[MindFreak9874]

Originally Posted by Clown Prince

well maintained Octavia

Originally Posted by AJ56

Camry hybrid. You’ll get these well under 30L, 25-28L ideally for single owner, low mile cars.

Thanks! That's very tempting, but hard to find, and beyond budget.

I also don't feel like I can manage a used car right now.

Originally Posted by 07CR

Seltos 1.5 Turbo. I know the latest model is not crash tested

I have driven the Seltos, albeit with the 1.5 NA engine. I understand your point about the crash tests, however, regardless, for me having that as a requirement also means it's easy to narrow down the list, amongst other things.

Otherwise the Creta N-Line was also on my initial list, and perhaps even the i20 N-Line given I do fit in that well, but that just increases the confusion further, and makes things murkier.

This is easy, NCAP Rating -> on the list, No or low rating -> off the list.

I always liked the Syros for everything it has to offer, but had excluded it mainly because of safety (and somewhat the price), and it's only back on the list because of the crash test results.

Thanks!

[07CR]

Originally Posted by MindFreak9874

I have driven the Seltos, albeit with the 1.5 NA engine. I understand your point about the crash tests, however, regardless, for me having that as a requirement also means it's easy to narrow down the list, amongst other things.

Otherwise the Creta N-Line was also on my initial list, and perhaps even the i20 N-Line given I do fit in that well, but that just increases the confusion further, and makes things murkier.

This is easy, NCAP Rating -> on the list, No or low rating -> off the list.

You mentioned Fun to drive as one of the main criteria. The 1.5 NA engine is anything but fun. The 1.5 turbo is world's apart and the fastest ICE car below the 50L mark.

Sure it may add to your confusion, but some early confusion for few days is OK, compared to lifelong regret of missing out on something! Hence, just a test drive definitely won't hurt. I personally hate the new Creta due to severe equipment misses compared to the Seltos, but if the N line is also a good fun to drive machine. Hence test drive both.

[OpenRoads]

Originally Posted by MindFreak9874

• Upto 20L ex-showroom, although slightly over is ok.
• Fun to drive.
• Good for tall people, say 6' - 6'2".
• Seat 4 adults comfortably. I'd have said 5 but that doesn't leave many options.
• Decent boot space.
• Automatic (DCT or TC), Petrol.
• Good Safety rating, quite important. Crash tests are the way, so GNCAP/BNCAP rating. 5 stars, ideally.

In this bracket you get a lot of options. Here is how I would look at it.

1. Taigun GT 1.5 DSG / Kushaq Sportline 1.5L TSI DSG
OR Virtus GT 1.5 TSI DSG /Slavia Sportline 1.5L TSI DSG

a. 1.5L TSI EVO with ACT engine, 148 BHP, 250 Nm
b. 179mm ground clearance for the sedan and 188 for the box.
c. 521 ltrs for sedan and 385 ltrs for the box.

Fun to drive objective is usually met here and it checks the other boxes as well.
Looks wise I personally like Virtus. The only downside is the maintenance cost which would be a tad bit higher than its peers in the long run.

2. Creta SX (O) 1.5 Turbo DCT

a. 1.5l Turbo GDi engine, 158 BHP, 253 Nm
b. 190mm ground clearance .
c. 433 ltrs boot space

This is what a packaged deal looks like. Its sorted in all aspects except 3 start rating. This is pretty much bread n butter for Hyundai.

3. Honda Elevate

a. 1.5 i-VTEC with VTC engine, 119 BHP, 145 Nm
b. 220 mm ground clearance .
c. 458 ltrs boot space

No fuss car however Honda launched it quite late in the game with the same city engine. Fun to drive might take a backseat here.

4. Toyota Hyryder/ Suzuki Grand Vitara (strong hybrid)

a. Hybrid engine with eCVT gearbox, 115 BHP, 141 Nm (its complicated or questionable but does the job)
b. 210 mm ground clearance .
c. 260 ltrs boot space

Weakest of all (maybe in terms of interiors and puny boot space) but gives a stellar mileage which would put diesel cars to shame.

[MindFreak9874]

Originally Posted by 07CR

... Hence test drive both.

I mentioned fun to drive, but I also mentioned a high safety rating! As such, I'm not considering any fun to drive options which don't have a safety rating. And that's a lot more objective, vs fun to drive which can be slightly subjective.

Syros definitely doesn't sound fun to drive based on reviews, but it fits all of the other requirements, so I figured I might as well give it a try. If not fun, would definitely skip.

The thing about the safety rating reducing options is that ideally all cars would have safety ratings. In the absence of that, it helps me reduce the list to keep it manageable - the requirement still stands, this is more of an added benefit.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by OpenRoads

In this bracket you get a lot of options. Here is how I would look at it.
.

Thanks!

The first is really the only option here that fits, because the rest don't have a 5 star safety rating.

Otherwise the Creta N line is somewhat tempting, and so is the Hyryder, especially with the freshly updated AWD AT (even if it's only in the mild hybrid)

I definitely don't mind the maintenance costs or lower mileage, realising one can't have everything - those are the things I'm ok to put up with.

[OpenRoads]

Originally Posted by MindFreak9874

The first is really the only option here that fits, because the rest don't have a 5 star safety rating.

Otherwise the Creta N line is somewhat tempting, and so is the Hyryder, especially with the freshly updated AWD AT (even if it's only in the mild hybrid)

Yeah! Agreed with option 1. Do let us know which one you finally decide.

However,
1. Elevate did get 5 stars recently.
2. Mild hybrid version is just a beefed up Brezza with no real improvement. I was talking about the strong hybrid one. The eCVT transmission with the electric motor outshine the TC on mild hybrid.

[nsd9]

Though personally inclined towards Virtus GT, I feel XUV700 Petrol suits your requirement. 197bhp of power should satisfy your fun to drive quotient.
AX5 variant at ~20L ex-showroom has decent features including curtain airbags. If you can shed one more lakh(20.99 Ex-S), AX7 Petrol AT has more features(see image attached).

I would also recommend you to test drive VW Skoda twin sedans for the following reasons.
1) Fun to drive. Better handling. Good driving dynamics.
2) Quick & Smooth DSG (though many of us are uncertain about long term reliability)
3) Boot space of 521 litres.
4) Better GC compared to Verna/City, which is good enough to deal with bad roads.

[MindFreak9874]

Originally Posted by OpenRoads

1. Elevate did get 5 stars recently.
2. Mild hybrid version is just a beefed up Brezza with no real improvement. I was talking about the strong hybrid one. The eCVT transmission with the electric motor outshine the TC on mild hybrid.

1. Yeah, but one can't directly apply that here, so I'm still not considering that.
2. Fair enough, it's more the AWD that tempted me. The mild hybrid would eat up into the boot space, and for me from experience that's one thing that is a factor, so that's another reason to pass.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by nsd9

Though personally inclined towards Virtus GT, I feel XUV700 Petrol suits your requirement. 197bhp of power should satisfy your fun to drive quotient.

I agree, the XUV700 Petrol is definitely fun to drive!

However, I'd still go with the AX7 for the extra two airbags, and even get tempted for the AX7L for features such as a 360 camera.

Thanks!

--

I've done some more thinking, paired with a few test drives this weekend, and came to the following hopefully final list of cars to consider, in order:

1. Volkswagen Virtus 1.5 DSG: Need I say more? I did a test drive, and also ended up in the back seat for a bit, and the headroom wasn't an issue in practical terms. Yes I touch the roof if I sit totally straight, but a slight relaxation and it's fine. Given I won't use the back that much, I think that's fine, an acceptable compromise, all things considered.
2. Volkswagen Taigun 1.5 DSG: Only to have the full picture. It's in the showroom right next to the Virtus, feels like it's worth a shot. Shorter, but less boot space. Higher seating, remains to be seen if I like that. Test drive pending.
3. Hyundai Verna 1.5 DCT: Leaning a bit less towards this but I still want to consider it once, just to be sure. More features and cheaper., but over time I'm liking the looks less and less. Test drive pending.

Excluded from the previous list:

1. Kia Syros Petrol DCT: Feature rich, but I did a test drive of this as well, and I didn't like it much at all. I guess I should've seen that coming.The Sonet with the same powertrain is far more potent.
2. XUV7OO AX7/AX7L Petrol AT: The high price, and on top of that the petrol mileage concerns (mainly higher running costs), make it tough to stomach for me currently financially. Any one of the above cars and I'd still have one Comet's worth of money left over if going for the top model here, which is a lot! Skipping it purely for that reason. Helps avoid the SUV / sedan confusion too, otherwise it was hard given the family liked this more (and understandably so)

Skipping Skoda since I prefer the VW looks, although I'll definitely miss the various simply clever Skoda bit! Will test drive the remaining two myself, and with family before making a decision.

This thread (and Team-BHP in general) has been very helpful, thanks everyone!

[sapien]

Originally Posted by MindFreak9874

This thread (and Team-BHP in general) has been very helpful, thanks everyone!

I can talk about XUV since we got one last year, its extremely comfortable, feature loaded and powerful. Very sophisticated and safe as well. But, for it to be a fun drive, needs lot of open roads where an SUV this big can maneuver around.
Virtus, Taigun on the other hand are slightly narrower and have more sporty nature both suspension and engine, and safe as well. So they are a good fit for your requirements. Also, you may want to wait for VW version of Kylaq, might be called POLO !
Avoid India specific cars from Hyundai group if you have safety in mind, although Verna and Syros have scored well, they have been historically known to cut corners where customers can’t perceive.

[TheHelix0202]

Don’t buy a car for ADAS. Not in India at least. Pretty terrible choice.

Go for the Verna DCT if you like the suspension setup + power train combo. For a more driver-oriented experience, look no further than the Virtus DSG.

Don’t buy the XUV 700 if you have no use for the extra seats: you don’t need to be driving around in a barge in already crowded Indian streets.

[amtak]

Originally Posted by TheHelix0202

Don’t buy a car for ADAS. Not in India at least. Pretty terrible choice.

Go for the Verna DCT if you like the suspension setup + power train combo. For a more driver-oriented experience, look no further than the Virtus DSG.

Don’t buy the XUV 700 if you have no use for the extra seats: you don’t need to be driving around in a barge in already crowded Indian streets.

I beg to differ on the "dont buy a car for ADAS". One should instead choose it for ADAS. It is very easy to get distracted on Indian roads and after using an ADAS equipped car for over 2 years, I am very much inclined to say that buy one with it.

I haven't driven a Verna (current gen) so wont comment on it, but purely on looks, Slavia has my vote.

XUV - very much car like manners. Once you get use to the side, coupled with 360 degree cam, it is very easy to navigate through busy streets too.

[TheHelix0202]

Originally Posted by amtak

I beg to differ on the "dont buy a car for ADAS". One should instead choose it for ADAS. It is very easy to get distracted on Indian roads and after using an ADAS equipped car for over 2 years, I am very much inclined to say that buy one with it.

I’m sorry to say this - if you’re easily distracted on our roads, you’re part of the problem and shouldn’t be behind the wheel (or handlebar).

[shifu]

Originally Posted by amtak

I beg to differ on the "dont buy a car for ADAS". One should instead choose it for ADAS. It is very easy to get distracted on Indian roads and after using an ADAS equipped car for over 2 years, I am very much inclined to say that buy one with it.

+1.

IMHO, ADAS will eventually become as important as a seat belt when it comes to safety. I have also grown to adjust my driving style to suit the algorithm.

In this day and age, if you have an option to buy a car equipped with ADAS within your budget, I would also vote for that option .

[MindFreak9874]

Originally Posted by sapien

Also, you may want to wait for VW version of Kylaq, might be called POLO !

That's going to be a bit too small for my current requirements.

Originally Posted by TheHelix0202

Don’t buy a car for ADAS. Not in India at least. Pretty terrible choice.

Go for the Verna DCT if you like the suspension setup + power train combo. For a more driver-oriented experience, look no further than the Virtus DSG.

Don’t buy the XUV 700 if you have no use for the extra seats: you don’t need to be driving around in a barge in already crowded Indian streets.

I agree with not buying a car just for ADAS, but it's a good addition. Especially with the reviews of the Hyundai/Kia implementation being pretty good, given the presence of a radar and camera.

The XUV7OO isn't that much bigger than the sedans here tbh. 4.7m vs 4.5m in length. It's definitely wider. I don't need the +2 seats at the back, but the bigger boot plus extra width would help to carry 5 and their luggage nicely. However, skipping it due to the price.

Originally Posted by amtak

I beg to differ on the "dont buy a car for ADAS". One should instead choose it for ADAS. It is very easy to get distracted on Indian roads and after using an ADAS equipped car for over 2 years, I am very much inclined to say that buy one with it.

I haven't driven a Verna (current gen) so wont comment on it, but purely on looks, Slavia has my vote.

XUV - very much car like manners. Once you get use to the side, coupled with 360 degree cam, it is very easy to navigate through busy streets too.

I haven't put ADAS as a requirement solely because that'd limit the options even further, instead I'm treating it as a nice to have for now.

Originally Posted by TheHelix0202

I’m sorry to say this - if you’re easily distracted on our roads, you’re part of the problem and shouldn’t be behind the wheel (or handlebar).

I don't think it's as simple as that. It could be a momentary distraction. It could be a temporary slip-up.

Originally Posted by shifu

+1.

IMHO, ADAS will eventually become as important as a seat belt when it comes to safety. I have also grown to adjust my driving style to suit the algorithm.

In this day and age, if you have an option to buy a car equipped with ADAS within your budget, I would also vote for that option .

Certain NCAP agencies already require some ADAS features such as AEB to have a full safety rating, which makes sense. It's good to slowly get used to it!

--

I did some more test drives.

The Verna was the first, and I didn't enjoy it too much, due to various reasons.
The ergonomics just don't work that well with my height. I have to keep the steering at it's highest position, and also pull it all the way out (to bring it higher that way as well), and put the seat low - just to be able to fit. It's comfortable once settled in, but ingress and egress aren't the best due to this.
Additionally, the acceleration doesn't bring that same smile that the VW 1.5 and even the XUV7OO did.
Finally, the brake feel just doesn't bring confidence.

I'm spoiled by the Comet on braking because it feels as if it has some of the sharpest brakes of the cars I've driven. Every time I drive some other car for a while, the first drive after that in the Comet always result in a harsh braking experience, before adjusting to the intensity. I've seen that catch out friends who drive it as well - it gets you the first time.

I drove the Taigun next, and then the Virtus back to back. All 3 were on the same route, and I did a ~45kmph-70kmph pull on all 3 (on a highway) - to compare the acceleration, and then braking afterwards.

The Virtus is definitely better than the Verna in the whole steering / ingress / egress part, even with the lack of rake adjustment.
Taigun is not an issue at all in that department, there's even more space.

I found it easier to find a somewhat comfortable seating position in the Taigun over the Virtus, but the pedals in the Taigun kept bothering me a bit.
The Virtus felt like I need to spend a lot more time to find a comfortable seating position - it's only minor adjustments really, it's not like it's uncomfortable. Something to figure out over time, even.

The Taigun is going to be better for the family for sure, given the higher seating position. But, it's not like the Virtus is super low.

I do prefer the Volkswagen looks over Skoda, for both cars. It's mainly the rear, and specifically the Skoda taillights that don't gel with me too much. And that helps with trimming the list.

Thus, the updated list.

1. Volkswagen Virtus 1.5 DSG: The heart wants what the heart wants. Really, really tempted to just go for it, and enjoy driving, and forget everything else.
2. Volkswagen Taigun 1.5 DSG: The mind keep pulling towards this ever so slightly, mainly due to the improvements in ergonomics. Ok with the boot space compromise given that, and otherwise it's all pretty similar.
3. Wait for facelifted Volkswagen Taigun 1.5 DSG: Might end up being tight for my timeline. Also unsure about getting a facelift day one.
4. Wait for facelifted Volkswagen Virtus 1.5 DSG: Last because this will be well after when I intend to get a car.

I feel like mostly going for the Virtus, however part of me keeps thinking - what if the Taigun is a better fit.

The upcoming facelifts are also what come to mind, but maybe a little bit less so - given the timeframe I have in mind, and some of the leaks so far.

From all the facelift rumors, likes: ADAS, Panaromic Sunroof. Dislikes: 8-speed TC (brand new transmission), the giant screen (based on the other cars in their stable - just not for me). Potential price increaase too.
One thought I had was potentially waiting for some more concrete rumors on the facelift, or even a launch of say the Kushaq (which I think would be the first) - and then that'd give one an idea of what to expect for the rest, from the points above. But that's unknown, and also a lot of uncertainty. Making me want to just go with the Virtus, tbh.

Appreciate forum members' inputs into this.

Thanks!

[car_guy1998]

I'd suggest you get the Virtus as the dynamics are much better than Taigun and moreover, being a sedan, you will feel less body roll when compared to a C-SUV or full size SUV.

Virtus 1.5 GT+ DSG Sport with blackened parts in Black colour is the droolworthy car to have in your garage and will standout among the crowd.

[MindFreak9874]

A picture is worth a thousand words. Here's two!





My Lava Blue Virtus GT Plus Sport DSG