[buzzy_boy]

Background

I had a 2017 Ford Aspire 1.5 TDCI - which I upgraded to from a 2010 Figo 1.4 Duratorq. While I loved the way the older Ford drove, the Aspire was a bit disappointing. My major gripes were:

1. Non linear throttle response
2. This combined with a clutch with a high bite-point meant that careful clutch operation is required to avoid jerks - especially in stop-go traffic
3. Plain handling, washes wide too easily
4. Quality of gear shift a far cry from the old Figo
5. Poor rear suspension that used to bottom out with a full boot over bumps
6. The guard below the front bumper scraps easily. It is soft and gentle scraps don't break it, it was still an irritant nonetheless

So, I sold it off when the used car prices soared during the pandemic. Now, I'm in the market for a new car.

Requirements

1. Decent power to weight ratio (preferably > 100)
2. Boot larger than 325 litres
3. Does not understeer at reasonable cornering speeds - unlike the old Aspire
4. Does not bottom out with a full boot
5. Petrol
6. Automatic preferable. If not, good drivability with a light clutch.
7. Budget 15 lakhs max on-road (lower the better)
8. Safety
9. NA petrol preferable due to linear power delivery
10. Fuss free maintenance

The shortlist

1. Venue 1.0 turbo IMT
2. i20 nline 1.0 turbo IMT
3. Honda City 1.5 Petrol MT
4. Baleno dualjet
5. Verna 1.5 VTVT

Ask

Among those in my shortlist, the i20 nline is the best handler. My question is which one of them is the best among the rest? I have a low bar; I'm satisfied if the vehicle has decent straight line stability, corners reasonably well and doesn't bottom out easily.

Thanks in advance!

[IshaanIan]

Unfortunately they simply don't make cars like that anymore (normally aspirated with sound driving dynamics).

I suppose the best of the small car bunch in terms of driving dynamics would be the Swift although it won't feel as sure-footed as your original Figo would have. Might I suggest test driving an S-Cross petrol? I know it only comes with a weedy 1.5 petrol mill, but a remap and crisper throttle tune could just make it enjoyable enough provided you are able to wring it out confidently (maruti has always had light and extremely predictable clutches on their petrol cars).

[VWAllstar]

Moving from an Aspire Diesel to a petrol would disappoint you further. Completely agree with the hard clutch operation of Ford Diesel cars, its a pain literally in B2B traffic. However, even today there are very few cars which can be as much fun as Ford Aspire / Figo Diesel.

Considering your running has gone considerably lower and now preferring a petrol, you have a plethora of options. Hyundai N Line fits your budget and as per the Team BHP review, it is just how you want it to be. If your mentioned requirements are unmoved, then I20 N Line is the perfect choice.

Under 15L - check
Decent handling - check
Petrol - check
Automatic - check (2 options)
Fuss free after sales service - check
Boot size - reasonable

[IamNikhil]

As per your list of requirements, the i20 N-Line and the Venue fit the bill nicely. You'll be moving into a different segment altogether with the Honda City; I personally didn't quite like the ride in the new generation City. The Venue has good road grip and with a budget of 15 lakh, you can get the top variant with all the bells and whistles. Boot space is fairly decent too.

[buzzy_boy]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Unfortunately they simply don't make cars like that anymore (normally aspirated with sound driving dynamics).

... I know it only comes with a weedy 1.5 petrol mill, but a remap and crisper throttle tune could just make it enjoyable enough provided you are able to wring it out confidently (maruti has always had light and extremely predictable clutches on their petrol cars).

The s-cross actually surprised me with its good handing (had driven the 1.3 DDiS before). I hadn't considered a remap, though. Will give that a shot. Thank you so much!

[buzzy_boy]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Moving from an Aspire Diesel to a petrol woukd disappoint you further. Complwtely agree with the hard clutch operation of Ford Diesel cars, its a pain literally in B2B traffic. However, even today there are very few cars which can be as much fun as Ford Aspire / Figo Diesel.

Considering your running has gone considerably lower and now preferring a petrol, you have a plethora of options.

Apart from low running, maintaining a Diesel seems even more complicated with BS6 norms. Ford had issues with it's DPF and Toyotas require fulling Adblue every once in a while. Those are my reasons for switching to petrol.

Agreed on the downgrade in experience from Ford diesels. I briefly toyed with the idea of buying a used BS4 one. However, gave up on that idea as I didn't want the associated hassle.

The only reason i was a little apprehensive about the nline was the gear box. I didn't want the DCT due to questions on reliability. The IMT is a relatively simpler system so it should be easier to maintain. I'm planning to go with the nline if I don't find a better car within my budget.

[AJ56]

Honestly the only fun to drive, powerful car I can think of under 15l is a used polo GTI, which is difficult to find in the used market. You can also look at older 325i’s that came with a straight six engine making decent power, they have good handling with a nice hydraulic steering. You can get an ‘09 for 7-9l but keep aside a few lakhs for any potential repairs. You can also look at manual Jettas and Passats, but you might need to put in stiffer springs to match your handling preferences. You can also look at a lightly used Polo and heavily modify it to make more power and handle better but it’ll take some time and effort on your part. Cheers.

[GautamJ]

Originally Posted by buzzy_boy

The shortlist

Apologies for adding to the confusion, but why not TD Skoda Rapid?
I have never driven Aspire, hence cannot compare it with Rapid but I expect it to a better handler especially, after modding it with Bilstein suspensions and upgrading to stickier 205 section tyres.

[GTO]

Because you sold your Aspire prematurely, it is very important to select the right car, something you can stay with for 7 - 10 years. Selling cars early results in massive depreciation hits. Whatever you do, be sure to take multiple test-drives to reaffirm your choice this time.

Hyundais have good suspensions now. From your shortlist, I would pick the i20 N-Line DCT (NOT IMT as you are a driving enthusiast). Would also consider the Polo TSI AT / MT, Venue DCT / MT & Rapid 1.0 TSI.

Don't know if you are open to pre-owned, but a Compass 2.0 Diesel, Octavia, S-Cross 1.6L & Seltos Turbo-Petrol will keep you mighty happy .

Originally Posted by AJ56

Honestly the only fun to drive, powerful car I can think of under 15l is a used polo GTI, which is difficult to find in the used market. You can also look at older 325i’s that came with a straight six engine making decent power, they have good handling with a nice hydraulic steering.

Agreed with the Polo GTI, that's a solid recommendation. But completely disagree with the older 325i. You need to stop recommending such old German cars to people who haven't specifically asked for it (I remember you doing it on another query too). Someone moving to a 10-year old BMW from an Aspire will be in for major shock with the maintenance costs + frequent issues. What's more, that 325i you are recommending has a painfully heavy steering in the city, an engine that's completely dead below 3000 rpm, an awfully stiff suspension & no rear legroom. It is quite a sad car for anyone to buy today.

[akshay380]

Do check Altroz Diesel too. Very sorted dynamics. In fact I was in similar boat as you previously. Owned a first gen Figo 1.2. eagerly waited for newer gen figo twins only to he disappointed by the exact same points mentioned by you. So went and bought a pre-owned Fiesta 1.6 for those fun drives. Recently picked up Altroz Diesel and was very surprised at how well it steers, helps that I have 205 sections on it though.

[anb]

Sadly there is no stock cars which handles better than the Ford in this price bracket. The most suitable car is Vento/Rapid with some modifications. A Rapid/Vento with Bilstein B6 suspension and a rear anti roll bar like whiteline ( if possible) will handle way better than Aspire.

[TheHelix0202]

May I suggest a used Rapid 1.6 TDI (or even the 1.5 TDI)? Apart from the other points mentioned by people here already, this car is the closest you can get to enjoying pre-owned diesel fun (even if you aren’t looking for used cars). A remap, some stiffer shocks and wider tyres would do you wonders. A poor man’s Beemer if you will.

Only downside is the A.S.S.

[d3mon]

Originally Posted by buzzy_boy

The shortlist

1. Venue 1.0 turbo IMT
2. i20 nline 1.0 turbo IMT
3. Honda City 1.5 Petrol MT
4. Baleno dualjet
5. Verna 1.5 VTVT

None of these will give you the "no understeer" part. All of them are FWD platforms with 60+% of weight on the front axle. Understeer is a given with all such cars, with only small differences in the max cornering grip generated.

When folks talk about a nice handling car, they mostly refer to the feel of the steering / suspension, not max cornering grip. The Aspire was not the best in this area, but it was definitely in the same ballpark as the options you've listed here. Real improvements to grip require a better weight distribution and sophisticated independent rear suspension at the very least, which none of these cars have.

I think you may be disappointed by all these cars again as you are expecting a significant improvement in handling. To ensure that's not the case, I'd highly recommend test driving a reasonably sporty car like the 330i even if it's out of your budget to set the benchmark of grip and then decide whether you want to get one of these cars new, or try to get something sportier from the pre-owned market in your 15L budget. One slalom maneuver in the 3 should be enough to set the benchmark

[buzzy_boy]

Originally Posted by d3mon

None of these will give you the "no understeer" part. All of them are FWD platforms with 60+% of weight on the front axle. Understeer is a given with all such cars, with only small differences in the max cornering grip generated.

These are excellent points.

My benchmark is the 2010 Figo 1.4 Duratorq, and nothing more fancier! I still travel the same roads, and where I could reasonably stay closer to the centre of the road with the Figo, I'd find myself closer to the edges with my Aspire - at the same speeds. It could've been the tiers, suspension geometry, brakes, or engine characteristics (given that WD would roughly be the same btwn the two cars) - I don't know!!

I TD'd the Freestyle 1.2 Petrol recently, and I liked its handing - though the engine was poor. Then came the Ford announcement putting a full-stop there.

I thought of changing the tyres/suspension of my Aspire to see if it'd help, but decided against spending more money on the car due to its other faults.

Originally Posted by d3mon

To ensure that's not the case, I'd highly recommend test driving a reasonably sporty car like the 330i even if it's out of your budget to set the benchmark of grip and then decide whether you want to get one of these cars new, or try to get something sportier from the pre-owned market in your 15L budget.

Haha! I'm tempted to take a TD of the 330i, but I think I shall take a pass on that - just to avert a motoring life full of misery, yearning for something that makes no financial sense for me!

[anb]

Originally Posted by d3mon

None of these will give you the "no understeer" part. All of them are FWD platforms with 60+% of weight on the front axle. Understeer is a given with all such cars, with only small differences in the max cornering grip generated.

There is one way to get no understeer under 15 lakhs. My Polo GT TDI fitted with whiteline rear anti roll bar has almost no understeer. Quoting the same from another post.


https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-...ml#post4309493 (Pete's Tuned VW Polo GT TSI - A Little Hot Hatch! Sold in - August '19)

Originally Posted by Philip.Mathew

So what exactly happens with a Rear Sway Bar in a FWD Car?

With a FWD Car which has a setup for understeer we have to stiffen the rear to reduce this understeer. The Polo already comes with a front anti-roll/sway bar from factory. Stiffening the front further in a FWD will only further increase understeer which is something we don't want. So on a GT TSI a simple rear sway bar can significantly improve the grip & handling characteristics, and reduce the understeer. Whereas on a Stage 2 Polo GTI, other than a rear sway bar you'll also need a slightly stiffer front sway bar. So on extremely powerful FWD Car's like a K04 Laura, Stage 2 GTI which has so much power going into the Front Wheels, we'll need to get both upgraded front and rear anti-roll bars to make sure that the rear doesn't get too stiff compared to the front, although we still want the rear to be slightly stiffer than the front to reduce the understeer and have a hint of oversteer. If the rear gets too stiff compared to the front it can lead to lift-off oversteer if you brake mid corner or in some really powerful FWD cars a simple lift off the throttle mid corner can send the weight balance forward(FWD cars are already front heavy) and as you take the turn the stiff and light rear comes loose and goes into a slide, the only way to correct this is by resetting the weight balance to normal by accelerating which will straighten out the car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NE7U-FNep7Q