[sandeepmohan]

I must admit that the experience of living and driving in Netherlands was what piqued my interest more than the car itself.

I guess the car you have is essentially the direct replacement for the old F30 328i. They just call it a 318i. Identical technical specifications for the engine with several modern bits thrown in to make it relevant today. Beautiful blue shade.

It must be a huge relief to move into the serene, calm nature of Netherlands, coming from a country as small as Singapore, where I wonder if there is anything called a countryside.

Developed World Governments are subsidizing electric cars to get more uptake on them. Its only a matter of time that every tax thrown at gas combustion cars will eventually make it to EV's. In the end, personal transport is a luxury and is essentially adding congestion to our roads. That's not going away because someone buys an EV. I think the purpose of going EV is different and is down to a personal choice and what your use case is going to be.

I live in a small country too, in terms of population size. What stands out is population density in your part of the world. That explains why you have such a dense road and excellent public transport network. You need it. New Zealand has no concept of intercity trains! They don't exist. We sort of get away with it due to a small population size. 3 cities contribute to the main economic activity (Auckland, Christchurch and Wellington) of the country and those cities have a decent public transport network. However; as you described, I've faced cancelations in the last minute. I check my phone app for a bus thats supposed to arrive. I walk to the bus stop only to find that in that 10 minute walk, they canceled the trip! I hate it when that happens. Derails all your plans. I have no choice but take the car or call an Uber. Personal transport is almost a given here. While you can manage with public transport, you end up taking a lot more time to cover a certain distance. End to end coverage is not great.

While it looks intimidating from those pictures you shared, I guess once you get used to it and stay focused on your driving, you will naturally take into account cycle paths and pedestrians.

Thanks for sharing. This was a wonderful read.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by G20Rider

Well I did have the DigiD, but I was missing another important document at the time of purchase, the Dutch driving licence. I had not completed the conversion process yet and without a Dutch DL, a visit to RDW is a must. I was also required to get a BRP extract showng BSN from the muncipality.
There was a bit of confusion at dealership too, as they were not sure about this and calls had to be made to the RDW to confirm this. Apparently its not everyday a chap walks into a dealer and goes "I want to buy a car, but I do not have a licence"

No, it must have been something else. There is absolutely no requirement have a drivers license to own a car in the Netherlands!

The requirements are:
You need to be over 18 years of age
You must be resident in the Netherlands (ingeschreven in de basisadministratie van de gemeente)
The complete car registration papers ( which could be plastic or paper)

That is all, when you go to a RDW authorised office to get it done you will need I.D. too.

Kids who are taking driving license, often buy a car before they take their driving exam, so it is pretty normal.

The one thing is though, it is pretty difficult to insure a car without the primary driver, which tends to be the owner, has not got a drivers license. Without insurance the car can not be driven and can not be on the public road. So you can’t keep it in front of your house for instance. You will still need to have a valid APK and pay road tax, unless you suspend the license.

By the way, the APK plicht of annual inspection after the fourth years, becomes every 2 years after 25 years and no APK is required for cars over fifty years.

Today I am taking my 40 year old Mercedes W123 for its bi-annual APK.

Jeroen

[G20Rider]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

It must be a huge relief to move into the serene, calm nature of Netherlands, coming from a country as small as Singapore, where I wonder if there is anything called a countryside.

Well moving from Singapore to Netherlands needs a thread on its own, it was such a drastic change and experience was a mixed bag. Both are polar opposite in everything.
All in all Singapore is that reliable serious person who is all work, but no play. He does everything perfectly and never breaks down. But you can’t ever have fun with him. Netherlands is like that laid back friend who is fun with good intentions but sometimes need a push to get things done.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

New Zealand has no concept of intercity trains!

Interesting and thanks for the explanation. Most blogs or videos about New Zealand is about driving far off into some pristine natural parks. Never seen or read about how life actually works within the cities and your words gives a small glimpse into it. Consider a thread about unknown aspects of that country (Will be useful since lots of Indians these days are considering New Zealand as their potential destination)

Originally Posted by Jeroen

No, it must have been something else. There is absolutely no requirement have a drivers license to own a car in the Netherlands!

I think you misunderstood what I meant. Yes, a license is not a requirement to buy a car, but having a local Dutch license is a requirement to complete the registration process online. And that’s the reason I had to visit the RDW in person although I had DigiD. This I’m pretty sure about since I personally called RDW and they explained it this way. And my dealer also got the same explanation when he called. But I do not know if it only applies to a foreign national though.

[G20Rider]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

By the way, the APK plicht of annual inspection after the fourth years, becomes every 2 years after 25 years and no APK is required for cars over fifty years.

Today I am taking my 40 year old Mercedes W123 for its bi-annual APK.:

Just 10 more years to go and your W123 is free from RDWs clutch forever.
I’m actually curious as on what exact checks are done by the RDW and how thorough it is? I can’t find the finer details on the internet. I can imagine they check the basic visible things like emissions, tyre thread depth, lights etc, but does it go anymore deep than that?
Or for example can a inspection help uncover a hidden issue in the suspension or the drivetrain?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by G20Rider

Thanks Jeroen. Well I did have the DigiD, but I was missing another important document at the time of purchase, the Dutch driving licence. I had not completed the conversion process yet and without a Dutch DL, a visit to RDW is a must. I was also required to get a BRP extract showng BSN from the muncipality.
There was a bit of confusion at dealership too, as they were not sure about this and calls had to be made to the RDW to confirm this. Apparently its not everyday a chap walks into a dealer and goes "I want to buy a car, but I do not have a licence"

Originally Posted by G20Rider

W
I think you misunderstood what I meant. Yes, a license is not a requirement to buy a car, but having a local Dutch license is a requirement to complete the registration process online. And that’s the reason I had to visit the RDW in person although I had DigiD. This I’m pretty sure about since I personally called RDW and they explained it this way. And my dealer also got the same explanation when he called. But I do not know if it only applies to a foreign national though.

Correct, my bad. I meant registration. I found it odd, because the rule is you don’t need a driving license. So I called the RDW and learned the following:

You could not use your Digital-ID as you have not done the Wifi-ID check. Because in order to complete that check you need a Dutch Passport, or a Dutch ID card, or a Dutch driving license.

As you are (I assume) an Indian national you needed this extra paperwork showing BSN number. For EU residents it is simpler. They can show up with just EU id and won’t need the additional proof or residency.

So I learned something new today, never to old I guess.

I would recommend the you do the Digital_ID check as soon as you receive your Dutch Driver license. Because certain functions, especially those with around privacy, can only be checked via Digital-ID when checked. For instance I use my Digital-ID to log in on my GP and hospital portal. Without the check I might be able to see appointments, but I can’t access my medical records.

Originally Posted by G20Rider

Just 10 more years to go and your W123 is free from RDWs clutch forever.
I’m actually curious as on what exact checks are done by the RDW and how thorough it is? I can’t find the finer details on the internet. I can imagine they check the basic visible things like emissions, tyre thread depth, lights etc, but does it go anymore deep than that?
Or for example can a inspection help uncover a hidden issue in the suspension or the drivetrain?

Correct. But I will still keeping doing the bi-annual APK check even if it is not mandatory. It is important to have someone else take a close look at your car every now and then.

Most APKs are done by RDW certified garages and workshops. The mechanic signing off on the APK needs to be a certified “keurmeester”. There are all sorts of requirements on the tools and instruments they use. In terms of accuracy, calibration etc.

I have just returned from the APK of my W123. It failed because of high CO. Different story, but what was also interesting was that one of my headlights was slightly off. I asked them what could have caused it. The same mechanic as two years ago, did this year’s APK. He knows my car and me. He told that during an inspection of the RDW it was found that the floor in one of their bays was not completely level and they are only allowed to use one other bay and lift. So probably my headlight has been a little off for a while!

APK, or MOT is an EU requirement. Originally primarily aimed at emission checks, but these days also includes a lot of safety related issues. I can’t find an English translation of the APK rules. It is pretty comprehensive.

Emission are checked
All suspension components are checked for wear and tear and play
Brake test is performed
Brakes are visually inspected where possible on wear and tear.
Proper functioning of all outside lights is verified
They will check all seat belts for wear and tear and proper functioning.
The car is checked for structural integrity. Which usually means they look for (too much) rust on the chassis, but also on for instance the brake lines.
They will check window wipers, demesting fans
ETc. Etc

It is a pretty comprehensive check. But for instance they don’t check the engine and the transmission as such. So an APK pass means at that moment in time your car complied with legal emission and legal basic safety requirements.

The RDW checks all these garages and workshops continuously. They will get several visits per month on average. What happens is when the APK is done by the mechanic, he or she will enter the details in the RDW database. It will immediately flag if they can release the car, or whether an inspection by a RDW representative is required. In case of the latter, they are not allowed to move or even touch the car. The RDW representative will visit within an hour and check that the car is indeed in full compliance. If he/she is not satisfied with the work of the APK Keurmeester, obviously it needs to be rectified, but that garage will get more visits from the RDW until they are sure of the correct quality of workmanship again.

The RDW can do an APK as well and they also do for instance the checking on cars being imported. As all of my cars have been imported they all got checked over by the RDW as part of the import process. Also, after major modification of cars, or changing the colour of your car, putting a new engine in, you will need to get it checked by the RDW and they will update your car registration papers accordingly.

Jeroen

[carthick1000]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

As you are (I assume) an Indian national you needed this extra paperwork showing BSN number. For EU residents it is simpler. They can show up with just EU id and won’t need the additional proof or residency.

I presume you mean EU citizen and not EU Resident.

The rules set by what RDW means an identity document (identiteitsbewijs) is slightly different from what the Government assumes as one.

RDW approves: https://www.rdw.nl/particulier/voert...an-een-persoon
Government approves: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...-identificeren

So a residence permit (vreemdelingsdocument/verblijfstitel) inspite of being an ID with NFC chip, is not approved by DigID / RDW. However the government approves residence permit as a valid ID. I know from the past when I bought my BMW, few years ago ,from a neighbour of mine we transferred the car online (Like in our backyard over a cup of coffee ) and at that time, only Drivers license (Rijbewijs) was accepted by RDW. We used the NFC chip reader in our phone to do the transaction. It seems from the above links, RDW still dont accept verblijfstitel as ID. I guess the most important reason being residence permit (Verblijfstitel) does not contain the citizen number (BSN) on it.

Originally Posted by G20Rider

Just 10 more years to go and your W123 is free from RDWs clutch forever.
I’m actually curious as on what exact checks are done by the RDW and how thorough it is? I can’t find the finer details on the internet.

Here is the link to handbook what the APK Keurmeester checks for passenger cars (in Dutch btw) : https://apk-handboek.rdw.nl/personenautos

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by carthick1000

I presume you mean EU citizen and not EU Resident.
I guess the most important reason being residence permit (Verblijfstitel) does not contain the citizen number (BSN) on it.
rl]

Yes, EU citizen.

You only get a BSN when you register your permanent address with your city council. Until such time you can not register a car in your name either. You can have a verblijfsvergunning without a BSN.

Usually all these things work pretty well in the Netherlands. However, when we returned after 9 years living abroad back to the Netherlands I had a huge problem.

A few weeks prior to our moving from Delhi back home my wife and I spend a week or so in the Netherlands, to start arranging some things, get our house ready etc. We also bought my wife a second hand Ford Fiesta. As neither of us was resident in the Netherlands we could not transfer the registration. So we just left it with the dealer for a few week. When we arrived back we went straight to the gemeentehuis to register again for residency. The same afternoon we transferred the Fiesta into my wife’s name.

However, we also found out that for some reason my resident status was still not updated. It took the powers that be almost 6 weeks to update my status. Which was a bit of a pain for a number of transaction I needed.

The council was very apologetic, they called me every week to update me and send a huge bunch of flowers when my new residency status was finally completed.

We found out it was all due to the fact I had gotten a new passport a few weeks before leaving Delhi at the Dutch embassy. Apparently, the process of applying outside the Netherlands for a new passport blocks other systems. Whereas just about everything in the Netherlands works on line, the foreign service still sends paperwork across the world to its embassy’s!

So it took weeks for all the paperwork that needs doing was done and my status in the BPR could be updated.

You have lived in the Netherlands for some time. You know that most things work really well, but if you get caught up, something out of the ordinary you are dead meat for the civil servants! They will be very apologetic, but nobody can do anything. The process needs to take its time.

Jeroen

[G20Rider]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

APK, or MOT is an EU requirement. Originally primarily aimed at emission checks, but these days also includes a lot of safety related issues. I can’t find an English translation of the APK rules. It is pretty comprehensive.

Im happy to hear these are checks with some substance, unlike many checks in my home country which is just there for namesake.

Originally Posted by carthick1000

Here is the link to handbook what the APK Keurmeester checks for passenger cars (in Dutch btw) : https://apk-handboek.rdw.nl/personenautos

Thanks a lot, this is pretty graphic (in a good way ). And you are right about the reason being BSN not present on residence permit. I needed a BSM extract due to this.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

You have lived in the Netherlands for some time. You know that most things work really well, but if you get caught up, something out of the ordinary you are dead meat for the civil servants! They will be very apologetic, but nobody can do anything. The process needs to take its time.

This very well summarised my short experience till now. Unfortunately I has already been caught up two times in my short stay of around 6 months till now and I feel the need to vent now and its wildly out of the threads topic, so brace.

In first case, I stayed at Schiphol for first month once I arrived. During my initial registration at the expat center, Amsterdam I provided our marriage certificates as well as my child's birth certificate along with all other documents. My relocation agent was very specific to explicitly provide these documents even if they didn't ask (In the hindsight, it was probably because my issue is a systemic issue and the agent knew about it). They said its all done and we will all be registered with municipality within few working days. I specifically asked about marriage and birth certificated and the officer confirmed all is good. And I left it at that.

A month later, I moved to my current place in Rotterdam and tried to register at Rotterdam municipality, the staff found that our marriage as well as child's birth certificate has never been registered. She had no explanation and its almost impossible to get Amsterdam expat center on phone. So next course of action was to have a new appointment with Rotterdam municipality and next available appointment then was 1 month later.
They provided with us some forms to prefill and bring and in there it was written I need to bring passport OR residence permit. I turn up a month later with my residence permit and the officer said "I need your passport ". I pointed out the instruction and they said it was wrongly printed, they will fix it, but I need to take another appointment which was again a month later. 1 Month later I submit all documents and it took them further 70 days to actually update in the system.
And all this time, I was unable to apply for a lot of stuff like child care subsidy for example since system didn't know we were all related. We even got a warning letter from the IND saying we were supposed to register the marriage (probably due to dependent visa).

In second instance, I submitted my application for license conversion to the municipality and they where supposed to forward it to RDW. A month later I haven't heard from them yet and I called RDW and they said "We haven't got any application in your name from municipality!!".
I go straight to municipality with the receipt I had and I waited for 45mins when they find out what happened. Finally someone comes out and say "We dont know what happened, but RDW only got your original Indian DL, but not the actual application ".
Municipality while not saying explicitly seemed to say "we send it, not sure what happened at RDW" and RDW says "Municipality didn't send it".
Now they resend the application to RDW and I wait for further 3 weeks. Post 3 weeks RDW sends a mail to me. Looks like when municipality send the application the second time, they forgot to attach one of the required document from the tax office (which I had submitted in my first appointment) . They wanted me to send it via post which I did and a further 10-15 days working days to process it.
All in all, a process that usually take no more than 3 weeks took more than 3months.

And how to forget my experience with banks. I had opened an ING account and transferred some funds in to help us settle in. My first Dutch salary was credited too. One fine day the ING mobile app stops working. and I was completely locked out of my account for next one month in a new country with only few euros to spare. I had just received my debit card and I needed the app to activate it. I need app to even log into the internet banking website. The app is a single point of failure. And the worst thing is nobody in ING knew what was happening. I called ING helpline, they redirected to branch, I goto branch and they ask me to call the help line. But nobody sees any issue. Funny thing is I only needed to look the reviews section of ING app in play store and it was flooded with people complaining about the same thing, but it took a further two weeks for ING to acknowledge there is an issue. I finally managed to get my debit card activated from backend, withdrew all money and deposited into a new ABN account. it took further two more weeks for the issue to be actually fixed and app to be reactivated. and in these time, response I got from ING was "We are working with our external vendor, but we don't have a timeline when it will be fixed".
First thing once the app worked was to go and hit the close account button.

I have worked with technology departments of large banks in Singapore extensively and an event like this will have serious ramifications. A bunch of customers not able to access their funds would be the "drop everything and fix it moment"
For example DBS, a large bank had a recent outage in digital services for couple of days and it was in the national news for the next one week. In the end, the CEO apologised and an additional capital requirement of $930 million was imposed, all for a couple of days outage in digital services!!

Now in any large systems, things go wrong and process breaks. But what I found problematic is that there was no tracking system for most applications or complaints. I submit an application and I usually have no visibility to whats happening. Only way to check status is to call and ask. This is in contrast to my experience elsewhere where almost every application will come with an application number which is trackable from an online system.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by G20Rider

Interesting and thanks for the explanation. Most blogs or videos about New Zealand is about driving far off into some pristine natural parks.

Yupp. New Zealand is mostly rural. The total State Highway Network is 11,000km. Of that, <10% are multi lane motorways. Most roads are sealed though undivided by a barrier in the middle. Think of the highway network as what India once used to have, back in the day. Single lane carriageways. While it may not be safe, there isn't enough traffic to justify building multi million dollar motorways all over the country.

While kiwi land is about 6 times the size of The Netherlands, our population is a tiny fraction of yours. Just 5 million! Drive 60km North of Wellington and it feels like civilization has almost come to an end. There are more sheep than humans.

I'll pen down my experience when I have time. Happy to answer PM's for the interim.

[Sweet Chariot]

congratulations on your 318i. i quite envy that you got a G30 as i live in Eindhoven, netherlands and got my self a F30 318i. i styled it with a MBadge and Mblack grill. i am suprised by your mileage figures as i recall i usually get 15.7 + in city and 18+ in highway driving. may we should have a T-BHP meet up with our BMW 318's. :-)

[G20Rider]

Originally Posted by Sweet Chariot

congratulations on your 318i. i quite envy that you got a G30 as i live in Eindhoven, netherlands and got my self a F30 318i. i styled it with a MBadge and Mblack grill. i am suprised by your mileage figures as i recall i usually get 15.7 + in city and 18+ in highway driving. may we should have a T-BHP meet up with our BMW 318's. :-)

Congrats on ur ride.
A Netherlands T-BHP meet? Count me in!!