[holyshash]

Originally Posted by AMG Power

There are several threads on this subject warning against buying old german cars. Take a look at this one:

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-...ake-sense.html (Looking for a used daily driver under 5 lakhs | Does buying a 10-year old German make sense?)

From the thread:




While the thread included suggestions on a loan component, the rest of the advice remains very very relevant.

After reading that thread I understand how the 'Pre-owned german' thing works. But I would like to add that my budget is 30L, while I am aware that these vehicles cost a lot to keep running, I dont have an issue with the
maintenance cost rather the cost of repairing a broken part is the hiccup.

I already own a Verna 1.5MPI MT petrol and a Breeza Diesel ZDI+ MT. While I don't drive the breeza daily, I do drive the Verna daily and let me tell you, even though its a manual it doesn't last me long enough. I refuel my tank for aprox 4k, and my daily usage is hardly 25-30km. I drive on low speed (max 75kmph) and my RPMs never go above 1.8-2.0. Yet the fuel only lasts me about 6-7 days. Whereas I drove the E220 W212 and filled 1500 worth of diesel in it, it lasted me for 3 days with roughly 270kms driven. I was amazed seeing that a automatic lasted for so long (again ik diesels give better FE) wheres my manual literally feels like hell to drive. Heck I even floored the E220 while driving, which is not the case for verna. Hence I felt like owning a german would cost me less on FE and would be fun to drive a RWD too.

I can try to find me a JDM car as they are the most reliable piece of engineering. I looked for a LX470 J100 and found a few, but those are SUVs and wont do the things which I want to do. I even read Harjeev's whole review on the ownership of his HDJ80 LC. A 350z could do the job or a LS400 '97 too. But those are quite hard to find in a good condition once again.

Originally Posted by lamborghini

I've seen the listing for the RS5 that you're talking about. There are several in that price bracket - 2012 with the 4.2V8, and then there are several facelift S4 & S5 with the 3.0TSi which go up to 40L, and several newer gen 2017 onwards S5 which are 50L+
If you're open to diesels - the 640D Gran Coupe seems like your calling as well!

All this being said, all of these cars are way above my comfort levels though you seem to know your vehicles well.
Do inspect all of these cars properly, find a good independent mechanic who can help you maintain the vehicle well and at affordable rates, and keep a bunch of change aside for maintenance!

Those S/RS5's are way out my budget. But the one I am talking about seems fishy from the price point. I could try to contact the seller and get more details and get a final quote for it.

I also looked into a 650i with low km's. It was appealing as well. 640d is also to considered if I don't end up buying any of the above. Those are one of the best coupes according to all the reviews on google while being compared the CLS or A7. Thanks for the suggestion btw.

I have a local mechanic near my place and he does this type of jobs. He fixes and tunes german cars and I had a chat with him. He told me he would be more then happy to help me maintain whatever car I decide to buy, while suggesting me not buy a V8 as they are a bit costlier to maintain and I should avoid getting a used one. If you are in Ahmedabad you should have a look at his boss' F10 M5. Its been lying there for almost 6+ years, he told me that the shop owner owns that car and the V8 came up with a problem and hence its not reparable unless you spend a fortune to fix the engine.

[Tvk1991]

The AUDI A8 was on sale for 2+ years. I have seen photos of its air-suspension completely slammed.

The best options I would consider are: RS5, E89 Z4, E90 M3s, CLA/GLA 45 AMG, C43 AMG and W222 S500.

640D is a good option as well.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by holyshash

Those S/RS5's are way out my budget. But the one I am talking about seems fishy from the price point. I could try to contact the seller and get more details and get a final quote for it.

I also looked into a 650i with low km's. It was appealing as well. 640d is also to considered if I don't end up buying any of the above. Those are one of the best coupes according to all the reviews on google while being compared the CLS or A7. Thanks for the suggestion btw.

I didn't suggest the 650i because the 4.4V8 in the 650i isn't the most reliable, and the same for the M running the same engine IIRC.

There are facelift S5 3.0TSi available in your budget, but for the yellow RS5 the pricing seems in line with others of similar vintage. In fact, I may even urge you to check out the others first before this particular example - the wrap looks awful in pictures and it is super important to buy a clean car - it may have mods but needs to be planned and executed well.

Just another addition to your list, the XF-R with the Supercharged V8.

Regarding mechanic - always find reviews, see the work that he's done. A small mistake can cost a fortune to fix in this segment.
Ideally if this is your first European and you are not very hands on with the maintenance / have a tried and tested mechanic - go with something a little newer and more reliable even if it will not be as powerful : Say a first owner 530D, 330i, etc.

EDIT:
There are also some fun enthusiast cars in in your budget that I would at least take for a test drive - this tuned BHPian owned 116i; one of the best and most chuckable BMW's ever made - this E90 330i with an in line 6; etc.
What I've realized is that there are powerful cars, and there are fun to drive cars. They both don't always go hand in hand.

[Arnav612]

I wouldn't recommend going for a full size luxury limousine with the intent of tuning and going slideways. If you're anyways investing in mods, go for a tame mainstream variant like the C200/E200 of the last generation and go all out. Barges like the S-Class/7-Series will be consuming enough moolah for their own mechanicals in due course, let alone the mods.

Although, If this is your supposed to be your recreational project, don't block out diesels. Merc E350 and BMW 530d are droolworthy sedans with fantastic luxury value and mod potential. And you will now find dime a dozen of these well within your budget.

[Arnav612]

On another thought, how about an early CLA 45 AMG? It's literally a pocket rocket with fantastic fun-friendly dimensions, and is a looker too.

Check this out : https://www.olx.in/item/mercedes-ben...iid-1743088315

[Iyencar]

Originally Posted by holyshash

I already own a Verna 1.5MPI MT petrol and a Breeza Diesel ZDI+ MT. While I don't drive the breeza daily, I do drive the Verna daily and let me tell you, even though its a manual it doesn't last me long enough. I refuel my tank for aprox 4k, and my daily usage is hardly 25-30km. I drive on low speed (max 75kmph) and my RPMs never go above 1.8-2.0. Yet the fuel only lasts me about 6-7 days. Whereas I drove the E220 W212 and filled 1500 worth of diesel in it, it lasted me for 3 days with roughly 270kms driven. I was amazed seeing that a automatic lasted for so long (again ik diesels give better FE) wheres my manual literally feels like hell to drive. Heck I even floored the E220 while driving, which is not the case for verna. Hence I felt like owning a german would cost me less on FE and would be fun to drive a RWD too.

You’re comparing apples and oranges. The E is a big diesel which is going to be strained very less with your driving style. Not to mention the tank size is also much larger on the E vs the Verna which is why you had to fuel up sooner on the latter. You really need to do a tank to tank calculation and arrive at exact figures.

Hence I felt like owning a german would cost me less on FE

I seriously doubt this. Please look around the forum for some actual FE figures on the large V6 and V8 petrols.

[holyshash]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

I didn't suggest the 650i because the 4.4V8 in the 650i isn't the most reliable, and the same for the M running the same engine IIRC.

There are facelift S5 3.0TSi available in your budget, but for the yellow RS5 the pricing seems in line with others of similar vintage. In fact, I may even urge you to check out the others first before this particular example - the wrap looks awful in pictures and it is super important to buy a clean car - it may have mods but needs to be planned and executed well.

Just another addition to your list, the XF-R with the Supercharged V8.

Regarding mechanic - always find reviews, see the work that he's done. A small mistake can cost a fortune to fix in this segment.
Ideally if this is your first European and you are not very hands on with the maintenance / have a tried and tested mechanic - go with something a little newer and more reliable even if it will not be as powerful : Say a first owner 530D, 330i, etc.

EDIT:
There are also some fun enthusiast cars in in your budget that I would at least take for a test drive - this tuned BHPian owned 116i; one of the best and most chuckable BMW's ever made - this E90 330i with an in line 6; etc.
What I've realized is that there are powerful cars, and there are fun to drive cars. They both don't always go hand in hand.

Okay then the 50i is out of the topic. I tried all the sites trying to find
a S/RS5 that fits in my budget but I did not find any apart from the neon one. It does look like it has mods too.

I should try looking for a XF-R now that you have suggested that. The jaguar
showroom here in Ahmedabad has a blue one sitting there but theres a
word around saying that the XF-R is not for sale and had something to do with the late son of the showroom's owner. Although I can go there and ask the representatives present there.

The 530d is again, the best car for my needs but 'DIESEL' is what's stopping
me :(

I will look into that 330i, thankyou./

Originally Posted by Arnav612

I wouldn't recommend going for a full size luxury limousine with the intent of tuning and going slideways. If you're anyways investing in mods, go for a tame mainstream variant like the C200/E200 of the last generation and go all out. Barges like the S-Class/7-Series will be consuming enough moolah for their own mechanicals in due course, let alone the mods.

Although, If this is your supposed to be your recreational project, don't block out diesels. Merc E350 and BMW 530d are droolworthy sedans with fantastic luxury value and mod potential. And you will now find dime a dozen of these well within your budget.

The W205 C200 is also a worthy opponent for the CLS. I did find a C200 with low km's on the ODO. I can consider one of those too, plus they are a better option than an old W204.

I would buy a E200 but I want a W213 and not a W212 if I am going for a 200. The W213 E200 with an AMG kit and de-chromed grill and other parts, it would look sinister. But those are way out of my budget. If only I could change the budget band.

Everybody here is suggesting the 530d, once again, I can give it a thought.

Originally Posted by Iyencar

You’re comparing apples and oranges. The E is a big diesel which is going to be strained very less with your driving style. Not to mention the tank size is also much larger on the E vs the Verna which is why you had to fuel up sooner on the latter. You really need to do a tank to tank calculation and arrive at exact figures.


I seriously doubt this. Please look around the forum for some actual FE figures on the large V6 and V8 petrols.

I might be wrong, but I compared the amount of money I used for both the cars. While the E-Class lasted for 3 days with a high km count just on rs1500 worth of diesel, the Verna doesn't last the same with almost half the km's driven. I am unaware of the difference between the fuel type so I might be wrong about this. From my point of view, the verna consumes more fuel compared to the E-class when refilled with the same amount of money, regardless of it being a manual and also being driven way more gently than the E-class.

Thankyou for the suggestion, pardon me if I am wrong.

[sandeepmohan]

Among that lot, the safest is the Mercedes E350. The only thing exciting about it is being able to see the 3 pointed star up front when you drive. When it comes to the drive, its more a barge. A very comfortable one. You'll barely feel a thing on our new and improved expressways.

Also, I'd set aside another 10 lacs for the upkeep of the car cause if anything does break (...and it will), you'll be pulling your hair out.

Find a good independent garage and get the car thoroughly inspected. Pay the chap whatever he or she wants for an inspection. A low odometer reading, even if its not rigged, cannot tell you the whole story. There is age going against them.

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by holyshash

Okay then the 50i is out of the topic. I tried all the sites trying to find
a S/RS5 that fits in my budget but I did not find any apart from the neon one. It does look like it has mods too.

Here are some more RS5 with a similar budget around Mumbai:

1. Red Color

2. Blue color

3. White Color Facelift

But once again, I urge you to tread carefully unless you are technically experienced in trouble shooting, sourcing parts, etc.
Any of these cars - Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar can be a financial and mental nightmare. One of the reasons I myself have never taken the jump despite having access to a couple good independent mechanics.

If you don't have the bandwidth / skills, I would implore you find something newer, more reliable, easier to maintain and keep some funds for maintenance!
Heck, a vRS230 of a F30 330i could be something to explore and definitely more fun than any C200/E200/E350(NA) that you're considering.

[holyshash]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Here are some more RS5 with a similar budget around Mumbai:

1. Red Color

2. Blue color

3. White Color Facelift

But once again, I urge you to tread carefully unless you are technically experienced in trouble shooting, sourcing parts, etc.
Any of these cars - Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar can be a financial and mental nightmare. One of the reasons I myself have never taken the jump despite having access to a couple good independent mechanics.

If you don't have the bandwidth / skills, I would implore you find something newer, more reliable, easier to maintain and keep some funds for maintenance!
Heck, a vRS230 of a F30 330i could be something to explore and definitely more fun than any C200/E200/E350(NA) that you're considering.

Thankyou for going out of your way and finding those listings. I looked at all 3 of them and found the blue one to be perfect, because the other 2 are 3rd owners already, and one can never know what a car with so many owners could have.

I understand the financial part and I am ready to bare the expenses if they are reasonable. The mechanic I was talking about, is trustworthy and I know he can get the job done.

Theres a friend of friend who owns a F30 330i here in ahmedabad. I heard that his car is for sale too. Its a red/orange-ish 330i with a pretty set of wheels and a loud exhaust.

For now I had chat with the seller of CLS350, I asked her for service records which I should receive today by the end of the day and also negotiated for the price, from 22L to 20L, this way I can have a spare 10L with me for various work needed or any future problems.

I can now also look into that blue RS5 lamborghini stated.

[hrk997]

I am invested in this thread as I too have been wondering about the exact same options. Various W222 S classes are hitting the market. I saw an S500 listed for 55L and i haven't slept since. In a few months, there will be another years worth of depreciation. If it can be had around the 40L mark, it's a pretty good car for another 5 years. The maintenance costs can be managed, the part replacement costs cannot.

While some have suggested sports cars instead of luxoBarages, i find the top end S classes to offer the most complete experiences. While sports cars handle great, I've seldom found roads to put their cornering prowess to the test. I'm quite happy to have a fast 0-100 in a straight stretches and a car that can do that with aplomb is a win in my books. Both the W221 and W222 S500s have a lot going for them. Finding the right one at the right price is the hunt.

I would suggest you plan for a jan - march purchase to cash in on the depreciation. At this price point, opt for a v8 rather than a v6 if you can. V8s are a rare breed now and will get rarer in the coming years. I mean, the c43 amg is now 2L engine, what even...

[holyshash]

Originally Posted by hrk997

I am invested in this thread as I too have been wondering about the exact same options. Various W222 S classes are hitting the market. I saw an S500 listed for 55L and i haven't slept since. In a few months, there will be another years worth of depreciation. If it can be had around the 40L mark, it's a pretty good car for another 5 years. The maintenance costs can be managed, the part replacement costs cannot.

While some have suggested sports cars instead of luxoBarages, i find the top end S classes to offer the most complete experiences. While sports cars handle great, I've seldom found roads to put their cornering prowess to the test. I'm quite happy to have a fast 0-100 in a straight stretches and a car that can do that with aplomb is a win in my books. Both the W221 and W222 S500s have a lot going for them. Finding the right one at the right price is the hunt.

I would suggest you plan for a jan - march purchase to cash in on the depreciation. At this price point, opt for a v8 rather than a v6 if you can. V8s are a rare breed now and will get rarer in the coming years. I mean, the c43 amg is now 2L engine, what even...

55L for a S is good, but which make year? If its a W222 then it could be a good option but an early manufactured car could have a ton of issues. You can also look for a S400, that V6-BiTurbo is a good engine too if you are looking for something quick. Parts availability should not be a headache because there are many W222's in India and one can always get parts from a donor car.

A full on sports car will not be the perfect fit for us, if you are also looking for a car which is in middle of both the worlds. It will be too quick and too expensive to have fun while keeping a check on budget. There are many different cars in the range of 40L if that's your budget, and if you need a quick 0-100 car as suggested above, look for a RS5, M3, XFR with a little high km's on the ODO.

I really want to buy a CLS and the one I had my eyes on, the seller did not respond well and I didn't want to waste my money flying over to Delhi before looking into the service history. Hence it got sold. It was the perfect car with low kilometres and in a clean condition.

I will keep the hunt going and hope to find a good example once again with a GOOD seller who is responsive.

Also there is a S63 W221 for sale in classifieds with a price tag of 45L, you can check that out too if you want to.

[holyshash]

After searching for a while, I have failed to find any good example of a car that meets my needs. Fellow BHPians suggested to me look for a diesel, considering that I searched for a diesel car. My first option was the 530d f10. Although it is a popular car in the second hand market, I was unable to find a good first owner car online. I did find one in the TeamBHP classifieds but the price is too much for a 8 year old car, it is priced at 48L. I may be wrong but from one more example I found the price is too much for this particular one. A E/C Class is also a viable option, but I am still looking for a cheap W213 E300. As for C, I have a C300 priced at 38L and it sounds appealing but a little out of my budget. The 530d seems to be the option for me. Is it a good car to go sideways sometimes and accelerate quickly when needed? I did read a little bit on GTO's thread and I understood the maintenance and repair cost is high but I can manage it. Should I go for a 530d? And if yes, what price should I be looking at for a first owner 530d? If anybody has any leads for one of these on sale, feel free to drop the link. Thankyou.

Also if there are any other cars I can have a look at, please do tell me.

[bigbearddriver]

I would highly recommend you to not opt for the Audi A8. The first year maintenance could cost you easily close to 5-7 lakhs. Consider an other annual maintenance cost of 2-3 lakhs.

Also, avoid any car with air suspension if possible. The most modern and sophisticated air suspension systems would also fail on Indian roads.

Hope you make the right choice.

Cheers!

[JunkyardHunter]

As an owner of a W221 Biturbo myself, go for it! A seamless blend of comfort, great looks and bucketloads of power make it an amazing deal. We paid ~19 lakhs for ours.