[ggs_mani]

Hello All,

I’ve been a silent but avid reader of these pages for many many years and I've always looks up-to the this forum for any kind of auto advice I would need. Currently I’m in the market for a car and would greatly appreciate any advice I can get on this. I started looking for a car before the pandemic started and then with the uncertainty of the pandemic I dropped the very idea of buying a new car. Now that things are getting back to ‘normal’, I’ve resumed my search. We’re a family of 5 which includes a 4 year old and 2 elderly parents. I drive around the city a bit, but also like to take the car out on long drives. Heck I used to take my present car, a battered up 2010 Alto K10 on long drives, before I realized how unsafe that is! (Mine is the ‘top’ variant and still lacks any safety features). I’d wanted a safe and good to drive car that I would retain for a long time and would be able to have some happy family moments in. My city drives will be close to 40% and rest would be long drives in the highway. Considering my family and the growing knee pain I put down 2 features as a must have, 6 airbags and an automatic. Expanding on my needs a bit more, I would need a decent sized boot (400 odd liters if I’ve take my family out on vacation), ISOFIX child safety mounts, a good backseat that can fit 3 average sized adults or 2 adults and a child, a decent seating position affording a good view of the road with minimal blind spots, and a fairly enjoyable car to drive. I don’t drive fast on the roads, I rarely cross 90 kmph and on straight stretches of the highway I’d settle for a 90-100 kmph cruise. I prefer driving slower and enjoying the drive and always drive with a light foot.

Considering my needs, I test drove the following cars. You’ll see that I’ve went across various segments, but all the cars were shortlisted on the basis of perceived robustness of build and safety.

Jeep Compass - Loved the drive and the handling of the car. Hated the backseat and hated the fact that 6 airbags are available in the top variant which is priced astronomically high.
Tata Harrier - Loved the drive and handling of the newer Harrier. The center console constantly hinders with the left knee, but thanks to the automatic it was not much of a challenge. But still one felt the car was probably designed with a taller person in mind, at 175 cms I felt like I just couldn’t get a comfortable seating position in the car. Car feels quite robust, but does not have a crash test rating published.
Kia Seltos - Loved the drive, the handling on the car. Also loved the fact that 6 airbags + automatic are available at a much lower price. Decent read seat and the interiors were not so impressive nor were the quirky loud exteriors, but figured I could live with it or get used to it, and almost booked the car, until the GNCAP crash test results came out!
Renault Duster - Loved the drive and suspension. Also a great handler. But family hated the spartan interiors of the car.
MG Hector - I drove the petrol DCT. Has 6 airbags, not the most frugal, but fairly well appointed interiors. Liked the car overall and family also loved it. Not very sure of the ownership experience and also worried that like GM they’d shut shop and leave given low sales numbers! Also the thing that worries me more is that there’s no crash test ratings available. 
Honda City: Liked the smoothness of the CVT and suited my driving style. Didn’t like the seating position, and I had to push the seat its maximum height to feel ok. Got used to the length of the car rather quickly, and the rear seat is very comfortable. Didn’t like the build that much but I keep getting assurances from everybody that Honda doesn’t compromise on quality and it is the best that I can buy for my family. There’s an ASEAN crash test ratings that is available for the 5th gen City and it is a good 5 stars, but not sure how much one can ascribe that to the India spec car.

This is one of the reasons I’m putting this post up, since the crash test results of Seltos, I’ve been looking at every car with a lot of suspicion. We don’t have Harrier’s crash test results nor do we have Jeep Compass’ India variants test results. I tried to lower my expectations of space and test drove the Nexon and XUV300 purely based on their safety record but didn’t like the lack of space in the backseat and overall didn’t like the automatic (an AMT) in both. Now I’m thinking should I buy a Honda City, didn’t really like the low seating position of the car, but the fact that it is a Honda and is reliable is appealing. But again we don’t have published crash test results. So I can either buy a safe car and compromise on everything else or buy a relatively unsafe car have a decent ownership experience and then pray!

Am I doing my family a big disservice in buying a car that does not have a published crash test results? This very thought is rather troubling and keeps me awake at night! It is very difficult to make decision one way or the other with the apparent scant regard to safety that we see in a majority of the cars in India. I’ve been reading a lot of TBHP threads that goes into gory details of the build or the lack of it. The famous Hyundai discussions, the lack of a structural element in the Ford Endeavour India car to site a few. Furthermore the lack of crash avoidance technologies in any car south of 30 Lakhs, compromises on sheet metal that even the Honda City felt tinny compared to a Skoda or a Jeep, adds to the trepidation! In one of the TBHP threads on safety I noticed a video from Autocar India where the journalist was talking about basic crash tests in India and how mostly cars are safe and GNCAP helps takes it up a notch. Also how GNCAP does not consider crash avoidance technologies which is the real deal when it comes to safety. But in the same thread the journalist also says the "unstable structure" result that came out of the Seltos test, does mean that it might result in injuries for the passengers. So given all this and my needs, how does one take a decision? Any advice what family car can one choose in India for a budget of around 20 Lakhs?

[srirang]

Hi ggs_mani,

Thank you for this thread. I am very much in a similar boat except that I am a first time car buyer and I started off with a much smaller budget until I realized two things :

1. The cheapest non-AMT from a reliable brand is Honda Amaze at almost 10.5L on-road (Bengaluru / Top Variant).
2. It is just 2 airbags until 14L (Ford Ecosport / Hyundai i20)
3. Even something like VW Polo at almost 12L has 2 airbags..!

Looking forward to suggestions that will come up here. I am yet to do a test drive of any car. So all my knowledge is just theory and reading.

One option you may consider is Skoda Rapid 1.0 TSI Style AT:

1. 4 Airbags
2. VW owned brand. So I believe build will be good.
3. 460 ltrs of boot space
4. Torque Converter AT
5. Roughly about 16L (Bengaluru)
6. Thing to think about : It's a turbo engine.

I do not have any idea about the Skoda dealers and after sales service / spare parts cost etc.

[GTO]

A dilemma indeed. It's quite sad that safety is "optional" in India. We went through a similar problem after having shortlisted the Seltos, and eventually ended up with a car two segments above!

If you absolutely want a safe crash-tested car, I would suggest WAITING:

- I would expect the GNCAP to test more cars in 2021, including hot ones like the Creta, Harrier etc. I also expect the City to be crash tested, being that it is the benchmark sedan in its class.

- New cars are also coming up, including the Taigun & Kushaq which might have an edge on safety. VAG cars usually show a commitment to safety.

- You might want to take a spin in the Innova AT. It's as good as any "SUV" out there, with loads more practicality & utility. Importantly, the Innova is from a brand whose cheaper car got 4-stars in the NCAP.

- May I also recommend a pre-owned Jeep Compass? They are trading at good prices and there are lots of the top variant available in the used market.

Originally Posted by ggs_mani

tried to lower my expectations of space and test drove the Nexon and XUV300 purely based on their safety record but didn’t like the lack of space in the backseat and overall didn’t like the automatic (an AMT) in both.

The AMT is yuck, man! I could NEVER live with one. It has no business being sold in any 10+ lakh car. AMTs are best for cheap hatchbacks only.

[PaddleShifter]

Leaving XUV300 and Nexon aside (since they are already tested and you too have experience of what they offer, I’d say there is no way Jeep Compass will have any compromise on the safety aspect. This is one area that FCA usually takes care of and suffers (people don’t value the cost increment that comes with a safe car made of metal vs. lightly built car made of mettel (reference to Baleno) with visible gizmos.

Regarding Harrier and Honda City, while it is difficult to speculate, it is a lot easier to put faith in a Tata Harrier (4 stars should be a minimum for that build rest depends upon actual test) compared to the Honda City when it comes to GNCAP testing.

Being someone who values safety, I feel Compass and Harrier are both good choices that will ensure your family’s safety.

[nagr22]

Originally Posted by ggs_mani

There’s an ASEAN crash test ratings that is available for the 5th gen City and it is a good 5 stars, but not sure how much one can ascribe that to the India spec car.

This is a question which I have since long time as well. I too own a car which has a 5 star ASEAN NCAP rating but is untested by GNCAP and is likely to be never tested due to low sales. If the car sold in India is the same as the one which got 5 star in ANCAP, what stops the manufacturers from claiming that they are selling the same car and proudly flaunt the 5 star badge? Seems very fishy to me after the Kia Seltos results.

Coming to the topic, it is really sad that safety conscious buyers who are ready to put millions of rupees are not assured a safe car. In your case, I would recommend you to stick cars which are tested by GNCAP for Indian market only. If you don't find anything yet, wait for 6 months to 1 year and by then many more cars can be tested by GNCAP and you may find what you like.

[ggs_mani]

Originally Posted by GTO

If you absolutely want a safe crash-tested car, I would suggest WAITING:

- I would expect the GNCAP to test more cars in 2021, including hot ones like the Creta, Harrier etc. I also expect the City to be crash tested, being that it is the benchmark sedan in its class.

- New cars are also coming up, including the Taigun & Kushaq which might have an edge on safety. VAG cars usually show a commitment to safety.

- You might want to take a spin in the Innova AT. It's as good as any "SUV" out there, with loads more practicality & utility. Importantly, the Innova is from a brand whose cheaper car got 4-stars in the NCAP.

- May I also recommend a pre-owned Jeep Compass? They are trading at good prices and there are lots of the top variant available in the used market.



The AMT is yuck, man! I could NEVER live with one. It has no business being sold in any 10+ lakh car. AMTs are best for cheap hatchbacks only.

Thank you! And Yes, Can't agree more on the AMT. It was such a deal breaker, in an otherwise fairly good car. And like you're suggesting I've almost come to the same conclusion. The only option at this point seems to be to wait.

Meanwhile I'm hearing from the local VW dealers in Chennai that Taigun bookings have started and deliveries might start in May. Meanwhile having never driven an Innova yet, I've indeed started checking out used Jeep Compass cars, it suddenly looks like a such a good value proposition! It was always a car my heart desired.

Originally Posted by srirang

One option you may consider is Skoda Rapid 1.0 TSI Style AT.

Thanks. If nothing else works out, that's my final fall back! I'd just buy a Rapid and be done with it!

Originally Posted by PaddleShifter

Being someone who values safety, I feel Compass and Harrier are both good choices that will ensure your family’s safety.

Having test driven both the Harrier and the Compass they do feel fairly well built. But again there's no direct evidence for us yet. That Tata Motors prides itself on building safe cars, but yet has not tested their flagship is a little surprising. Hopefully these get tested this year, and we can make a safe decision.

[Simhi]

Originally Posted by ggs_mani

Any advice what family car can one choose in India for a budget of around 20 Lakhs?

If you are ok to consider car which is not setting sales chart on fire, then do evaluate Yaris. My evaluation of your criteria w.r.t Yaris

1. 6 airbags - Yes. You can get 7 airbags
2. Automatic - Across all variants. CVT transmission.
3. Decent sized boot: Yes, I think it is 476L
4. ISOFIX child safety mounts: Yes
5. A good backseat that can fit 3 average sized adults or 2 adults and a child: If you planning to fix a child seat and also expect 2 adults to fit in the rear, then it is going to be challenge. Without a child seat, 2 adults + 1 child would be able to sit comfortably. Many people are not comfortable with Yaris rear space but I would recommend you to check out personally.
6. A decent seating position affording a good view of the road with minimal blind spots: Yes
7. A fairly enjoyable car to drive: Yes
8. GNCAP testing: Indian version of Yaris has not been tested. However, the cheaper version Etios with 2 airbags got 4 Stars. We can expect Yaris with 7 airbags to also get at least 4 Stars. As mentioned by Nagendra, Yaris might never get tested by GNCAP due to its low sales.
9. Build Quality: I found it to be better than the competition including Honda City. Also maintenance interval is 1 year instead of 6 months.

[fhdowntheline]

The OP has asked a very objective question on whether he should consider any car that is not GNCAP rated. If GNCAP is to be the sole benchmark- he must wait to see if the more popular cars are tested this year. Anything else, like suggesting equivalence of ASEAN NCAP scores or "other models from the same stable or perceived build quality " theory show some inherent bias because we arent 100 % sure of the facts and specifics. To that extent, the Seltos is now a "Known Devil" of sorts.

If GNCAP is sacrosanct- the only suggestion in my opinion would be the Marazzo OR the XUV300 or the Thar (Mahindra says it meets global safety norms but haven't mentioned GNCAP scores on its site).

The flip side to this is that GNCAP may not be able to fully validate all scenarios of accidents. Even a 7 star rated car (if there ever was one) would not be able to save a passenger who doesnt wear a seatbelt. There are certain typical scenarios in India where any star rated car would fail- like a rear-collision with a truck carrying steel rods/pipes or protrusions of any sort, or awkward T-boning of larger (heavier) cars by smaller ones resulting in much greater damage, irrespective of ratings, not to mention aggressive manouvers at high speed (say above 100kph), where all bets are off.

[yd_gli]

Compliance to any standard has a couple of outputs:
- Go/No-Go or a pass/fail output
- Relative bench-marking of products on a scale of performance

The GNCAP comes out with the second output. To be honest, the interpretation of the GNCAP results without an understanding of the testing methodology is risky business. For e.g. what is the actual safety risk between a 3 star and a 4 star vehicle? Minor injuries vs major injuries vs fatalities? Is a score of 3.6 rated as a 3 or as a 4? Are some vehicles maybe 4 stars for head on collisions and only 3 stars in side collisions? What happens then? Are they rated as 3 or 4 stars? I am sure there are answers to all these questions but the average consumer doesn't know them. Hence, to use these ratings as blanket criteria to reject/accept products is not the best move.

To make it short, there are too many variables and unknowns and as it with all other specifications this one must be taken with a grain of salt as well. Sure, a one star must be avoided, but the gains between a 3/4 and 4/5 star ratings are not obvious to me and will not influence my decision making.

[Siva Prakash]

If you are not willing to buy a car which is not crash tested, the decision is very easy to make because there aren't too many cars in the 15-20 lakh segment which have been crash tested, your only options are the Kia Seltos, Mahindra Thar and the Skoda Rapid/Volkswagen Vento.

Originally Posted by ggs_mani

Expanding on my needs a bit more, I would need a decent sized boot (400 odd liters if I’ve take my family out on vacation), ISOFIX child safety mounts, a good backseat that can fit 3 average sized adults or 2 adults and a child, a decent seating position affording a good view of the road with minimal blind spots, and a fairly enjoyable car to drive. I don’t drive fast on the roads, I rarely cross 90 kmph and on straight stretches of the highway I’d settle for a 90-100 kmph cruise. I prefer driving slower and enjoying the drive and always drive with a light foot.

If you are willing to buy a car which has not been crash tested, buy the Honda City, it satisfies all your requirements.

[superguy282]

Originally Posted by ggs_mani

Am I doing my family a big disservice in buying a car that does not have a published crash test results? This very thought is rather troubling and keeps me awake at night! It is very difficult to make decision one way or the other with the apparent scant regard to safety that we see in a majority of the cars in India. I’ve been reading a lot of TBHP threads that goes into gory details of the build or the lack of it. The famous Hyundai discussions, the lack of a structural element in the Ford Endeavour India car to site a few. Furthermore the lack of crash avoidance technologies in any car south of 30 Lakhs, compromises on sheet metal that even the Honda City felt tinny compared to a Skoda or a Jeep, adds to the trepidation! In one of the TBHP threads on safety I noticed a video from Autocar India where the journalist was talking about basic crash tests in India and how mostly cars are safe and GNCAP helps takes it up a notch. Also how GNCAP does not consider crash avoidance technologies which is the real deal when it comes to safety. But in the same thread the journalist also says the "unstable structure" result that came out of the Seltos test, does mean that it might result in injuries for the passengers. So given all this and my needs, how does one take a decision? Any advice what family car can one choose in India for a budget of around 20 Lakhs?

I've been seeing many people in the same position as you are for the past months. The thing is, the Indian GNCAP and market in general is too underdeveloped to consider safety. Basing your entire purchase solely on the GNCAP ratings will lead you to a dead end. There are various factors responsible for this,
- Low, to No awareness of the importance of safety. Forget GNCAP ratings people aren't wearing seatbelts!
- Lack of funding at GNCAP(as it isn't goverment organization like the other NCAPs).
- Average Infrastructure and Utter lack of traffic discipline going against any benefits of Safety Ratings and features.
- Manufacturers "Chalta hai" attitude. I can't blame them though, no one's coming up and asking them about safety.

Which is why, until most or all of these points are resolved, you will have to take a gamble. Also, I suggest dismissing the ASEAN ratings entirely. If the models were actually Indian made, they would've put that on the first page of the brochure in bold. Instead they add a "T & C apply. Model tested may or may not be Indian" at the bottom.

Another point which I'd like to make is actually a statement by NCAP itself. More specifically Euro NCAP. Even in the EU where the lack of a safety rating deters buyers and makes the manufacturers send many units of their cars for testing to NCAP by themselves, there are still some cars that remain untested. Which is why NCAP recommends you to go for the Highest rating possible in consideration of all your other needs. They themselves do not recommend basing your entire purchase decision on it.
Quoting EuroNCAP,

The number of stars reflects how well the car performs in Euro NCAP tests, but it is also influenced by what safety equipment the vehicle manufacturer is offering in each market. So a high number of stars shows not only that the test result was good, but also that safety equipment on the tested model is readily available to all consumers in Europe. The star rating goes beyond the legal requirements and not all new vehicles need to undergo Euro NCAP tests. A car that just meets the minimum legal demands would not be eligible for any stars. This also means that a car which is rated poorly is not necessarily unsafe, but it is not as safe as its competitors that were rated better.

Source

So If feel like everyone purchasing a car and basing their decision on the ratings must keep this in mind.

Regarding your choices, Ironically enough, it seems the Kia Seltos is the way to go. It's the only one that's been tested and moreover since you are able to go for a higher variant with more airbags and additional safety features you can be rest assured that the rating of your particular variant will surely be greater than or atleast equal to 3/5 stars.

[Carpainter]

I think if you want to know the GNCAP score before buying a car then you'll have to buy cars that are already tested or you'll have to wait for more models to be tested before making a decision. But even though some models are not officially tested, I believe they are perceived to be safe like Compass, Harrier, TRoc, soon to be launched Kushak etc. So it's indeed a dilemma and you have to decide what you want.

On a side note, cars like Polo got 4 or 5 stars with 2 airbags if I remember correctly. So if you want to keep your budget low you can look at cars like Polo, Rapid which are atleast structurally strong and safe.

[landcruiser123]

Ok, you are not going to get a safety rating for every car unless the government starts requiring it. Let’s face reality:

If I were you, I’d take the bets based on the brands history/commitment to safety.

I’d pick: (In no particular order)
1. Tata
2. Mahindra
3. Toyota
4. VW/Skoda
5. Honda

I’d avoid:
1. Maruti (except Vitara Brezza)
2. Hyundai/Kia (May consider Tucson, Santa Fe, Carnival)

^^Nothing is foolproof, but we do have to take safe bet once in a while.

[AMG Power]

Originally Posted by ggs_mani

Am I doing my family a big disservice in buying a car that does not have a published crash test results?

67% of Indians don’t think so.

[ramnaresh_2000]

Originally Posted by ggs_mani

Jeep Compass - Loved the drive and the handling of the car. Hated the backseat and hated the fact that 6 airbags are available in the top variant which is priced astronomically high.

Hi ggs_mani, I was in similar position 3 months back. I wanted a safe car within a budget of 15-16 lakhs. I also considered each and every car you mentioned and ended up buying a pre-worshipped Jeep Compass. I suggest you to go through the official Compass review on TBHP and check the safety features, even basic Compass is loaded with 50+ safety features. I agree, it's sad that Indian variant is not crash tested, however, the build quality is solid and I am quite confident that it will score high in crash ratings.

Here is the link to my ownership review, hoping that it will assist you on your decision making.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...ip-review.html (Red Phoenix - My Used Jeep Compass Limited (D) MT : An Ownership Review)

I will not touch AMT with a 50 foot stick. It sucks, and M&M has ditched TUV AMT after disastrous customer response. I was one of the unfortunate person to suffer from this. I sold my TUV in 3 years.

Harrier AT is a boon, there are many praises from many reviewers. However, Harrier interior quality is a big let down and doesn't feel like a 20+ lakhs vehicle. Too many ergonomic issues and I suggest a long test drive before you shortlist it. It is solidly built and better than Korean twins.

Best of luck.