[Lux_Noob]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

As for the Octavia - do take a test drive and have a look at that and even the A4. I haven't heard of any issues with ground clearance and the seat travel is pretty decent. I am 6'2" myself and have/had a healthy body too and I've taken my lowered 3 series to Andheri countless times - the stiffer suspension of the Germans helps more than the numbers - and a good test drive could help alleviate all the worries on your mind!

Actually, the 1st car I did a short TD in Mumbai was an A4 upon the Audi SA insistence when I had gone to enquire about Q3’s arrival, late last year. In that short TD, with only 2 adults and my young kid on board, I had managed to scrape the bottom against a speed breaker (those sharp ones). I have only driven small hatchbacks so far so maybe my driving needs to adapt to such cars given you and I are the same height and you do drive a 3 series. But I must say, a car like 3 series can make one do small adjustments. I sat in one in the showroom while checking out the X1 and the cockpit gave me the closest feel of “fast and furious”, along with luxury. Great choice certainly.

On XC40 electric, the YouTube videos seem to suggest the acceleration in car is mind blowing and I agree it has a unique wow factor unavailable at the price point. But my journey started with a low 40s budget (mentally anchored to pre-pandemic entry level luxury prices), so 50 itself is a stretch. Going another 10 lac is ultimately a matter of breaking another bank FD, but at that rate, these luxury beauties can drive most of us bankrupt so need to remain disciplined/sensible.
I will be getting a TD of the actual B4 XC40 tomorrow and hope to clear my remaining doubts then and maybe some nice Diwali discounts can make me close the deal too!

[sankarx2]

Interesting discussion.

1. XC40 mild hybrid - a good option with a good petrol engine, and a AISIN 8 speed auto. 5 year warranty and service included it will cost 55 lakh OTR Mumbai. Dealers seem uninterested in discussing discounts. Interiors aren't as good as Merc or BMW. Mild hybrid adds more complication and to cost. Does it have commensurate benefit?

At 5 lakh more, there is XC40 Recharge, which will also come with 360 degree camera. Keyless entry is there in both versions. But XC40 Recharge is not meant for unplanned long drives.

Fresh look. Very imposing road presence are bonus for both versions. Its owned by the Chinese.

2. The GLA from Merc is very fresh. The interior is, as someone else said, nightclubb-ish. Very fancy. 220D will be around 55 lakh OTR Mumbai. Engine and gearbox has 8 year warranty which is fantastic. But 360 degree camera and keyless entry is missing!!! Yes, even at this price.

The DCT is wet clutch (?) type. But a DCT is not as reliable as the AISIL TC unit that's there in the Volvo and the X1.

3. The X1's downside is there is a 3 series which is better in all respect, and the fact that the all new x1 is about to arrive in 3 months. The x1 is looked down upon by enthusiasts.

But, if you look at the core engineering of cars in this small crossover luxury category, this is the best car. 2 liter diesel with AISIN transmission is the best combination there will be. I have doubts whether from next version onwards they will have this combination.

Of the three cars in contention, its possible to get some discount in this one. Its possible to bring down the OTR to 49 lakh for x line (excl finance, trade in, corporate discounts) or lower. The new version, almost certainly, will cost more than 55 lakh OTR Mumbai. May be a couple of lakh more.

Just like Recharge makes the vanilla XC40 look plain, a 3 series makes x1 look unexciting. But it comes with a fantastic engine and gearbox (3 comes with ZF) that won't be out of place in a large proper SUV. Also in Mumbai floods the 3 is more likely to give you a panic attack with a hydrostatic lock. And, I think the bad roads of Mumbai are just torture for the 3 shocks, engine mounts, stabiliser boots etc. Maybe, just maybe, x1 is the best tradeoff between driving purity and survival.

Note that the petrol X1 doesn't have the AISIN gearbox. Its a Getrag DCT. Wet clutch type. Minus the 8 year warranty of Merc. For a DCT, I think longer warranty is necessary.

Lux marks are taking advantage of exchange rate, taxes, shortage of supply and prices are increasing. Its one life. There will always be a better new version coming. There won't ever be an end of it.

I hope I have (along with fellow BHPians) been able to confuse you further. Do let us know if you are able to get the dealers to bend backwards in giving you a good deal.

[Lux_Noob]

Originally Posted by sankarx2

Interesting discussion.

1. XC40 mild hybrid - a good option with a good petrol engine, and a AISIN 8 speed auto. 5 year warranty and service included it will cost 55 lakh OTR Mumbai. Dealers seem uninterested in discussing discounts. Interiors aren't as good as Merc or BMW. Mild hybrid adds more complication and to cost. Does it have commensurate benefit?

At 5 lakh more, there is XC40 Recharge, which will also come with 360 degree camera. Keyless entry is there in both versions. But XC40 Recharge is not meant for unplanned long drives.

Fresh look. Very imposing road presence are bonus for both versions. Its owned by the Chinese.

2. The GLA from Merc is very fresh. The interior is, as someone else said, nightclubb-ish. Very fancy. 220D will be around 55 lakh OTR Mumbai. Engine and gearbox has 8 year warranty which is fantastic. But 360 degree camera and keyless entry is missing!!! Yes, even at this price.

The DCT is wet clutch (?) type. But a DCT is not as reliable as the AISIL TC unit that's there in the Volvo and the X1.

3. The X1's downside is there is a 3 series which is better in all respect, and the fact that the all new x1 is about to arrive in 3 months. The x1 is looked down upon by enthusiasts.

But, if you look at the core engineering of cars in this small crossover luxury category, this is the best car. 2 liter diesel with AISIN transmission is the best combination there will be. I have doubts whether from next version onwards they will have this combination.

Of the three cars in contention, its possible to get some discount in this one. Its possible to bring down the OTR to 49 lakh for x line (excl finance, trade in, corporate discounts) or lower. The new version, almost certainly, will cost more than 55 lakh OTR Mumbai. May be a couple of lakh more.

Just like Recharge makes the vanilla XC40 look plain, a 3 series makes x1 look unexciting. But it comes with a fantastic engine and gearbox (3 comes with ZF) that won't be out of place in a large proper SUV. Also in Mumbai floods the 3 is more likely to give you a panic attack with a hydrostatic lock. And, I think the bad roads of Mumbai are just torture for the 3 shocks, engine mounts, stabiliser boots etc. Maybe, just maybe, x1 is the best tradeoff between driving purity and survival.

Note that the petrol X1 doesn't have the AISIN gearbox. Its a Getrag DCT. Wet clutch type. Minus the 8 year warranty of Merc. For a DCT, I think longer warranty is necessary.

Lux marks are taking advantage of exchange rate, taxes, shortage of supply and prices are increasing. Its one life. There will always be a better new version coming. There won't ever be an end of it.

I hope I have (along with fellow BHPians) been able to confuse you further. Do let us know if you are able to get the dealers to bend backwards in giving you a good deal.

Thanks Sankarx2. I appreciate these insights as I am someone who doesn’t understand these technical terms very well or even know about them. For instance, my preference for X1 engine was simply based on refinement factor (less noisy engine on the outside) than the engine reliability! So this is helpful.

As for the mild Hybrid XC40 - I did not go looking for this version specifically. I actually saw an offer on Kifsvolvo where the outgoing model was available for ~1.2 lac lower than the current model’s discounted (hassle free offer) price which would have implied a <50 lac OTR for me (my imaginary budget Laxman Rekha!). But by the time I went to the showroom, that stock had been cleared. Having said that, I was able to test drive a T4 vehicle and then then got to do a TD of the B4 this week and I felt the B4 engine to be peppier (not by a mile though, but mild as they say). And to a non-enginehead like me, I will be surprised if people can tell a day/night difference between this one and the GLA/X1 while driving on congested roads in Mumbai. Maybe these differences are understood by more discerning heads but I found all 3 cars to be in the same ballpark/fun enough. In B4,I appreciate the changes in the front (sharper lights and fog lamp) which give the car a meaner stance, and the stock google map integration is also a plus. Net, I am fine paying up the extra 1.2 for these. In a picture, XC40 interior looks less interesting than GLA/X1 but somehow if you get into the car actually, it still feels very premium and classy and you do not feel that you are trying to justify the interior luxury just because you are paying up 50 big ones. Maybe it is just the vibe of getting inside a very good looking car makes you feel better, I do not know but that is how I felt. Only negative on the B4 vs the T4 which I could make out was the braking. Upon accelerating hard and then trying to brake suddenly, the B4 seemed to brake more slowly/progressively than the T4 and made me a bit nervous for a moment. Maybe it has something to do with them trying to utilise braking to recharge the battery etc. On pricing, it is disappointing to get further confirmation that Volvo folks are not interested in discount discussions but I will try it nonetheless upon my next meeting. I do not have an idea about the incremental maintenance hassles of a mild hybrid, so thanks for bringing that up. Will pick their brains in my next meeting. The recharge is out of contention given the extra money and highway trip tension of losing charge etc.

I have given my thoughts on GLA and X1 in my previous posts on this thread, and I have not been able to push either of them on pricing any further than stated earlier. The attraction towards the dated X1 for me was primarily a bumper deal given generation change, but these are unfavourable times from a buyer perspective with supply chain issues etc, I guess. This probably would be the worst year to buy a new car (certainly in the luxury segment) I guess as with central banks around the developed markets trying to cool the economy would imply better situation next year but that may not be 3 months but 12 months from now, so a long wait.
On 3 series - Yes a 3 series felt a lot more cool and while sitting inside one in the showroom, for a moment I forgot about the same issues I had in my mind (low GC on Mumbai roads) plus relatively tougher ingress/egress for me. However, upon inquiring on the price, an OTR of ~60 lacs gave me instant clarity thankfully .

[Lux_Noob]

Originally Posted by sankarx2

But, if you look at the core engineering of cars in this small crossover luxury category, this is the best car. 2 liter diesel with AISIN transmission is the best combination there will be. I have doubts whether from next version onwards they will have this combination.

Does it make sense to go for diesel options (even for luxury brands) given the general downtrend related to increasingly harsher regulations on this fuel? I understand the “torquey” fun aspect and the financial aspect that there is a slightly higher cost to maintain but possibly offset by better mileage and lower fuel costs, though one may never recoup the upfront higher cost of these vehicles compared to their petrol versions.

[sankarx2]

If you are a spirited driver diesel still makes sense. For a sedate driver petrol does as good. In some brands the diesel engine+gearbox combo is better than their petrol counterpart and vice versa, in terms of reliability. Like the BMW 2 liter diesel + zF or Aisin combo.

There is an element of personal preference too. The sound, the power delivery and the feel.

[Shonith]

Originally Posted by write2sourav

Decided not to go ahead with luxury cars as they are not worth the price. The 3 series is beyond budget and the other Mercedes and BMW X1 are not worth the money (considering X1 is the outgoing model now). Have come down a notch below and looking for SUV's. Comparing between Tata Harrier, upcoming Tucson and the Jeep top models (all Diesel versions)

If you look at the X1 and then the X3, the X3 will obviously feel more spacious and luxurious, that's how these cars are made irrespective of whether it's BMW, Mercedes, audi. This trend continuous across the range. For someone who has budget in crores he may not even consider the X1 or X3. He might go for the X7 or the 7 series. Luxury cars are mostly bought for the brand value and that's the major factor which contributes to buying a luxury car. You don't buy a luxury car for its value for money quotient.
You don't find people saying "I like BMW X1 because it's interior is better than a fortuner's". You find people looking for a "luxury car" because that's what brands like BMW, MERC, AUDI are associated with and not huyndai, jeep, skoda and VW.

If I was in your place I would wait till the mid of 2023 till BMW launches the new X1 and take a test drive. I would set a budget and test drive C class, 3 series, gla, xc40 and then decide if I am happy with any of them. If not I would then move on to cars like jeep, hyundai, tata, vw, skoda.

This is just how I view a luxury brand.

[Lux_Noob]

Originally Posted by sankarx2

If you are a spirited driver diesel still makes sense. For a sedate driver petrol does as good. In some brands the diesel engine+gearbox combo is better than their petrol counterpart and vice versa, in terms of reliability. Like the BMW 2 liter diesel + zF or Aisin combo.

There is an element of personal preference too. The sound, the power delivery and the feel.

Yes, I got the reliability point from your earlier post on the X1’s AISIN gearbox. After an elimination process, I had narrowed down to outgoing bmw x1 but there was only diesel left. While I prefer petrol for lesser engine sound on the outside, this is a fairly digestible issue given the superior gearbox quality as mentioned by you as well as added torque (which is not needed for my driving mostly, but who minds extra stuff). However, upon going through this forum’s discussion on diesel vs petrol, my best guess was for sedate driving and daily running, diesel engines may be a pain to maintain. Especially with the BS6 norms and arrival of DPF, one needs to make sure the car is taken for a “highway” type run every now and then to clear the DPF. There was no conclusive argument on the forum if cars which use ADblue/SCR require this exercise or not. If they do then the diesel x1 is pain no matter how good the gearbox maybe. My daily running is limited to <15 km and in my current manual, I spend <20% of time in 4th gear (forget 5th), which means the diesel engine/gearbox may not be very happy after some time. Add to that, the pressure of being outlawed by NGT anytime (though living in Mumbai is lower risk from this angle of air pollution regulations probably) made me chicken out from this choice. Not sure if I had the right information/understanding but in such situations going forward is difficult unless there is clarity.

[sankarx2]

I went ahead with x1 diesel. I had the same concerns. My driving is also limited. My previous car, a 320D did just 65000 km in 12 years.

The experience with the 320D made me biased towards diesel. I have driven the x1 for barely 1000km so far but I was pleasantly surprised to get a fuel economy of 11.7 kmpl in city. I mostly drive in eco mode. Thats how good the engine and gearbox is.

I didnt go for the petrol since I had concerns on the DCT gearbox and more importantly the mileage. Maintaining this diesel may not be that difficult unless its 10-12 years old.

But your concerns about the NGT rules are valid. In India anything is possible as car buyers are seen by the system as sinners. So they may do anything.

About excess power, trust me, you wont feel its excess after a few months. In highways and while overtaking this power will instill confidence. I would have thought over 300 bhp as too much. This 190 bhp is just right.

[Lux_Noob]

Originally Posted by sankarx2

I went ahead with x1 diesel. I had the same concerns. My driving is also limited. My previous car, a 320D did just 65000 km in 12 years.

That is indeed close to my car driving use case. Did you buy the car pre-BS6? If not, have you faced the chore of receiving a DPF warning and then having to clear it? With just 1000km run, maybe you haven’t but I wanted to check if you have any info/views?

[Lux_Noob]

And separately, I assume you had an auto-hold functionality in your previous BMW which the X1 is devoid of? Is the workaround simply holding the Electronic parking brake while still being on D gear when stopping at short signals or traffic? While I have always driven a manual, I was very much looking for the auto-hold feature which is missing in the X1 though pulling the EPB seems an okay enough workaround rather than putting the gear in neutral first every time which will remind me of my manual days.

[sankarx2]

When I bought the car, the DPF thing was not in my mind. Somehow, I never came across this. Now after your post I did come across some threads.

I may be wring but my understanding is that my 320D did have DPF as BMW started in 2004 and in Europe it was already mandatory in 2009. What BS6 added was adblue and not DPF (this needs confirmation). If it did, I didnt face any issue with DPF.

As for the hold function since I didnt have it in the previous car, I do not feel as if I am missing anything. I simply find using the foot brake pedal more reassuring. In a aisin or a zf auto (liquid coupling) you can simply leave it in D at signal or while idling. (You shouldnt do that in a Benz DCT in certain circumstances such as crawling uphill). Hence, I dont bother about EPB too while idling. I dont find removing my right foot from pedals of much use.