[Anuj 6227]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

First ask MASS to check the source of sound, with special focus on belt. Once it's established that belt is the culprit then try swapping with other part and see if it solves the issue.

It's not a big secret that Dzire G13B used two types of belts, with a cutoff date, it should be mentioned in the parts manual. So it's carelessness of MASS, more than ignorance IMHO.

Regards,
Shashi

Ok, I will visit MASS once this pandemic is over. I just hope that no damage has been done, if I am using the wrong belt.

Thanks again to you all for your help.

I will keep you posted on any new developments.

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

There are two types of belts used in Swift/Dzire G13B.
1. Which come under Root part number 17521-86500, type 4PK815, all the part numbers mentioned below are interchangeable:
-17521-86500
-17521M75M00
-17521M75M10
-17521M86500
-17521M86520

2. Which come under Root part number 17521M86530, type 4PK827, all the part numbers mentioned below are interchangeable:
-17521M86530
-17521M86560

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

It's not a big secret that Dzire G13B used two types of belts, with a cutoff date, it should be mentioned in the parts manual.

Originally Posted by Anuj 6227

Ok, I will visit MASS once this pandemic is over. I just hope that no damage has been done, if I am using the wrong belt.

Thanks Leoshashi for the detailed post regarding root part number. I had a look at the Swift (includes Dzire as well) parts manual. There are 2 part numbers for the G13B water pump belt, one has cut off date till September 2005. The belt that Bhpian Anuj 6227 is using in his Dzire belongs to pre September 2005 root part number.

Anyways it's best to get it checked by the mechanic who fitted the belt in the first place. As per my knowledge a slightly squeaky belt won't cause any harm in the short run.

Attaching a photo of the parts manual:

[Anuj 6227]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

Thanks Leoshashi for the detailed post regarding root part number. I had a look at the Swift (includes Dzire as well) parts manual. There are 2 part numbers for the G13B water pump belt, one has cut off date till September 2005. The belt that Bhpian Anuj 6227 is using in his Dzire belongs to pre September 2005 root part number.

Anyways it's best to get it checked by the mechanic who fitted the belt in the first place. As per my knowledge a slightly squeaky belt won't cause any harm in the short run.

Attaching a photo of the parts manual:

Attachment 2024675

Hi Chiranjitp,
Did you change the raditor hoses(upper + lower) in your swift ? The other day i was talking to one of my mechanically inclined friend and he suggested me to get the hoses changed as a preventive maintenance, although it has nothing to do with the problem i am having.

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by Anuj 6227

Did you change the raditor hoses(upper + lower) in your swift ? The other day i was talking to one of my mechanically inclined friend and he suggested me to get the hoses changed as a preventive maintenance, although it has nothing to do with the problem i am having.

I haven't yet changed any radiator hoses in my Swift, though I did get the coolant changed last year. My mechanic physically examined the hoses & told me that they are in good condition.

I did however get the radiator hoses changed of our 99 OMNI, few years back as preventive maintenance. So, you can definitely get the hoses replaced as preventive maintenance, take a look at the thermostat valve as well (if needed replace it).

P.S- Guwahati was back to Lockdown V1.0 from 1st July. Few days back I took out all the cars, lined them up & clicked some photos.

Garage mates of the Swift:





A edited photo courtesy my friend:

[Anuj 6227]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

I haven't yet changed any radiator hoses in my Swift, though I did get the coolant changed last year. My mechanic physically examined the hoses & told me that they are in good condition.

I did however get the radiator hoses changed of our 99 OMNI, few years back as preventive maintenance. So, you can definitely get the hoses replaced as preventive maintenance, take a look at the thermostat valve as well (if needed replace it).

P.S- Guwahati was back to Lockdown V1.0 from 1st July. Few days back I took out all the cars, lined them up & clicked some photos.

Garage mates of the Swift:

Attachment 2032094

Attachment 2032095

A edited photo courtesy my friend:

Attachment 2032096

Hi Chiranjitp

Recently, I changed the spark plugs on my car, when I noticed that there was oil on only one of the spark plug thread, (first one from the passenger side)the ceramic part was completely dry and there was no oil on the plug boot as well, I also inspected the plug well and it was bone dry as well.
The first thing which occurred to me was the tappet cover gasket and the spark plug gaskets (after reading your experience). But then I thought that if the oil is leaking from spark plug gasket then it should leave traces on rubber boot and spark plug well, like in your case, which were absolutely dry in my case. Is there something else which is causing this ??

Thanks

[tanaysn]

Lovely article chiranjitp. Your Zen story took me back to my college days where I had the same story with a M800.

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by Anuj 6227

Recently, I changed the spark plugs on my car, when I noticed that there was oil on only one of the spark plug thread, (first one from the passenger side)the ceramic part was completely dry and there was no oil on the plug boot as well, I also inspected the plug well and it was bone dry as well.

Sorry, don't think I will be able to properly help you here. In my case we found oil in the HT cables, didn't check the spark plugs. My mechanic did clean the plugs while fitting the new spark plug O rings, though I am not sure whether there was any trace of oil in the spark plugs.

Originally Posted by tanaysn

Lovely article chiranjitp. Your Zen story took me back to my college days where I had the same story with a M800.

Thanks tanaysn, glad you liked the thread.

[Anuj 6227]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

Sorry, don't think I will be able to properly help you here. In my case we found oil in the HT cables, didn't check the spark plugs. My mechanic did clean the plugs while fitting the new spark plug O rings, though I am not sure whether there was any trace of oil in the spark plugs.


Thanks tanaysn, glad you liked the thread.

Hi Chiranjitp,
Do you experience blowby on your Swift, when i take off the oil filler cap (on idle) I experience a continuous warm blow of transparent clean air from the hole, I also experience the same thing with the dipstick hole, but unlike the oil fill hole the air more or less disappears one then engine has reached its operating temperature. Is this normal ?

Thanks

[rmz1088]

Hey Chiranjitp, Enjoyed reading this thread..very detailed and beautifully written..made an awesome Sunday morning read..

I could totally relate to some points you have made..I am one of those who bought a new 2 wheeler in college, but honestly buying a car was not in my mind at all.. Wish I had read something like this 10years back..

Anyways, I was privileged enough to buy a car on my own after starting a job and it was none other than the Swift. Again, like you, I loved the Swift from the time I laid my eyes on it..but my engine of choice was diesel as I had fallen for the mad turbo kick @2000 rpm..I had bought it pre-owned from true value..Literally bought the first car I took a TD..It had 70k on the odo and I added another 70k and it was a pleasant ownership overall..I sold it when it started to show signs of ageing and also since I had made up my mind to buy a new car as my highway usage was about to increase significantly..However, over the 5 years of ownership I had made special bond with the car and it made me very emotional the day I said final goodbye..Attaching a picture below of my beloved Swift..

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by Anuj 6227

Hi Chiranjitp,
Do you experience blowby on your Swift, when i take off the oil filler cap (on idle) I experience a continuous warm blow of transparent clean air from the hole, I also experience the same thing with the dipstick hole, but unlike the oil fill hole the air more or less disappears one then engine has reached its operating temperature. Is this normal ?

I hadn't bothered checking about these 2 things until your post . It seems there is a bit of warm air coming out from the oil filler cap & the oil dipstick. I suppose this isn't perfectly normal, but there are no other issues like oil consumption, smoke from exhaust etc. We have a new Eeco in our family (similar G12 engine), will check in that car & update here.

Out of curiosity I checked in our Ecosport TDCi as well (2016 model & 72k km done) for blow-by. There was no air coming out from the oil dipstick, but there was a bit of warm air (more so than the Swift) coming from the oil filler cap. I cross checked with BHPian Tanveer02 who owns a 2019 Figo D (done 15k km), same thing in his car as well. Apparently a bit of blow-by is common in Ford diesel engines.

Originally Posted by rmz1088

Hey Chiranjitp, Enjoyed reading this thread..very detailed and beautifully written..made an awesome Sunday morning read..

Anyways, I was privileged enough to buy a car on my own after starting a job and it was none other than the Swift. Again, like you, I loved the Swift from the time I laid my eyes on it..but my engine of choice was diesel as I had fallen for the mad turbo kick @2000 rpm..I had bought it pre-owned from true value..Literally bought the first car I took a TD..It had 70k on the odo and I added another 70k and it was a pleasant ownership overall.

Thanks rmz1088, glad you like the thread. The Swift diesel is a legend, a car that appealed to both the head & the heart. The 1.3 DDiS was a gem of an engine, was quick (post 2000 RPM), reliable & returned awesome fuel efficiency figures. We had a 2012 Punto with the same engine, even in the heavy Punto it was fun.

A long highway drive & a bit of redlining

Last month I took the Swift to my workplace which is around 500km from Guwahati, I generally use public transport as I have an official car there (hence no use for my personal car). This time due to Covid-19 I decided to take the Swift, had 2 colleagues to accompany me as well. The Swift completed the journey without any hiccups, the chilling AC kept everyone comfortable as well over the 10 hour long journey.

Found an open stretch of road, decided to redline the engine in 1st & 2nd gear. It always thrills me to redline this engine, the old school engine revs to 6800 RPM with the speedo needle going past the 100kmph mark in 2nd gear. The old school G series engine has a certain charm & soul about it, which is kind of lacking in new gen engines.

Here's a video of the same:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7cNbcU2POA

Some photos en route:





Swift posing with my friend's 91 M800:





For the return journey I decided to take a different route, this time along the north bank of the Brahmaputra river (Guwahati is situated on the south bank). This time I was driving solo, this 600km journey happened to be my longest solo drive till now. The 14 year Swift again behaved properly, didn't give any problem. The music system helped immensely in this long (very long by my standards) solo journey, the music system also helped to drone out the rattles.

Crossing Bogibeel bridge:





Beautiful scenic roads with negligible traffic :









Hills of Arunachal Pradesh in the background:



Crossing Brahmaputra river for one final time:

[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by Anuj 6227

I experience a continuous warm blow of transparent clean air from the hole, I also experience the same thing with the dipstick hole, but unlike the oil fill hole the air more or less disappears one then engine has reached its operating temperature. Is this normal ?

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

We have a new Eeco in our family (similar G12 engine), will check in that car & update here.

Finally got time to check the Eeco (belongs to my uncle). I am quite relieved to say that it's same in the 1 year old Eeco as well (5k km on the odo). I was a bit worried that there's something wrong with my Swift (& your Dzire). There was a bit of warm air coming from both the oil filler cap & oil dipstick, though slightly lesser compared to my Swift. Anyways, it seems like this behavior is normal for a G series engine .

Odo reading of the Eeco:

[Anuj 6227]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

Finally got time to check the Eeco (belongs to my uncle). I am quite relieved to say that it's same in the 1 year old Eeco as well (5k km on the odo). I was a bit worried that there's something wrong with my Swift (& your Dzire). There was a bit of warm air coming from both the oil filler cap & oil dipstick, though slightly lesser compared to my Swift. Anyways, it seems like this behavior is normal for a G series engine .

Odo reading of the Eeco:

Attachment 2061139

Thanks for the update, after your findings I can now breathe a sigh of relief. I also did some research and found out if the engine is not reducing/eating engine oil, one doesn't need to worry about back compression/blowby.
I also think this kind of air is pretty normal for these engines.

Thanks

[chiranjitp]

Annual service & time to renew the Registration

My low running means the car hardly runs 10k km per annum, so oil change is done once every year. The last time I tried 5W40 full synthetic engine oil & was very happy with the performance. The car had run around 8k km since the last oil change & there was no noticeable drop in oil level (there is a slight risk of increased oil consumption when switching to synthetic oil in old engines). So, even for this oil change I went with 5W40 fully synthetic engine oil, this time got Mobil 1 engine oil.

The engine oil I went with:



The car otherwise was running fine, except for two small issues. The boot strut had become a bit weak, so got them replaced. The other issue was a squeaky AC belt, which I thought would be solved with adjustment or at worst case scenario would need a new AC belt.

Swift first gen boot strut part number:



I went to my FNG to get the Swift serviced, first oil change was done & boot struts changed. Then we turned our attention to the squeaky belt issue, on first look it seemed like a simple case of a worn out belt. But a closer inspection revealed that the AC compressor wasn't perfectly aligned with crankshaft pulley & the belt was getting damaged in one side. My mechanic told me to get it checked by an AC mechanic as putting a new AC belt won't solve the issue properly. My Swift has an aftermarket Subros AC compressor (which the previous owner fitted), in place of the OE Behr make compressor. Changing over to Subros compressor is a very common modification in this generation of Swift, the Behr make compressor is notorious for going bad soon.

Oil change in progress:



Old oil condition:



The damaged AC belt:



So went to the Subros dealer to get this issue checked, the technician there also was a bit confused as to why both the pulleys didn't line up perfectly. As per him (which I verified later), the Subros aftermarket compressor is a direct fit here & doesn't require any alteration. Finally it was decided to remove the compressor & check every thing thoroughly. Do note there was no complaint regarding AC cooling in my Swift, the AC performance was brilliant & hence I wasn't very eager to remove the compressor (& in process release the gas). Anyways the compressor was removed, first we checked the compressor bracket, that was found to be genuine & of correct dimension. After a bit more close inspection, the mechanic concluded that the idler pulley was a bit off & a washer/extender would need to be fitted on the idler pulley. I did want to get the genuine idler pulley (which I think would be of the correct dimension & won't need a washer/extender), which unfortunately wasn't available in the nearest MGP store. Bought a new MGP AC belt, put a washer in front of the idler pulley, fitted everything back & checked the alignment. The belt aligned perfectly, so problem solved (or so I thought). While we were at it, the AC mechanic flushed the whole system & filled back AC gas. Checked the cooling & compressor cut-off, found everything okay. It was the month of January, not the perfect time to check the effectiveness of an AC.

At Subros dealer:



AC belt part number for G13B Swift:



All was fine was for 2 days, then on the 3rd day there was no cooling, though the compressor was turning over. I furiously called the AC mechanic, he came over to my place & checked the AC system. He surprisingly found the AC gas to be low, topped up the gas & asked me to monitor the AC cooling. Sure enough, 3 days later there was no cooling. By this time I was really frustrated, a small issue of a damaged AC belt turned out to be this big. Better would have been to put a new AC belt, drive & replace the belt every year.

Anyways there was no option of going back, so had no option other than to get it fixed. A thorough inspection revealed that the gas was leaking from compressor back plate , that plate wasn't removed or touched during what all was done previously. Long story short, had to get an used compressor back plate. Thankfully after that the AC gas hasn't leaked, almost 3 months have passed since then.

The Compressor back plate:



But now that we are entering peak summer time, I have observed that the AC isn't cooling as effectively as before. Can anyone help me as to what could be wrong? The compressor is hardly 3-4 years old, the cooling was brilliant until we released the gas during the belt fiasco. I am not very well versed with solving car AC problems. Our 99 Omni doesn't have AC, Punto didn't require any AC work during her 103k km stay with us, Ecosport's AC is going strong at 85k km without needing any servicing. My ex Zen had a R12 based AC system, so never tried to service that system. In short this is the first time I am doing any AC related work.

Swift turns 15 & it's time to renew the registration

Swift turned 15 this January & with that the registration was set to expire. One of the reasons to get this Swift from Delhi was to make sure that she could live past the 15 year mark. Had she been on DL plates, she would have been turned into scrap metal by now, all thanks to the stupid NGT rule. Thankfully no such stupid rule here (at least for now), so have extended the Swift's registration validity for 5 more years (i.e till 2026).

I personally did all the work to get the fitness done, didn't take help of any broker (it helps that the DTO is only 2km away from my place). Frankly speaking, except the need to run from one counter to another counter, it's a very easy job. The car was inspected by the officials, they only matched the registration number on the chassis with that on the registration card, nothing else was checked. The total cost including printing fee of a new RC was a shade over 1k, which is very cheap in my view. In Assam, tax is only collected one time (i.e for 15 years), so for subsequent renewals we only have to pay the registration renewal charges. A new RC came via post few days later, with validity till 2026. So kind of mission accomplished, one car saved from the stupid NGT rule .

New RC:



The current odometer reading:

[vigsom]

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

AC compressor wasn't perfectly aligned with crankshaft pulley & the belt was getting damaged in one side. the idler pulley was a bit off & a washer/extender would need to be fitted on the idler

If you see the pic of the old AC belt, the alignment is off w.r.t axis of the belt. All that was needed was to re-align the mounting of the compressor without releasing the refrigerant. That might have solved the problem of misalignment in the first place.

washer/extender would need to be fitted on the idler

The one washer in the original compressor assembly is put to ensure that the gap between the idler pulley and the clutch disc is within specs. I don't have the spec handy - maybe LeoShashi can help you with that info from the service manual. A different washer is generally used as a stop gap arrangement if the disc and the idler pulley have scoring marks which alters the gap. This scoring happens after extended usage , typically 10 years.

I am surprised that you found a leak on the compressor back plate; never heard of this before.

Anyways, since you mentioned that it was cooling fine for 3 months and not that effective now, please do the following :

1. Connect the gauges and see what pressures you see on the low and high side. Does it show a typical 35psi low and 170 psi high with compressor in operation? This pressure varies from one compressor to the other and is also based on ambient temperature, and in your case, I don't suspect the compressor performance at all since it isn't too old.

2. Check if the AC condenser fan is working at its full speed. If not, tap the body of the motor and see if the speed increases. If this happens, have the condenser fan motor serviced. Condesner fans begin to start misbehaving after a few years due to carbon build up on the motor commutation

3. If after the condenser fan operation is verified to be fine, whenever you feel the AC isn't cooling well, immediately pull over, and check if the compressor clutch disc is engaging and disengaging properly with engine rpm at approx 1500rpm. In your case, you can simulate this since your G13 engine has a cable throttle and you can raise rhe engine by manually twisting the throttle lever at the throttle body.

Ideally, the cutoff - cut on time of the compressor clutch should be a few seconds. If the cut off - cut on happens normally, it means your evaporator coil temperature is dropping to its set value which means the system is fine and it is only air flow inside that isn't fine.

One of the common "oversights" of most AC folks is not to pull vacuum for approx 30 minutes, and also perform a 10 minute vacuum hold test before charging refrigerant. They just pull vacuum for a few minutes and once the gauge reaches full vacuum, they stop evacuation and immediately charge gas. Improper evacuation leaves some non condensibles inside and that shows up in performance over time.

Do report on the findings, please.

[chiranjitp]

Thank you vigsom for your expert advice .

Originally Posted by vigsom

If you see the pic of the old AC belt, the alignment is off w.r.t axis of the belt. All that was needed was to re-align the mounting of the compressor without releasing the refrigerant. That might have solved the problem of misalignment in the first place.

Yes, in hindsight only re-alignment of the compressor/changing the idler pulley would have solved the issue. But my AC mechanic wasn't sure of the problem (or so he told me), hence had to check everything.

Anyways, since you mentioned that it was cooling fine for 3 months and not that effective now.

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my previous post, the AC performance wasn't the same after doing the AC work, even 3 months back. But since 3 months back it was not that hot, the AC performance seemed normal to me. Now since the summers are here, the weak AC performance is easily noticeable.

One more thing I forgot to mention in my previous post, is the change in idling RPM with AC on. Previously when the compressor used to kick-in, the idle RPM would rise to 1100 RPM. Now after the AC work, the idle RPM hardly reaches 1000 RPM. The idling RPM without AC/when compressor cuts out is same at 750 RPM. I did ask about this just after getting the AC work done, he told me this is normal & nothing to be worried about.

1. Connect the gauges and see what pressures you see on the low and high side. Does it show a typical 35psi low and 170 psi high with compressor in operation?

This I will get checked when I visit the AC guy & let you know the values.

2. Check if the AC condenser fan is working at its full speed. If not, tap the body of the motor and see if the speed increases. If this happens, have the condenser fan motor serviced.

Radiator fan is working perfectly, Swift G13B has a single radiator fan (unlike a Zen/Esteem which has a separate fan for the condenser). The engine doesn't overheat as well.

3. If after the condenser fan operation is verified to be fine, whenever you feel the AC isn't cooling well, immediately pull over, and check if the compressor clutch disc is engaging and disengaging properly with engine rpm at approx 1500rpm. In your case, you can simulate this since your G13 engine has a cable throttle and you can raise the engine by manually twisting the throttle lever at the throttle body.

The compressor in the Swift G13B engages with a loud clicking sound (like most Marutis of that time), I did pull the throttle cable to raise the engine speed, the compressor did cut off normally.

Ideally, the cutoff - cut on time of the compressor clutch should be a few seconds. If the cut off - cut on happens normally, it means your evaporator coil temperature is dropping to its set value which means the system is fine and it is only air flow inside that isn't fine.

Here I am a bit confused, the compressor engages with a clicking sound when I switch on the AC. But I don't think it cut off, I idled the car with AC for around 2 minutes, couldn't hear the clicking sound & neither did the radiator fan stop spinning.

One of the common "oversights" of most AC folks is not to pull vacuum for approx 30 minutes, and also perform a 10 minute vacuum hold test before charging refrigerant. They just pull vacuum for a few minutes and once the gauge reaches full vacuum, they stop evacuation and immediately charge gas.

I believe the AC mechanic performed the vacuum test properly, still will again ask him about it.