Team-BHP - Wheel Alignment & Balancing

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjainv (Post 5432196)

One question:

Dealer argument was that new tyres don't need balancing and it's the alloy wheel which needs it and has been already balanced with 185 tyres.
It was getting late with on the edge kid with me
so I just took his justification on face value and moved on. Anyway I had made them do the fitting work twice, and this time they were in mode of pay for any extra work.

Question: is dealers justification correct? Or should I get the tyres balanced again?
He did do the alignment after fitting 195 as it wasn't done yet with previous ones.

Hi, the dealer was just being lazy and gave wrong information. Balancing is done for the tyre-wheel combination. Change of tyres after balancing means the assembly is again out of balance.

In my opinion he should have simply told you that re-balancing would cost you extra money and allowed you to take the call, and not given wrong information that it wasn’t required.

I suggest that you get the balancing done at a different outlet. It would cost you, but it is worth it and necessary. When you do that, make sure the old balancing weights are removed.

Also, 185/65R15 is a perfectly acceptable upsize from 175/65R15, have recommended this to a couple of friends on an Ignis and Honda City. Diameter difference of upto 3% is ok, and I have even stretched it to 3.5% in some cases without any issues.

In a way, I can empathise with the dealer and understand why he is pissed off - because now the 185s you asked him to remove from the wheels after fitment need to be thoroughly cleaned (especially in the bead region) to remove any traces of it being fitted before it can be sold. But that is no excuse for giving you wrong information that balancing is not required, he should have simply told you that he would charge you extra.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberGuru1113 (Post 5432221)

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I suggest that you get the balancing done at a different outlet. It would cost you, but it is worth it and necessary. When you do that, make sure the old balancing weights are removed.
.

Further update:

I went to same dealer and asked him to do wheel balancing. No questions asked he simply did that, all 4 were out of balance, old weights were then taken out and rebalanced with new weights.
Paid him for this, and then told him that I can understand the extra work but he misguided me.
He gave the understanding smile, we both laughed off and moved on...lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjainv (Post 5433607)

Glad that your story had a happy ending, and that you’re on balanced wheels. Cheers mate :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjainv (Post 5449753)

Quick question on tyre pressure post tyre upsize.

Original tyres; 175/65R15, recommended air pressure per manual -32/30 psi

Upsized tyres: 195/60R15, what would be the right tyre pressure ?

Btw, car in question is Honda Jazz Petrol.

You may go lower than 32/30 psi.
How much? Depends on further spec details (unknown for now) of the 2 tyres.
Safe bet is: use 32/30 psi or higher.

I changed my Alto 800's tyres today (all four - 145/80 R12) - got Apollo ones at 3k per tyre, wheel balancing and alignment included. I also got the valves changed in the process. I had carried Maruti ones ordered from Boodmo!

Now coming to issues - the agreement was to install Tubeless tyres of 2023 make.

Though tubeless was supposed to be installed, the dealer installed "Radial Tubetype". I noticed it during installation and got them to change it
This time "Radial Tubeless" were installed but again during installation, I noticed that they are 2022 manufactured ones :Frustrati
Again brought it to their attention and they accepted the mistake. Finally, the correct type and 2023 manufactured tyres were installed. Two were manufactured in the same week and the other two were weeks apart. Essentially, late January and February.

Now the issue is wheels were balanced only the first time. Alignment was done at the end and things looked okay there. I did ask them about it prior to the second fitment itself but they said it wouldn't matter as new ones are of the same size.

I did not notice any issues as such during the test drive they undertook and also during my drive back home. But again I am not exactly an expert driver who can judge minor issues as I have only driven this car. So not sure how a perfect car would drive! Online searches indicate unbalanced wheels can be detrimental for tyres as well as the car - this concerns me.

I still feel those were genuine human errors thanks to their pace of work. Apparently their expert was on leave today as confided by a worker there after this episode. At no point, they expressed frustration at my observations and readily obliged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gischethans (Post 5518782)

After doing some more research and giving much thought to it, I felt that it would be impossible to maintain the wheel balance after changing from "Radial Tubetype" to "Radial Tubeless". The reasons I could think of are -

The weights have to sit at exact points on the rim to ensure the right balance. This would certainly change with a different tyre.
Further, the tyre weight would also be different for different tyre variants.

With this, I decided to take action! I visited my trusted MASS, Abharan Motors, Karkala, and explained the whole story. The SA agreed to my thoughts and we decided to check/rebalance the wheels along with checking the alignment numbers.

On removing the wheels and placing them on the balancing machine, we were shocked to see some rims not having weights at all.
Even for the ones that had weights, they had (re)used old rusted ones. One was barely holding on to the rim! This is something I noticed them do yesterday and while I was not entirely happy, I thought maybe that is how it is done at tyre outlets. Also, I did not want to point out every single problem!
In my earlier experiences with MASS, I always saw them use new weights. The old ones simply go to the bin! The same thing happened today and a total of 8 weights were required - 5 of 20g and 3 of 35g.
The alignment was thankfully correct.

Hit to the pocket - ~₹600. At least I can be happy that my tyres and vehicle are in the right shape now.

Lastly, it is time to name the tyre dealer (Tyre Mart, Karkala - I see no point in not revealing their name anymore). In fact, they have multiple shops in this region and I was reasonably happy with the past experience at their Moodabidri outlet.

I had recently done the WA and WB for my spresso and after doing it I could feel that the suspension was not smooth and has become hard and as a result the ride has become very bumpy. I checked with the WA centre and they told me that they had only adjusted the toe and it has nothing to do with the suspension. But I was not convinced as I could clearly feel the difference with the way car rides over potholes and bumps before and after the WA was done. I want some advice from the BHPians regards what should I do now. Should I check the WA in some other shop and also is it possible that the behaviour of the suspension could change after WA? Please advice.

Need help
I have bmw X3 2019 model with 27000 kms on stock run flat tyres. Last week i took the car for WA and balancing. After the alignment the car steering was off centre and the car was drafting towards right side. The technician did the toe setting again and now the car is drifting towards left.
As per technician this is happening because of worn out tyres or i have to get the steering wheel recalibrated at the service center. The toe setting values are showing within the range. However the drifting was not the issue before wheel alignment and it surfaaced only after carrying out wheel alignment.

Why do alignment shops ask us to drive a few hundred km after an alignment and come back for adjustment if required after that ?

1. Does the alignment need to settle down ?
- everything is tightened, and there should be no loose points for this.
- if something changes in this period, it can go both ways - better set or can degrade, isnt it ?

2. Is it that they are overloaded and want to get to the next vehicle quickly ?
- and they take chance as in #1 above ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by condor (Post 5526905)

Has never been the case with any of my cars so far. Alignment is always perfect at first shot and in the last ten years I haven't gone back once for any rework. The only time I had to actually do rework was when Ravindu Toyota guys changed the caster bolt to get a 'perfect' alignment and ended up doing a bad job which was reworked by Tyre Professionals. Apart from that I have not faced that advise of driving for a few kms and returning for adjustment.

However, if the suspension has been completely overhauled, then there are chances of something changing in the first few hundred kms. Contrary to what you say, there are loose points which can deviate the alignment especially if it's the suspension bushes and lower arm joints especially if the camber and caster are adjustable. But otherwise there should be no issue unless the suspension components itself are worn out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioholic (Post 5527101)

However, if the suspension has been completely overhauled, then there are chances of something changing in the first few hundred kms. Contrary to what you say, there are loose points which can deviate the alignment especially if it's the suspension bushes and lower arm joints especially if the camber and caster are adjustable.

What can be done to try and make the alignment settle down faster ?

Had 4th round of adjustment today, and still things are not good.

For the vehicle to go straight, the steering wheel has to be at slight right tilt. Even here, there is a right pull on some roads.

If the steering wheel is dead centre, then there is a clear left pull.

Getting irritated with this issue.

Have not noticed anything like noises etc. None of the 3 guys who did the alignment have said anything about the bushes being bad, or similar. My mechanic had changed the tie-rods sometime back, and he has not said anything about suspension components being bad either. He is a company trained guy, and he would have told me.