sense of security that is amiss with add on stuff.

Originally Posted by aveemashfaq

Hmm. I would like to ask you one thing though. Has the extra effort in using the Abarth Punto made you a more attentive driver?

The reason I am asking you is because I own a Maruti 800 which I always drove on state highways and in city with 4 healthily built people on-board and AC on. The kindest word you can use is that the engine feels as if it were being choked to death, working but struggling to do that even. It always had to be in medium high rpm zone and a perfect gear change or you will be slow that even autos get impatient at times. Part of the reason could be the fact that my father NEVER bothered to maintain the car regularly and it's carburettor is all clogged up. The day he transfers it to my name, I have an extended repair job to perform.

Then dad bought a chennai affected Hyundai Getz and we brought it back to life with our own bare hands. It is all documented here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ndai-getz.html

Anyways, while we were repairing the car, we took a self-drive rental car and those cars were so easy to drive. No more perfecting gear changes, no more putting engine on boil. No more planning your next move. And also the chennai traffic on Kanchipuram Highway caused me such nightmares because the cars had only 30cm distance and were doing 80kmph that I was extra attentive to keep minding the gap and check my mirrors that I did not care which pothole I crashed into.

But when I came back and was taking my parents to the shops in M800, I crashed into a huge pothole on a traffic-free road. I was unable to notice that at all. I thought that chennai spoilt me and so when I was trying to concentrate on road surface, I could no longer see the traffic in front of me. My driving style for 7 years is documented here and that driving style is ruined.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...uti-800-a.html

The reason I was thinking was that when I had to wring the engine completely, I was extra attentive and so as I started exercising my brain so much, it was sharp to notice a lot of parameters at the same time. I would plan overtake moves, estimate my speed relative to other vehicles, keep a notice for the speeds I was carrying and the necessary gear shifts, keeping an eye on those stupid pedestrians who want to commit suicide, all of that at the same time.

When I drove more relaxed and sedate, I found myself in other thoughts, relaxing and not having the capacity any longer to concentrate on all the parameters. I was wondering if the same is happening to you.

Is the extra effort required making you a better and more attentive driver?

That's a good question. I have had the car for just 12 days now and I think I have used it just 6 times to date. I am not really sure if I have become a better or more attentive driver in this short span of time. I would like to state that the car feels slow on city streets with all the traffic around and considering the car (GT TSI) I owned prior to the Abarth in similar situations was just dynamite. I think it was me getting highly accustomed to the sort of engine and transmission (DSG) that the GT TSI had since I drove it for 3 years. The Abarth has power, you can get the car into 4th gear in the city at as low as 20 km/hr without the engine knocking or feeling stressed. Its just with overtaking within the city traffic that you need to have a pulse of this car because if you are in 4th gear and at 20 km/hr in traffic then you cant expect this huge car to do wonders unless you get her into the turbo zone by downshifting. In contrast since the GT TSI was an automatic the engine never got into the 4th gear in D mode unless the car was at a speed of 40 km/hr. If I was at 20 km/hr in traffic in the GT TSI....it would be in D2 and hence it had instant boost. The variation in the type of transmission of these two vehicles makes a huge difference in their drivability

[Tojo_GotBhp]

Congrats chase_nt on your latest acquisition. The Abarth looks amazing! You are really luck to own two of the best performance-oriented hatchbacks. Do post more pics.

[Rubbertramps]

Congrats chase_nt. That's quite a decision that you took there. A nicely written review. I am looking forward for a long term ownership review for Abarth from you ! But with 1000 kms a year, i'd have to wait really long !

[vinit]

Congratulations chase_nt for your dream possession. A very nice write up indeed.

I am reading lot of comments on "poor ergonomics" of Abarth or other Fiat cars in general. I dont think that this is an attribute of the car. This is a mix of the driver's body proportions and that of the car's. I own a Linea and never found this problem. In fact, when i was taking TD of various cars, it was the Linea that i found the most comfortable and "ergonomic". The point is whether the car's seating position is ergonomic or not, vary from driver to driver and it is unfair to lebel it as the car's attribute.

[nitninja]

congrats chase_nt.It is really great to see someone owning an abarth in our forum.Mine has done 11xxx kms as of now and should say it is one of those rare cars which can satisfy an enthusiast.I also felt the car to be a bit bumpy at high speeds on a uneven highway which causes a little discomfort.This car gets all the attention on the road and someone recently commented that it looks similar to ferrari.happy driving!

[devansn]

Congrats chase_nt. Thanks for the honest review of the Abarth and the precise comparison between the Abarth and the TSI.

Fiat engines and transmission are known to become much better over time. There should be one dramatic change after around 5K kms and then becomes sweeter by the day. This is from my experience of owning an MJD though, for the last 5.5 years and close to 1 lakh Kms. Curious how the 1.4 matures over time. Please do update this thread.

Originally Posted by Thebat

Nope, the Abarth Punto is actually a pain to drive in the city. When I was on the lookout for a new car I seriously considered the baby Abarth and took multiple test drives of it, the car for me was a pain too drive on the city with the messed up ergonomics, heavy clutch and the uneager nature of the engine. This combined with the presise yet heavy hydraulic stearing makes driving an Abarth in bangalore Traffic a nightmare.

First time you sit in a Fiat, the ergonomics will be found really odd, I agree. But most would find the seating very comfortable in a few days. Things like long clutch travel, window buttons' reach issues, steering too high for driver's seat at lowest setting etc. will continue to be a pain point though. However, the seating as such would become perfectly alright over time. I have been in dense traffic for hours together and have also done 1000+ Km drives a day many times - no back ache, no tiredness whatsoever. My wife is a little less than 5 feet and she is quite comfortable driving the Punto now.

I am not denying the fact that it could have been comfortable from the moment you sit in it though.

Anyone who has driven an MJD and an Abarth, is Abarth clutch heavier than that of the MJD? I would put MJD clutch in the soft category.

[Thebat]

Originally Posted by devansn

I am not denying the fact that it could have been comfortable from the moment you sit in it though.

First impressions matter a lot, especially in cars, where most people form opinions from rather short test drives.

The on road price of the Abarth Punto in Bangalore is around 12 lakhs, for that money Fiat has to make their car better, putting a better engine in a 10 year old car just won't cut it for most buyers if the car isn't comfortable. Yes you can find a better driving position by playing around with the seat but for that you have to live with the car for a while.

[nehaagg]

Congratulations on your Abbie!

The more you drive, the more 'alive' it feels. It has a muscle-car like character, slightly course and rough, semi-restrained, but linking straight to the heart. I have realised (owning one) that it is the minor flaws that give Abbie the character, they act like moon-spots complementing the glow. They are not significant enough to tarnish your love for it, but making you realise that you should appreciate the 'carness' of a car, and not the namby-pamby additions that disconnect you from the experience.

Every time someone posts an Abarth purchase, the motoring culture in India improves by a little bit. Give yourself a well-deserved clap.

P.S.: The only issue for a true petro-head when buying an Abarth should be the colour. Fortunately, I zeroed in on black and made my peace with it, but (wow) your white looks stunning in sunlight!

[chase_nt]

Originally Posted by Rubbertramps

Congrats chase_nt. That's quite a decision that you took there. A nicely written review. I am looking forward for a long term ownership review for Abarth from you ! But with 1000 kms a year, i'd have to wait really long !

Thanks rubbertramps. Glad you liked my review. All the cars that i own remain eternally young as long as they are in my possession.

Originally Posted by vinit

Congratulations chase_nt for your dream possession. A very nice write up indeed.

I am reading lot of comments on "poor ergonomics" of Abarth or other Fiat cars in general. I dont think that this is an attribute of the car. This is a mix of the driver's body proportions and that of the car's. I own a Linea and never found this problem. In fact, when i was taking TD of various cars, it was the Linea that i found the most comfortable and "ergonomic". The point is whether the car's seating position is ergonomic or not, vary from driver to driver and it is unfair to lebel it as the car's attribute.

Thanks Vinit. I have driven several cars however this was the first car that I've been in that made me feel that way. At the end of the day for a true enthusiast it really doesnt matter but for the regular population it would be a deal breaker.

Originally Posted by nitninja

congrats chase_nt.It is really great to see someone owning an abarth in our forum.Mine has done 11xxx kms as of now and should say it is one of those rare cars which can satisfy an enthusiast.I also felt the car to be a bit bumpy at high speeds on a uneven highway which causes a little discomfort.This car gets all the attention on the road and someone recently commented that it looks similar to ferrari.happy driving!

Thanks nitninja. I just wanted to belong to this exclusive club and this is what spurred my decision. My aunt from the states saw the pics of the car that i posted on facebook and said that it reminded her of the Shelby from some angles.

Originally Posted by devansn

Congrats chase_nt. Thanks for the honest review of the Abarth and the precise comparison between the Abarth and the TSI.

Fiat engines and transmission are known to become much better over time. There should be one dramatic change after around 5K kms and then becomes sweeter by the day. This is from my experience of owning an MJD though, for the last 5.5 years and close to 1 lakh Kms. Curious how the 1.4 matures over time. Please do update this thread.



First time you sit in a Fiat, the ergonomics will be found really odd, I agree. But most would find the seating very comfortable in a few days. Things like long clutch travel, window buttons' reach issues, steering too high for driver's seat at lowest setting etc. will continue to be a pain point though. However, the seating as such would become perfectly alright over time. I have been in dense traffic for hours together and have also done 1000+ Km drives a day many times - no back ache, no tiredness whatsoever. My wife is a little less than 5 feet and she is quite comfortable driving the Punto now.

I am not denying the fact that it could have been comfortable from the moment you sit in it though.

Anyone who has driven an MJD and an Abarth, is Abarth clutch heavier than that of the MJD? I would put MJD clutch in the soft category.

Thanks devasn. The car is truly super comfortable on long drives. I drove the car all the way back from Vijaywada on a 390 km drive on the highway and it was more comfortable than the GT TSI on a similar drive. I was expecting to be more fatigued at the end of the long drive especially since this was a manual however i was surprised that it was the TSI that caused fatigue and not the Abarth.

Originally Posted by nehaagg

Congratulations on your Abbie!

The more you drive, the more 'alive' it feels. It has a muscle-car like character, slightly course and rough, semi-restrained, but linking straight to the heart. I have realised (owning one) that it is the minor flaws that give Abbie the character, they act like moon-spots complementing the glow. They are not significant enough to tarnish your love for it, but making you realise that you should appreciate the 'carness' of a car, and not the namby-pamby additions that disconnect you from the experience.

Every time someone posts an Abarth purchase, the motoring culture in India improves by a little bit. Give yourself a well-deserved clap.

P.S.: The only issue for a true petro-head when buying an Abarth should be the colour. Fortunately, I zeroed in on black and made my peace with it, but (wow) your white looks stunning in sunlight!

Thanks nehaagg. You are absolutely right. I saw the photos of your "abbie" on the main review while i was finalising the purchase of my Abarth. Congratulations on your acquisition. I really wanted to purchase the black Abarth however i decided against it because minor finger nail scratches are very clearly evident in the black shade. Im the kinda guy who gets OCD even if i spot such minor scratches on my ride. I also felt that the contrasts between the black plastics on the bumpers are better visible when its a white shade. The flipside is that its really tough to keep a white car spotless. Im having to spend an additional 15 mins to clean this car when compared to my red ex GT TSI.

[nakul0888]

Congrats on the scorpion.

I would say that with discounts you got on the car this is one sweeeeet deal. Almost as sweet as a 13 lakh laura tsi active. But do you think the overall package can be improved with a Free flow exhaust, better wider rubber and a short throw shifter? How about a BOV to hear that turbo noise as well? If you think about it these mods get rid of a lot of flaws of the abarth with the exception of the crap gearbox limiting the torque output. Thinking about buying an abarth and doing these mods have become an obsession for me now. What do you think? Got any idea how the car will fare with the mods and how much this would cost ?

[Suraj25]

Congrats on the car Chase_nt and welcome to the Abarth club! Just completed 3.5k kms in mine and I can almost guarantee you that the throws become less rubbery as the kms pile up. I know I'm a minority but I just love the driving ergonomics of the car and actually prefer it over my Vento.
I agree with most of your views but it seems like you're not too happy with the car.. maybe you were expecting too much cause of the hype? Even I was not sure if I made the right decision(vs the GT TSI) for the first few days but the car just won me over! I'm so glad I got an explosive manual that I can enjoy thoroughly. Hope the same happens with you too. Drive the car more! :P

Originally Posted by nakul0888

But do you think the overall package can be improved with a Free flow exhaust, better wider rubber and a short throw shifter? How about a BOV to hear that turbo noise as well? If you think about it these mods get rid of a lot of flaws of the abarth with the exception of the crap gearbox limiting the torque output

I had planned most of these mods but I think it's better to omit the BOV. I know the sound it just too addicting but it'll probably do more harm than good in this case(uneven idle, etc) and Its better to not compromise on reliability. A FFE and remap should be just perfect even though the gearbox might be at its limits. I doubt the gears are automatically gonna start shearing if the torque exceeds 212Nm :P

[Sree73]

Congrats chase_nt !!!. The Fiats are ideal enthusiast's machines and the build quality is wonderful. The doors giving the 'thud' sound while closing gives a re-assurance of the safety.
Wish you a very very long and wonderful ownership with this Italian beauty and enjoy the happy miles to come.

[aveemashfaq]

About the torque limitations on the gearbox, since I am a mechanical engineer, I can add a bit of science here. The peak rated torque for the gearbox is 200NM and yes in a punto Abarth it is handling 212NM. Let me explain.

If you look at a torque curve of a car (the green line printed on the graph after your car is put on a dyno), you get a rough idea of how much torque is being generated and where.Your Y-axis readings are to the right. So, refer to torque generated with the scale given on the right.


(All credits to the respective owners)

The car in the graph has the same engine but with remapping and using RON98 petrol (in simple terms costly petrol) and being run on a cold day.

As we can see, the maximum torque is being generated at 3000 rpm. Anything above that or below that and the torque decreases. So, the car is being put on the limit of stress at 3000 rpm.

Assuming that your car has the same shape of torque curve with smaller peak value, then your car is momentarily exceeding it's rated torque value for maybe 0.5 second when the car is at 3000rpm. Now, if you re-map the car, the car will exceed the limit for 1 second when you are accelerating.

The question is, can the gearbox survive at all if the rated torque limit is exceeded. Answer, factor of safety. In mechanical engineering, we don't design anything to the absolute limit. We give a factor of safety which is how much safe your design can get. So, if you have a factor of safety of 2, it means that even though you can put 1000kg weight on it, with safety in mind, you are telling him that you can only put 500kgs maximum load on it. And generally speaking, for a gearbox, factor of safety is 2 - 3.

Why do we put factor of safety? We put it because there might be some defects in manufacturing a part. So, we put a Factor of Safety. Apart from that, there are other factors considered such as how the load variation takes place. For that, we take a factor of 4. Apart from that, we don't consider the load for complete breaking. We consider that the part is failed if it bends which means a factor of 2. You get the idea. So, a gearbox with 200NM of rated torque, if you turn one end of shaft in one direction and other end of shaft in other direction, the gear teeth breaks off at 4000 NM (not a typo).

For a shaft, factor of safety is not that high and so the shaft might break at a rated torque of 1000NM.

In short, it is not dangerous to give it more torque. The only problem is that, in worst case scenario, your car gearbox will start to yield prematurely. When I say prematurely, I mean that instead of running for 10 lakh kms as it is originally designed, it will run only for 5 lakh kms and fail. If it fails at 5 lakh kms, you have to open the gearbox and replace the guide sleeve because that is the part that usually gives up first. Replacing it will cost you maybe 10,000 for the part and the labour.

In short, don't fear a big bang and gearbox failing if you exceed the limits. Even after exceeding the limits, the gearbox will still work. All you need to do is accept that if your gearbox fails, you will not be able to select a gear. For example, your gearbox 1st gear guide sleeve might fail and you will have to drive car in 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th to take it to service center and change it.

Apart from that, one safety precaution you should be taking is that, remember your torque curve and don't put the car for maximum time in the peak torque zone. In short, don't cruise at 3000 rpm.

[prkothan]

"Poor ergonomics" is certainly a subjective matter and its being over stated here. I have drivem TJET for 55K kms and I was absolutely in love with that. Now I own Honda Amaze - driven 50K. Ergonomics of honda amaze is no way better than Linea. One thing is great in Amaze is running cost.Truly amazing.