7 Days old BMW 320i- Sensor issue: solved!

diki24 · 29th December 2008, 19:16

Just heard back from the dealer. They say that the initial diagnosis is showing a problem with Exhaust Cam-Shaft sensor. It might have malfunctioned. Though this is the initial diagnosis and he will have to open the car tomorrow and see whats the extent to this and what are the next steps to this.
Now i am wondering, is this Sensor malfunctioning acceptable in just 7 days of delivery. Wouldn't they have checked everything before the delivery?? I believe there would be many such sensors, say 10 atleast, what if some or the other keep malfunctioning regularly and on the middle of the deserted highways?
Also how does this affect the warranty and what does it mean for me as a customer that, he will have to open it tomorrow and see, what it is.
what should be my stand on acceptance level?? Guys i am confused and worried, please help.

jasher26 · 29th December 2008, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by diki24

Just heard back from the dealer. They say that the initial diagnosis is showing a problem with Exhaust Cam-Shaft sensor. It might have malfunctioned. Though this is the initial diagnosis and he will have to open the car tomorrow and see whats the extent to this and what are the next steps to this.
Now i am wondering, is this Sensor malfunctioning acceptable in just 7 days of delivery. Wouldn't they have checked everything before the delivery?? I believe there would be many such sensors, say 10 atleast, what if some or the other keep malfunctioning regularly and on the middle of the deserted highways?
Also how does this affect the warranty and what does it mean for me as a customer that, he will have to open it tomorrow and see, what it is.
what should be my stand on acceptance level?? Guys i am confused and worried, please help.

hey dikki, really sorry to hear this, read your thread yesterday and the update right now, am sure you ll get good help out here, best of luck

pawan_pullarwar · 29th December 2008, 19:47

I think you shouldnt be worry. If yellow lights are on, it should be minor problem, I suspect it is because of fuel quality. But as GTO said, after paying healthy amount for BMW German engg, it was not expected.

aaggoswami · 29th December 2008, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by diki24

Just heard back from the dealer. They say that the initial diagnosis is showing a problem with Exhaust Cam-Shaft sensor. It might have malfunctioned. Though this is the initial diagnosis and he will have to open the car tomorrow and see whats the extent to this and what are the next steps to this.
Now i am wondering, is this Sensor malfunctioning acceptable in just 7 days of delivery. Wouldn't they have checked everything before the delivery?? I believe there would be many such sensors, say 10 atleast, what if some or the other keep malfunctioning regularly and on the middle of the deserted highways?
Also how does this affect the warranty and what does it mean for me as a customer that, he will have to open it tomorrow and see, what it is.
what should be my stand on acceptance level?? Guys i am confused and worried, please help.

What does he mean by this. I hope its not opening the engine.
This should not have happened in the first place.
Before giving any permission, discuss how it will affect warranty. There is something wrong with the product and not the dealer that is what I think.

Dont worry. If you are sincere, you need not worry. Its now them who are supposed to worry. If the things get more complicated and if it requires engine overhaul, push for replacement of the car.

diki24 · 29th December 2008, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

What does he mean by this. I hope its not opening the engine.
This should not have happened in the first place.
Before giving any permission, discuss how it will affect warranty. There is something wrong with the product and not the dealer that is what I think.

Dont worry. If you are sincere, you need not worry. Its now them who are supposed to worry. If the things get more complicated and if it requires engine overhaul, push for replacement of the car.

thanks AAG,
Are there cases that anyone knows where they have replaced a Car for engine related issues?

ajmat · 29th December 2008, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by diki24

thanks AAG,
Are there cases that anyone knows where they have replaced a Car for engine related issues?

This is a one off, you were not stranded and you got home on limp home mode.

The manufacturer has the right to repair the car to "merchantable" quality within a reasonable time and no of attempts. If a fault which causes the car to be excessivly off the road or dangerous / limits the car persistently can a replacmeent be deemed the right choice. A colleague of mine got his mercedes replaced after 6 month and 20 days of niggling problems which were not cured.

Hopefully, this is the only problem you will face

dipen · 29th December 2008, 21:38

Diki, if they need to open up the engine or overhaul, just say once "I WANT A NEW CAR" and leave. Don't waste your time on arguing or justifying as to why you want a new car.

If this is not the case, use this as an opportunity to ask them free goodwill extra coverage like some additional warranty or similar on the car.

Also, as soon as possible ask the dealership to inform you about everything in detail before doing any kind of work on the car.

: Are German cars in other markets also equally notorious ? I think these cars in India always get away by blaming bad fuel quality. If I go by GTO's long term review, there is zero proof to blame anything on bad fuel. Air-con malfunctioning , manifold cracks and the likes. VW India inspite of selling in low volumes, has reported more issues than the rattling Swifts which have sold more than multiples of 100 comparatively.

Raj1008 · 29th December 2008, 21:50

These german cars have more complex electronics as well so higher rate of failure. And yes they are notorious for bad quality even in US/Canada. The best way is to lease these for a term equal to your warranty and return them at the end of the term. I dont know if leasing is an option in India.

I think its a one off and you shouldnt worry too much about it. Sensors are very sensitive. IMHO I dont think they will open any vitals. Just replace or clean the sensor. But keep an eye open to see what they do.

Sweet ride btw. Some more pictures please!

I thought 320s were discontinued? We get 323 or 325 as base here. Are these EU specs or made just for India?

aaggoswami · 29th December 2008, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmat

1) This is a one off, you were not stranded and you got home on limp home mode.

2) The manufacturer has the right to repair the car to "merchantable" quality within a reasonable time and no of attempts. If a fault which causes the car to be excessivly off the road or dangerous / limits the car persistently can a replacmeent be deemed the right choice. A colleague of mine got his mercedes replaced after 6 month and 20 days of niggling problems which were not cured.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dipen

3) Diki, if they need to open up the engine or overhaul, just say once "I WANT A NEW CAR" and leave. Don't waste your time on arguing or justifying as to why you want a new car.

If this is not the case, use this as an opportunity to ask them free goodwill extra coverage like some additional warranty or similar on the car.

Also, as soon as possible ask the dealership to inform you about everything in detail before doing any kind of work on the car.

4) Are German cars in other markets also equally notorious ? I think these cars in India always get away by blaming bad fuel quality. If I go by GTO's long term review, there is zero proof to blame anything on bad fuel. Air-con malfunctioning , manifold cracks and the likes. VW India inspite of selling in low volumes, has reported more issues than the rattling Swifts which have sold more than multiples of 100 comparatively.

1 and 2) This is less than ten days since getting the car. Very less time period and the car is giving some problems. And if at all it turns out to be a major problem, then I think that considering such short time frame, a replacement should be provided. May be they can term it as goodwill or any other thing. The car is not cheap, and if major problem is reported, pressure must be mounted on BMW India.

3) Agree with you that if opening the engine is required, just press in for a new car. If not, extract extended coverage. And no major work be should be done on the car without permission of owner.

4) In US, VW car cost of ownership increases with respect to time period for which you have the car. This is what I read in Motor Trend some years ago. European are known for issues. PSA and Fiat for electronics ( a maseratti quatroporte " driven " article in OD mentioned some electronic malfunction ) VW for high ownership cost, etc and the list goes on. No wonder Japs and Koreans are now leading.

Vid6639 · 29th December 2008, 22:13

Dikshant, also remember that if they find out the problem is due to poor quality fuel, they will not cover the repairs.

It looks to be some small problem nothing major. I think the sensor might have malfunctioned.

madhokritesh · 29th December 2008, 22:17

I had a engine problem with my Brand new Estilo within a month and the whole engine was Replaced by Maruti thats after i went to the print media etc, well that was Maruti and a 4lakh car this is BMW and a 30lakh car u got to press for a New Car also tell them u got links in Auto magazines etc which shud make them work faster if needed ill get your story in the Magazine. Best of luck.
:: AUTOCAR INDIA - CAR AND BIKE MAGAZINE :: thats wot happened to me.

Vid6639 · 29th December 2008, 22:25

You cannot press for a new car if an engine light comes on. The problem needs to be diagnosed first before taking it further. Based on that steps can be taken. If the fuel quality is bad then it's not BMW's fault.

phamilyman · 30th December 2008, 07:30

Mods: Please update this thread to "ECU in limp home mode" than engine fault!

Diki: Any communication so far?

drpullockaran · 30th December 2008, 07:55

In all probability its moisture in your tank and the second being dirt clogging your fuel filter. Premium fuels have this tendency to attract moisture and also loosen minute rust particles on the fuel tanks innards. Change the fuel filter and empty the petrol tank and you should be good to go. I believe the fuel in the car is the culprit and after draining it you can use it for any of your other automobiles or generator sets.

Since the guy was taking 10minutes to fuel the car also fumbling to get the bill book he is the suspect first and foremost and not the car.

diki24 · 30th December 2008, 12:05

Thanks everyone.
drpullockaran got it spot on.
Just got the final word from the dealer. They say there was a moisture on the sensor and hence the wrong signal/ Malfunction. They say its nothing to worry too much about. they are taking the long test drive and will return back the car after fixing it in few hours.
My question is that if its moisture will it just be wiping or cleaning the the area around the sensor or replacing it? a
lso they have denied giving any report for such thing and said no dealer/manufatcurer does that. Is that a normal/acceptable trend??
He didn't mention anything about the fuel quality and rather said it can be due to random reasons.

29th December 2008, 19:16	#16
diki24 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 81 Thanked: 4 Times	Just heard back from the dealer. They say that the initial diagnosis is showing a problem with Exhaust Cam-Shaft sensor. It might have malfunctioned. Though this is the initial diagnosis and he will have to open the car tomorrow and see whats the extent to this and what are the next steps to this. Now i am wondering, is this Sensor malfunctioning acceptable in just 7 days of delivery. Wouldn't they have checked everything before the delivery?? I believe there would be many such sensors, say 10 atleast, what if some or the other keep malfunctioning regularly and on the middle of the deserted highways? Also how does this affect the warranty and what does it mean for me as a customer that, he will have to open it tomorrow and see, what it is. what should be my stand on acceptance level?? Guys i am confused and worried, please help.
	() Thanks

29th December 2008, 19:47	#18
pawan_pullarwar BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pune - Now in Munich, Germany Posts: 778 Thanked: 129 Times	I think you shouldnt be worry. If yellow lights are on, it should be minor problem, I suspect it is because of fuel quality. But as GTO said, after paying healthy amount for BMW German engg, it was not expected.
	() Thanks

29th December 2008, 21:38	#22
dipen Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: mumbai Posts: 2,236 Thanked: 730 Times	Diki, if they need to open up the engine or overhaul, just say once "I WANT A NEW CAR" and leave. Don't waste your time on arguing or justifying as to why you want a new car. If this is not the case, use this as an opportunity to ask them free goodwill extra coverage like some additional warranty or similar on the car. Also, as soon as possible ask the dealership to inform you about everything in detail before doing any kind of work on the car. : Are German cars in other markets also equally notorious ? I think these cars in India always get away by blaming bad fuel quality. If I go by GTO's long term review, there is zero proof to blame anything on bad fuel. Air-con malfunctioning , manifold cracks and the likes. VW India inspite of selling in low volumes, has reported more issues than the rattling Swifts which have sold more than multiples of 100 comparatively.
	() Thanks

29th December 2008, 21:50	#23
Raj1008 BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 119 Thanked: 64 Times View My Garage	These german cars have more complex electronics as well so higher rate of failure. And yes they are notorious for bad quality even in US/Canada. The best way is to lease these for a term equal to your warranty and return them at the end of the term. I dont know if leasing is an option in India. I think its a one off and you shouldnt worry too much about it. Sensors are very sensitive. IMHO I dont think they will open any vitals. Just replace or clean the sensor. But keep an eye open to see what they do. Sweet ride btw. Some more pictures please! I thought 320s were discontinued? We get 323 or 325 as base here. Are these EU specs or made just for India? Last edited by Technocrat : 29th December 2008 at 22:24.
	() Thanks

29th December 2008, 22:13	#25
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,483 Times View My Garage	Dikshant, also remember that if they find out the problem is due to poor quality fuel, they will not cover the repairs. It looks to be some small problem nothing major. I think the sensor might have malfunctioned.
	() Thanks

29th December 2008, 22:17	#26
madhokritesh BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Thane Posts: 334 Thanked: 4 Times	I had a engine problem with my Brand new Estilo within a month and the whole engine was Replaced by Maruti thats after i went to the print media etc, well that was Maruti and a 4lakh car this is BMW and a 30lakh car u got to press for a New Car also tell them u got links in Auto magazines etc which shud make them work faster if needed ill get your story in the Magazine. Best of luck. :: AUTOCAR INDIA - CAR AND BIKE MAGAZINE :: thats wot happened to me. Last edited by madhokritesh : 29th December 2008 at 22:18.
	() Thanks

29th December 2008, 22:25	#27
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,483 Times View My Garage	You cannot press for a new car if an engine light comes on. The problem needs to be diagnosed first before taking it further. Based on that steps can be taken. If the fuel quality is bad then it's not BMW's fault.
	() Thanks

30th December 2008, 07:30	#28
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	Mods: Please update this thread to "ECU in limp home mode" than engine fault! Diki: Any communication so far?
	() Thanks

30th December 2008, 07:55	#29
drpullockaran BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ERNAKULAM Posts: 962 Thanked: 385 Times	Moisture and impurities In all probability its moisture in your tank and the second being dirt clogging your fuel filter. Premium fuels have this tendency to attract moisture and also loosen minute rust particles on the fuel tanks innards. Change the fuel filter and empty the petrol tank and you should be good to go. I believe the fuel in the car is the culprit and after draining it you can use it for any of your other automobiles or generator sets. Since the guy was taking 10minutes to fuel the car also fumbling to get the bill book he is the suspect first and foremost and not the car.
	() Thanks

30th December 2008, 12:05	#30
diki24 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 81 Thanked: 4 Times	Thanks everyone. drpullockaran got it spot on. Just got the final word from the dealer. They say there was a moisture on the sensor and hence the wrong signal/ Malfunction. They say its nothing to worry too much about. they are taking the long test drive and will return back the car after fixing it in few hours. My question is that if its moisture will it just be wiping or cleaning the the area around the sensor or replacing it? a lso they have denied giving any report for such thing and said no dealer/manufatcurer does that. Is that a normal/acceptable trend?? He didn't mention anything about the fuel quality and rather said it can be due to random reasons.
	() Thanks